dave mcbride Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/27/sports/football/former-giants-safety-tyler-sash-found-to-have-cte.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
4BillsintheBurgh Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 I hope we can develop a way to see the damage while the person is alive instead of having the posthumous diagnosis. Until that happens, football will be in danger of losing a lot of premium athletes to other sports.
dave mcbride Posted January 27, 2016 Author Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) I hope we can develop a way to see the damage while the person is alive instead of having the posthumous diagnosis. Until that happens, football will be in danger of losing a lot of premium athletes to other sports. Outside of the South and Texas, I strongly believe that this is already happening. Edited January 27, 2016 by dave mcbride
PlayoffsPlease Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Outside of the South and Texas, I strongly believe that this is already happening. Football will likely go the way of boxing. Its hard to believe now but from the Jack Dempsey era up until the Ali-Frazier battles, championship boxing bouts were as big as the super bowl is now. Muhammed Ali was considered the most recognizable man on earth. Now most posters don't even know who the heavy weight champion is. It is painful to watch high school football now when you personally know the individual students, knowing the risks their brains are at. It is not as fun as it used to be.
Chandler#81 Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Football will likely go the way of boxing. Its hard to believe now but from the Jack Dempsey era up until the Ali-Frazier battles, championship boxing bouts were as big as the super bowl is now. Muhammed Ali was considered the most recognizable man on earth. Now most posters don't even know who the heavy weight champion is. It is painful to watch high school football now when you personally know the individual students, knowing the risks their brains are at. It is not as fun as it used to be. Ya got me. WHO is the current Heavyweight Champ? I used to follow boxing avidly and once could recite all the Champions of the previous century. Still a fan of Ali. I haven't watched or followed it for years now..
DC Tom Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Ya got me. WHO is the current Heavyweight Champ? I used to follow boxing avidly and once could recite all the Champions of the previous century. Still a fan of Ali. I haven't watched or followed it for years now.. Aren't there something like eight Heavyweight Champs? That's one thing football has over boxing. Coherence. There's only one Superbowl, but how many title matches do you have to win in boxing to be world champ?
dave mcbride Posted January 27, 2016 Author Posted January 27, 2016 Aren't there something like eight Heavyweight Champs? That's one thing football has over boxing. Coherence. There's only one Superbowl, but how many title matches do you have to win in boxing to be world champ? Relegating everything to pay per view was instrumental in transforming boxing from a mass sport into a cult sport.
4BillsintheBurgh Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Outside of the South and Texas, I strongly believe that this is already happening. Maybe to a small extent, but I don't see it in my pittsburgh town yet. There are a couple kids that don't play football anymore but the top kids (who could possibly have a chance at the nfl) seem to remain with football. I have 11 and 13 year old boys that play soccer, so I see kids moving around and it's a small community so the kids have to play multiple sports.
Malazan Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Outside of the South and Texas, I strongly believe that this is already happening. I'd like to see numbers on it. Most of the articles I've seen are anecdotal and rely on the "Of course, it's happening" standard.
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Relegating everything to pay per view was instrumental in transforming boxing from a mass sport into a cult sport. This ^ Boxing certainly didn't decrease in popularity due to health concerns such as CTE. MMA has basically taken over the role boxing once had. The popularity of the MMA definitely proves that safety had nothing to do with the fall of boxing.
Mr. WEO Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 I hope we can develop a way to see the damage while the person is alive instead of having the posthumous diagnosis. Until that happens, football will be in danger of losing a lot of premium athletes to other sports. Why can't we assume every player will have evidence of CTE on autopsy. Jim Kelly, Thurman, Bruce will all have it. So will Brdy and all the Mannings (even Cooper). Every TV commentator who played has it--Boomer, Fouts, Simms, Aikman...you name him, he's got it. Yet so few demonstrate the supposed end effects of the autopsy finding. This guy was as low milage as an NFL player gets. He washed out of the league, has a chronic inujury and chronic pain and a narcotic addiction and likely overdosed. Not sure why every such case becomes "what will happen to football?".
zevo Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 The money is too good for these guys to say no....some will and some won't. With the medical info that is out there and the awareness, these players have a choice to make. I don't see the NFL ever falling.....it is too good of a sport. I suspect sometime in the future that players will have to sign a waiver as part of their contracts. For all the ones that don't want to play to save themselves from years medical issues, there are hundreds to thousands more lining up to take their place. I hope we can develop a way to see the damage while the person is alive instead of having the posthumous diagnosis. Until that happens, football will be in danger of losing a lot of premium athletes to other sports. You have a valid point about potentially losing the premier athlete to another sport.
Mr. WEO Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 The money is too good for these guys to say no....some will and some won't. With the medical info that is out there and the awareness, these players have a choice to make. I don't see the NFL ever falling.....it is too good of a sport. I suspect sometime in the future that players will have to sign a waiver as part of their contracts. For all the ones that don't want to play to save themselves from years medical issues, there are hundreds to thousands more lining up to take their place. You have a valid point about potentially losing the premier athlete to another sport. Like what? They can't all play baseball and not a lot of hockey players on those SEC/ACC teams.....
