Webster Guy Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 One thing I noticed in most of the clips in that article is that Mario Williams looked like he was giving minimal effort. Thats what frustrates me about everyone saying Rex used him wrong. On the VAST majority of plays he was just rushing the passer or playing the run, and the guy was handled consistently by mediocre linemen. Same exact thing they said about him in Texas during his last year. Uninspired, minimal impact, lethargic on a lot of plays. Shows up for a series then disappears for games at a time. Wish that dude had the work ethic and drive of a Kyle or an Eric Moulds.
Nihilarian Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) Thats what frustrates me about everyone saying Rex used him wrong. On the VAST majority of plays he was just rushing the passer or playing the run, and the guy was handled consistently by mediocre linemen. Same exact thing they said about him in Texas during his last year. Uninspired, minimal impact, lethargic on a lot of plays. Shows up for a series then disappears for games at a time. Wish that dude had the work ethic and drive of a Kyle or an Eric Moulds. In regards to the above, this article was written after the Cincy game in week six by an ex NFL player who often contributes to SB Nation http://www.sbnation.com/2015/10/21/9581575/mario-williams-marcell-dareus-rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-defense I would suggest reading the entire article to obtain some further understanding of what was happening on the field defensively for the Buffalo Bills in 2015. Some excerpts, "Two of Buffalo's best defensive players have publicly complained about the scheme. They've got a point, says retired NFL defensive end Stephen White." "Both Dareus and Williams griped about how much the Bills pass rushing (and highly paid) defensive line was being asked to drop into coverage instead of rushing the passer. It was way too much in their estimation. I had the exact same complaint after watching them lose to the Bengals. But, there was more to it than that." "It's much worse than just Ryan having his best pass rushers dropping into coverage too much rather than actually, yanno, pass rushing. One edge guy, either Williams or Hughes, generally gets to stand up and either set the edge/pass rush on the edge or drop into coverage when they line up in a base 3-4. The other edge rusher often has to line up on the offensive tackle rather than being on an edge. That's pretty much the opposite of an ideal situation for most highly skilled pass rushers." "Even having Mario Williams, a human cheat code with his ridiculous combination of size, strength and athletic ability, two-gapping an offensive tackle is a pretty dumb thing to do on a regular basis because it's obvious he doesn't like doing it! I greatly admire Williams' game, but he's just not that guy who wants to be lined up head-up and wrestle with a 300-pounder all game. " "That goes double for Hughes, who plays with plenty of heart, but doesn't have nearly the kind of size and strength you generally want in a 3-4 five technique defensive end." "After watching this film, I have no idea who this version of Rex Ryan is. And that is unfortunate. As tacky and inadvisable as it is for players to call out their coaches to the media, I do think Ryan should do himself a favor and actually start listening to what they are saying. The reason is simple, they are not wrong." **Just a footnote here that in that Cincy game Marcell Dareus was dropped into pass coverage on two of the Bengals TD passes. Edited January 28, 2016 by Nihilarian
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 We will be better with Rex when NFL returns to allow bump and run defense by the CBs.
JohnC Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Thats what frustrates me about everyone saying Rex used him wrong. On the VAST majority of plays he was just rushing the passer or playing the run, and the guy was handled consistently by mediocre linemen. Same exact thing they said about him in Texas during his last year. Uninspired, minimal impact, lethargic on a lot of plays. Shows up for a series then disappears for games at a time. Wish that dude had the work ethic and drive of a Kyle or an Eric Moulds. It was apparent to all that Mario wasn't always giving maximum effort. If that was the case then why didn't the HC with a surplus of bravado take him out and demonstrate to the resistant player and the rest of the team that a lack of effort was not gong to be tolerated? Good HCs lead by creating an environment where everyone is held accountable for their play and actions. From a variety of standpoints this team lacked discipline. It starts from the top and works its way down into the lineup. Coaching matters!
