Rex's D

[Nihilarian]

 

The offense lost the Giants game, NOT the defense. It was pitiful, embarrassing, unimaginative and uninspired.

Gee, ya think the 7 first downs given to the Giants offense by the Buffalo Bills defense had anything to do with it??

 

 

Part of Rex Ryan's stupidity to beat his own team with the lack of discipline. This argument isn't just about the lack of sacks by last year's defense or the lack of discipline by the entire team in many games. The 2015 Buffalo Bills were the #2 team in the NFL in penalties and the only reason for that is that more were declined. (BTW, the Tampa Bay Buc's just fired the HC with the worst team in the league in penalties)

 

It wasn't just a bad scheme or variations of bad schemes that mostly didn't work on defense last year as it was the late defensive play calls, the players out of position when the ball was snapped. The defensive player substitutions coming in so late that even the slowest of teams would hurry to the line. The miss use of pro bowl players into doing things that they themselves complained about doing all season long.

 

I'd have to say that Ryan's choices for OC, QB and OG Richie Incognito are the only good things that came out of his being hired by the team. It still makes me think that this hire has got to be the worst head coach since Hank Bullough and the difference between those two men is that Ryan could sell snow to Eskimos.

 

 

Here is a discussion in this forum after the week two Patriots game. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/181760-carucci-disconnect-exists-between-dl-and-scheme/

 

 

For the life of me, I have a difficult time understanding how any true Buffalo Bills fan could still be defending the ineptitude we all saw from Rex Ryan's misuse of the pro bowl defensive line players. Only 21 sacks in 2015 for a team playing 250 million to those four D-line players to rush the passer. More importantly, I don't get how these new billionaire owners would retain this HC after such misuse of player talent.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Agreed on the lb thing l..... Ironically on the later point two of the less prolific passing teams with stout defenses are the ones going to the dance

 

It's true that both the Broncos and the Panthers are not top passing teams.

 

For the Panthers, I think it's a case of "why pass, when we can run it down your throat?" #2 Rushing Offense in the league.

 

For the Broncos, their running game is mediocre and their passing game is weak. I would love to see Peyton Manning get another ring and ride into the sunset, but practically speaking - I don't see how.

 

Passing is out-of-control in the NFL right now. THIRTEEN TEAMS with over 4000 yds. THIRTEEN. The top team nearly 5000 yds. Not that teams haven't gotten up there before. Warren Moon had a couple 4800-ish years as I recall, early '90s, but the team with the next highest yardage was well back. When Kurt Warner was leading "the Greatest Show on Turf" with 4600-something yards, the next highest passing yards was almost a thousand less, under 4000 anyway. Thirteen teams over 4000 yds? Nuts!

[GunnerBill]

Linebacker had a guy pinned to the sideline, dead to rights behind the LOS, and whiffed. Players make plays.

Interesting you refer to that play. Rex himself has said it was a play where there was a communication issue the play came in late. Jennings was not Bradham's responsibility. Should Bradham have made the tackle? Sure. Whose fault was it that Jennings was basically left free on the sideline and Bradham was left desperation lunging? Rex Ryan's.

[Nihilarian]

 

 

I can't either.

 

Big Cat seems to be the leader of the pack. Rex sucked last year. Plain and simple. Not sure why a few fans try to sugarcoat it. He has next year to get it fixed and if not he is a goner. I think this is obvious no?

Somewhere In the back of my mind, I'm holding out hope that the Pegula's talk to some NFL knowledgeable people that know a little something about NFL defenses and come to the realization of the horrible mistake they made in hiring Ryan.

 

Then after the Superbowl, they fire him and offer the job to Wade Phillips. The Bills might not have the complete set of players on the roster to run either Phillip's or Ryan's 3-4 scheme. But, by hiring Wade, at least, the team wouldn't be beset by all the other issues with the team including the lack of discipline over the entire team. The late play calls, the late player substitutions, motivating the opponent with his big mouth or team captains. Misuse of the players on the roster in forcing them into a scheme that doesn't work all season.