Luxy312 Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 I'm not sure how anyone could try to establish a comparison between boxing and the NFL. Boxing basically has almost random scheduling, cherry picked match-ups and promotions. It's hardly ever televised, and if you wanted to watch any of the major championship fights, you had to pay a mint for pay per view. I would very much argue that the advent of pay per view and the significantly reduced frequency of getting really good fights is what killed boxing. I think that MMA took a toll as well, but would contend that that's because MMA started off basically free to viewers as well. If you were going to say that CTE affected boxing, then that argument is already flawed by the growth of MMA, in which I would argue people take a hell of a lot harder blows to the melon. Football, to the contrary, is organized and scheduled at every level. From high school to the NFL. We know who's going to play each other at the beginning of every season, if not before. Championships, bowl games, and the Superbowl are a known commodity when the regular season is over. Most important, they're on television. If it's your local team you're cheering for, it's free every week (except for blackouts). It's easy to follow your team from the beginning to the end.With all that said, will some parents steer their kids away from football? Sure. They already have been for years. Will some kids that played at the HS or college level forgo playing in the NFL? Sure. Is football going the way of the dodo bird? Not in my lifetime. I seriously doubt any of the other major sports will come close to the revenue machine that is the NFL. NFL revenue is growing and sits at $11.9b. In the meantime, MLB revenue is falling and is the next closest at $8.7b. The NBA and NHL at $4.6b and $3.4b aren't even close.Sorry, but Tyler Sash barely makes the news.
hondo in seattle Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Football will likely go the way of boxing. Its hard to believe now but from the Jack Dempsey era up until the Ali-Frazier battles, championship boxing bouts were as big as the super bowl is now. Muhammed Ali was considered the most recognizable man on earth. Now most posters don't even know who the heavy weight champion is. It is painful to watch high school football now when you personally know the individual students, knowing the risks their brains are at. It is not as fun as it used to be. I'm not giving up on the future of football. But I agree, it's not as fun as it used to be. I worry about these guys and don't cheer hard hits anymore. I used to be a soldier. Death and life-long injuries go with the territory. Sadly, until people learn to live together in peace, that's just the way it is. But football is just a game. Death and life-long injury shouldn't be part of any game. I hope rule-changes and technology can save my favorite sport.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 I hope we can develop a way to see the damage while the person is alive instead of having the posthumous diagnosis. Until that happens, football will be in danger of losing a lot of premium athletes to other sports. The sons of a couple notable NFL players attend my kids school. They play baseball and basketball.
boyst Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 I still don't see the definitive information I need on cte to make me truly believe it is the epidemic it is made out to be.
dave mcbride Posted January 27, 2016 Author Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Like what? They can't all play baseball and not a lot of hockey players on those SEC/ACC teams..... My 16 year old son is a good athlete (6'2"; throws in the low 80s; has played high-level travel baseball for 8 years) and loves the NFL. Neither he nor any of his many sports-oriented friends even contemplate playing football. He literally doesn't know anyone who plays anything beyond the local NFL sponsored flag league (which he plays in). Granted, we're in the NYC area, but I hear this from people in other parts of the country that are not the South too. I don't know any parents who would let their kid play either, and the concussion issue is central. It's a different world from when I was growing up. The decline in Pop Warner and HS participation in areas that are not the South is real. This is one among many stories: http://highschoolsports.oregonlive.com/news/article/-5368247292851455294/high-school-football-at-crossroads-as-participaton-continues-to-decline/ . Will the NFL decline? Perhaps not. There are plenty of great players and programs in the South, and anyway what makes the game interesting is the game itself, not whether it has the best athletes of all outside of athletes who weigh 275-plus pound category (the NFL has a monopoly on those). Elite athletes who have options are not choosing football (again, outside of the South). I can guarantee you that. Edited January 27, 2016 by dave mcbride
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/27/sports/football/former-giants-safety-tyler-sash-found-to-have-cte.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0 This is one of those cases that has me say "there must be more to this CTE thing". This kid was relatively low mileage as a football player. He had serious injuries, and was apparently medicating heavily with pain-killers and self-medicating for the pain. He couldn't sleep. There are plenty of guys who have much longer careers, play in more games, also sustain injuries, and if they do develop problems, only much much later in life or not at all. I had the pleasure of seeing Bo Eason's 1 man show "Runt of the Litter" a couple years ago (funny! and moving - if you ever get the chance, GO even if you hate theatre). This would be a guy who had a similar career to Tyler Sash - started playing football young, played his a** off as a kid, played in college, played 4 years (36 games) in the NFL, suffered multiple serious knee injuries that finally ended his career. In his day he was noted for being a hard hitter (and kinda dirty) so I'm guessing he went helmet-first into a lot of guys. He's 54 now and making a living as an actor, playwright, and speaker. Nothing wrong with his focus, speaking ability, and so on. Is it some combination of playing years, playing style, specific medication, medication interactions, lifestyle? Sleep is important. Is inability to sleep a symptom or part of the cause? Certainly if I was a family member of a former player with symptoms like inability to focus, personality change, inability to sleep, I would want him worked up for CTE. I would like to see a very broad retrospective study of players and former players, gathering data about their football careers, their injuries, lifestyles, medications, administering cognitive tests, PET or MRI scans (whatever shows best). How prevalent is it? How many players and former players show early symptoms of cognitive awareness? Establish baselines, like the concussion baselines but more comprehensive. What helps? What mitigates? Study it. Figure it out. What we have now is just Gollygoshing and Aintitawful, because yes it's a problem, but how prevalent is it? Are there secondary factors and what are they? We just don't know. Edited January 27, 2016 by Hopeful
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