The Big Cat Posted January 28, 2016 Author Posted January 28, 2016 It was apparent to all that Mario wasn't always giving maximum effort. If that was the case then why didn't the HC with a surplus of bravado take him out and demonstrate to the resistant player and the rest of the team that a lack of effort was not gong to be tolerated? Good HCs lead by creating an environment where everyone is held accountable for their play and actions. From a variety of standpoints this team lacked discipline. It starts from the top and works its way down into the lineup. Coaching matters! Reasonable explanations have been given to this question many many times. Ignoring them doesn't invalidate them.
JohnC Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Reasonable explanations have been given to this question many many times. Ignoring them doesn't invalidate them. What's the reasonable explanation?
JohnC Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 That you can stop watching the games? Actually I did for some games. When you see the same scenario playing out over and over there is no need to see the ending because you already know how it is going to play out. You have brought up this topic before but isn't it remarkable at the number of excuses that people can come up with for the mounting disappointing seasons . It never ends. The level of distortions and contortions made to rationalize ineptitude has deteriorated to the degree that it has become a syndrome. It's gotten to the point that if you point out the obvious defects within an organization more known for its futility than successes you become the object of scorn. It's so sad.
Nihilarian Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 It was apparent to all that Mario wasn't always giving maximum effort. If that was the case then why didn't the HC with a surplus of bravado take him out and demonstrate to the resistant player and the rest of the team that a lack of effort was not gong to be tolerated? Good HCs lead by creating an environment where everyone is held accountable for their play and actions. From a variety of standpoints this team lacked discipline. It starts from the top and works its way down into the lineup. Coaching matters! The Bills coaches have stated over and over that Mario Williams was doing what he was asked to do and that they were happy with his performance from every game. Mario was mostly playing gap control rather then being put into position to rush the passer. Then, even when Ryan had Mario set out past the OT on his side as Schwartz did in his wide nine he wasn't as effective because the OT would push him outside to make him run the arc usually taking 2-3 seconds. When the defense is only blitzing less than 10% of the time most games it makes it far easier for 5-6 offensive players staying in to block the four Bills players that are rushing. Sometimes the Bills would only rush with 3 instead of four because that fourth was dropping into pass coverage. Rex Ryan has had a past history of blitzing so often he would be bringing the kitchen sink every play. Meaning that (in his own words), "I'm going to bring everyone known to man after the QB every play". Back in 2009 with the NY Jets that was exactly the case as his Jets teams blitzed 50-54% of the defensive plays those years and his defense was so good and they went to the AFC championship games. I like to call Ryan's blitzing schemes an "overload blitz" simply because he would usually send more rushers / blitzers at the opposing QB than they had in defending the QB. This year Ryan didn't run that scheme very often and when he did it was usually very successful. I have no idea why he didn't blitz more often this year. This past year the 2015 Buffalo Bills almost never blitzed in the majority of the games and the lack of sacks by the Bills this year reflected that by being 31st in the league in sacks with only 21. This was from ESPN after week two's game against the Patriots. "Rex Ryan, Dennis Thurman and defensive coaching staff: Ryan told his team that this loss was on his shoulders, and so he's a natural place to start in the "down" column. Ryan's defensive game plan couldn't put pressure on Tom Brady-- the Bills disrupted (a sack, batted ball, passed defense or interception) only 9.8 percent of Brady's dropbacks, a lower rate than in any of the Bills' 2014 games -- and he never seemed to have an effective plan for stopping either Rob Gronkowski or Julian Edelman." http://espn.go.com/b...defensive-staff
BADOLBILZ Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Regarding stats, I've always been a fan of yards per play and points per drive. 2012: YPP - 5.6 - 22nd PPD - 2.15 - 29th 2013: YPP - 4.9 - 4thT PPD - 1.68 - 12th 2014: YPP - 4.9 - 3rdT PPD - 1.37 - 1st 2015: YPP - 5.6 - 19thT PPD - 1.81 - 19th Good call. Those are stats that match the eyeball test.