 

Next year should the Bills retain Ryan they might just get into the playoffs...if they played the Jets 16x.

[Bill from NYC]

Are you suggesting that if you are critical of the HC you are less entitled to watch and are less of a fan? If you are saying that you are making a dumb comment.

He is right John. If you disagree with him you are no fan, and shouldn't be watching the games. :)

[GunnerBill]

 

I notice you're now using PPG, whereas in another thread (claiming this year as an anomaly and outlier for Rex) you were using YPG and could not seemingly be persuaded to acknowledge that PPG paint a different picture sometimes. So let's make that point that the Bills D was #22 (2012), 10 (2013), 4 (2014), and 19 (2015) in YPG. Please don't cherry-pick the statistic that best suits your point from thread to thread, unless you have a justifying reason.

 

Let's also make the point that the personnel was NOT "virtually the same". 2012 featured 3 of the 4 DLmen and Chris Kelsay at RDE; starting linebackers Nick Barnett, Kelvin Sheppard, Nigel Bradham ®/Arthur Moats. The secondary included Aaron Williams and Gilmore ® as CB and George Wilson and Byrd as safeties. 2013 brought Alan Branch/ Jerry Hughes (remember Hughes for Sheppard?) as LDE and Mario on the R where he prefers, Kiko ® in, Barnett out, Aaron Williams to safety where he's a stronger player. A lot of changes IMHO to claim "the personnel was virtually the same".

 

In 2012, they were 27th in T/G which suggests that one reason for the poor defensive performance may have been being put in a bad position by the O. A little further look says we were 29th in turnovers, 28th in fumbles. That said, nope, the D under Wannstache was not good either statistically or by the eyeball test. In 2013, the Pettine D cracked the top 10 in YPG which is a bit surprising since they sucked in run D, but they were #2 in the league in sacks and had the #4 D against the pass. So there were signs of significant improvement.

 

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. I would say that 2012, the personnel were significantly different. 1 of the 4 DL, 2 of the 3 LB, 1 of 2 CB and 1 of 2 safeties. That's a lot of changes to claim the personnel were "virtually the same". So can we agree to exclude 2012?

 

Let's look at 2013. Branch/Hughes so 4 of 4 DL; LB, Lawson, Alonso and Moats/Bradham; CB McKelvin and Gilmore, Safeties Williams and Byrd. I guess I'll go with similar enough. The D cracked the top 10 in YPG and were #2 in Sacks, #4 vs Pass. Some would call that good, but the team was built to sack the QB at the expense of run D.

 

2014 brought LB Bradham, Spikes, and Brown ®, Safeties Williams and Searcy. I'll go with "similar enough", but I note that Spikes was brought in to be a run-stuffer. The D was #4 overall in YPG and PPG, #1 in sacks, #3 in passing yards, but improved to #11 against the run.

 

The way I see it, there were a couple of key personnel changes to go along with scheme changes in 2014, mostly on the LB, that allowed the team to be more effective against the run to add to a strong passing D and raise the level of the D. It may well be that losing Spikes had a bigger effect in 2015 than was generally appreciated, and losing Searcy a bigger effect once we also lost Williams, but again, it looks like a scheme change had an impact in 2015.

 

It's always possible the D would have ultimately bombed this year under Schwartz without Spikes and Searcy/Williams and with all the injuries. It's also possible that Schwartz would have lobbied effectively "pick me up another run-stuffing MLB! Brown is not a MLB, not yet and maybe not never!" We'll never get to go back and play the 2015 season with Schwartz to do that experiment.

 

To me, it looks like the D changed personnel significantly to improve from 2012 to 2013, added the final pieces and perhaps a better scheme against the run to improve further in 2014, and then fell off a cliff in 2015. But again, I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.

 

Excellent post.