dave mcbride Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Reasonable explanations have been given to this question many many times. Ignoring them doesn't invalidate them. I haven't heard any (no offense). The Bills coaches have stated over and over that Mario Williams was doing what he was asked to do and that they were happy with his performance from every game. Mario was mostly playing gap control rather then being put into position to rush the passer. http://espn.go.com/b...defensive-staff If you believe that they were satisfied with his performance there's a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd be happy to sell you. It's pretty clear now that dissatisfaction with Williams ran up and down the franchise. Problem is, when Carrington went down they had no one else to replace him. Good call. Those are stats that match the eyeball test. yup - I've been saying that for a while.
The Big Cat Posted January 28, 2016 Author Posted January 28, 2016 I haven't heard any (no offense). If you believe that they were satisfied with his performance there's a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd be happy to sell you. It's pretty clear now that dissatisfaction with Williams ran up and down the franchise. Problem is, when Carrington went down they had no one else to replace him. yup - I've been saying that for a while. Um. You gave one. Another one that can't be ignored: he's the highest paid player in the locker room. I know things like morale and chemistry and alignment with management and alignment with ownership are magical pixie land fantasies around here, but I'd imagine it would have caused more harm than good. Lost in all of this is the fact that Mario is such a good player and such a physical specimen that his mailing it in was still a zero. Lesser guys trying much harder could have actually been more of a liability.
JohnC Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 The Bills coaches have stated over and over that Mario Williams was doing what he was asked to do and that they were happy with his performance from every game. Mario was mostly playing gap control rather then being put into position to rush the passer. Then, even when Ryan had Mario set out past the OT on his side as Schwartz did in his wide nine he wasn't as effective because the OT would push him outside to make him run the arc usually taking 2-3 seconds. When the defense is only blitzing less than 10% of the time most games it makes it far easier for 5-6 offensive players staying in to block the four Bills players that are rushing. Sometimes the Bills would only rush with 3 instead of four because that fourth was dropping into pass coverage. Rex Ryan has had a past history of blitzing so often he would be bringing the kitchen sink every play. Meaning that (in his own words), "I'm going to bring everyone known to man after the QB every play". Back in 2009 with the NY Jets that was exactly the case as his Jets teams blitzed 50-54% of the defensive plays those years and his defense was so good and they went to the AFC championship games. I like to call Ryan's blitzing schemes an "overload blitz" simply because he would usually send more rushers / blitzers at the opposing QB than they had in defending the QB. This year Ryan didn't run that scheme very often and when he did it was usually very successful. I have no idea why he didn't blitz more often this year. This past year the 2015 Buffalo Bills almost never blitzed in the majority of the games and the lack of sacks by the Bills this year reflected that by being 31st in the league in sacks with only 21. This was from ESPN after week two's game against the Patriots. "Rex Ryan, Dennis Thurman and defensive coaching staff: Ryan told his team that this loss was on his shoulders, and so he's a natural place to start in the "down" column. Ryan's defensive game plan couldn't put pressure on Tom Brady-- the Bills disrupted (a sack, batted ball, passed defense or interception) only 9.8 percent of Brady's dropbacks, a lower rate than in any of the Bills' 2014 games -- and he never seemed to have an effective plan for stopping either Rob Gronkowski or Julian Edelman." http://espn.go.com/b...defensive-staff I respectfully but strenuously disagree with your take that Mario did everything he was asked to. I understand Mario's frustration with how he was being used and how the defense was schemed. Clearly, he didn't buy in, and so didn't others. But it was evident to me in a number of games that there was a demonstrable lack of effort. It was as if he was determined to show the loquacious HC that what he was proposing was not going to work. Over the past few years Mario has been a dynamic pass rusher. One of the best rushers in the game (although not the best he consistently performed at an elite level) until the braggart HC arrived on the scene. On this issue I trust my eyes because I know what he was before Rex and how he performed with Rex. Even some of his teammates anonymously acknowledged that the Diva DE didn't always give maximum effort. Mario should be held accountable for how he conducted himself. There should be no excuses for his sometimes listless play.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 yup - I've been saying that for a while. I've never really understood the complaints about Pettine and Schwartz defenses in Buffalo............they were excellent. Supporting bad offenses.......they were better than most stats would indicate..... and very fun to watch. What we saw last year was sub-mediocrity that was brutal to watch opposite a much improved offense. What Rex accomplished was IMO the near equivalent of a first-to-worst scenario with this D........when you consider how much help his D was given by a much improved 2015 offense. I EXPECT Rex D to be much improved this year. If it isn't, he will not only be out of an NFL HC job but his status will drop sub-coordinator level......like the disgraced Dave Wannstedt.....and he will have to go into TV.
dave mcbride Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 I've never really understood the complaints about Pettine and Schwartz defenses in Buffalo............they were excellent. Supporting bad offenses.......they were better than most stats would indicate..... and very fun to watch. What we saw last year was sub-mediocrity that was brutal to watch opposite a much improved offense. What Rex accomplished was IMO the near equivalent of a first-to-worst scenario with this D........when you consider how much help his D was given by a much improved 2015 offense. I EXPECT Rex D to be much improved this year. If it isn't, he will not only be out of an NFL HC job but his status will drop sub-coordinator level......like the disgraced Dave Wannstedt.....and he will have to go into TV. I thought you'd appreciate this story: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/28/so-why-did-the-bears-ever-get-rid-of-greg-olsen/
GG Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 If it isn't, he will not only be out of an NFL HC job but his status will drop sub-coordinator level......like the disgraced Dave Wannstedt.....and he will have to go into TV. Isn't that what he admitted himself?
BADOLBILZ Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Isn't that what he admitted himself? I've never seen him say that he wouldn't even be able to get a DC job if he crapped out again. He knows that his HC status is on the line but what NFL HC doesn't?
GG Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 I've never seen him say that he wouldn't even be able to get a DC job if he crapped out again. He knows that his HC status is on the line but what NFL HC doesn't? In the summer he said that this is his last coaching job - either he's in Buffalo for life as a coach or he's done for good. I interpret that to mean any coaching job.
machine gun kelly Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Although GG, it's not like he follows through on just about anything he says. He'll be an analyst living easily like Billick, the Chin, Ditka, and so on. He'll most likely be very entertaining, but no one is going to hire him as a HC. Someone will probably offer though a DC job, and he'll need to see if he can make Gruden kind of money from ESPN. That guy is living the life. People don't realize the Glazers paid him for three years after getting fired and had the lucrative ESPN contract. He's worth a mint now, and still lives near me.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 In the summer he said that this is his last coaching job - either he's in Buffalo for life as a coach or he's done for good. I interpret that to mean any coaching job. Oh because I took that as he expected to be stay on as DC if the HC job in Buffalo didn't work out. You know that line Marv Levy used to have about thinking about retirement? I generally believe that if you aren't thinking about it, you aren't talking about it. Like here on TSW.......the people that are always telling people that they don't care what they think........they actually care a lot about what they think or that concept wouldn't be part of the conversation. Rex......in trying, inexplicably, to prove his commitment to the Bills HC job with that statement thru the media may have been letting on just how little effort he was ACTUALLY going to be putting into the job. He brought a rudderless, confused, thoroughly unprepared defensive team into the season after a very public horse-around of an offseason. Maybe what he was saying is that he's ok with going to the TV booth if being a successful HC is going to be hard work? Since we are interpreting his words, I thought I'd chip in my 2 cents.
Marty McFly Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 I'm over all of this already. Rex wants to make excuses for last year's team/defense good for him. But I think it's pretty obvious he has next year to get this defense and team going and into the playoffs...If not he will be gone. I hope thats the case. 2016 sink or swim specifically for Rex. Keep Whaley and Roman.
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