 

The fact that we will never get to prove either way what would have happened with Schwartz in 2015 is something GG in particular is struggling to grasp. There is as much chance they'd have been #1 overall in total defense as there is being worse than #19. It is all totally baseless conjecture either way.

[JohnC]

He is right John. If you disagree with him you are no fan, and shouldn't be watching the games. :)

Reality can punch some people in the face with brass knuckles. In their delusional minds they interpret it as a lovingly pinch by Sofia Vergara.

 

Rex Ryan had a six year head coaching job in New York. Overall he had a losing record and left the team in shambles. Oddly, with great fanfare he gets hired by the new owners. The owners are getting what they bought and they are getting what they deserve. I have watched the Bills far longer than most. I can say without any equivocation that under Rex I have witnessed the dumbest coaching in the history of the organization. Hank Bullough is a coaching genius when compared to the loquacious Rex.

[Bill from NYC]

Reality can punch some people in the face with brass knuckles. In their delusional minds they interpret it as a lovingly pinch by Sofia Vergara.

 

Rex Ryan had a six year head coaching job in New York. Overall he had a losing record and left the team in shambles. Oddly, with great fanfare he gets hired by the new owners. The owners are getting what they bought and they are getting what they deserve. I have watched the Bills far longer than most. I can say without any equivocation that under Rex I have witnessed the dumbest coaching in the history of the organization. Hank Bullough is a coaching genius when compared to the loquacious Rex.

John, Jauron was off the charts bad too. Didn't he once send in the field goal unit to try a 57 yarder in near tornado winds?

Truthfully, I think that their defenses are similar. How sad is that?

[Coach Tuesday]

Reality can punch some people in the face with brass knuckles. In their delusional minds they interpret it as a lovingly pinch by Sofia Vergara.

 

Rex Ryan had a six year head coaching job in New York. Overall he had a losing record and left the team in shambles. Oddly, with great fanfare he gets hired by the new owners. The owners are getting what they bought and they are getting what they deserve. I have watched the Bills far longer than most. I can say without any equivocation that under Rex I have witnessed the dumbest coaching in the history of the organization. Hank Bullough is a coaching genius when compared to the loquacious Rex.

 

You've mostly had me - but claiming that Rex "left the team in shambles" weakens your entire argument. Rex was not the architect of that Jets team. Tannenbaum and Idzik left that team in shambles. Rex complained repeatedly about the lack of playmakers in the secondary, and was never given a competent QB to work with. You cannot pin that roster on Rex.

[GG]

 

I notice you're now using PPG, whereas in another thread (claiming this year as an anomaly and outlier for Rex) you were using YPG and could not seemingly be persuaded to acknowledge that PPG paint a different picture sometimes. So let's make that point that the Bills D was #22 (2012), 10 (2013), 4 (2014), and 19 (2015) in YPG. Please don't cherry-pick the statistic that best suits your point from thread to thread, unless you have a justifying reason.

 

 

- Yes I'm using the ranking at Pro Football Reference, which starts at PPG. If we were to use YPG, Bills would be #22 (2012), 23 (2013), 4 (2014), and 19 (2015), I have no idea where you got #10 in 2013. By any measure the '14 season is the anomaly.

And as for cherry picking the stats, nice player analysis and throwing in your own cherry picked data. Fact is, 3/4 of the DL was here since 2012, 4/4 have been here since 2013. Bradham didn't join in '14, but in '12 and he started 11 games. The core of the defense has been set for four seasons.

You are right, we have no idea of how Schwartz's scheme would have worked in '15. But seeing how his defense couldn't force a single stop vs NE in the 2nd half of the first game, how KC adjusted in the 2nd half to isolate poor LB play, and how teams came out to play the Bills this season, I'm very doubtful that his defense would have been Top 10, let alone Top 5 in '15. You know, exactly how Schwartz's defenses performed throughout his career. And assuming that he would get another lucky year without significant injuries.

 

You've mostly had me - but claiming that Rex "left the team in shambles" weakens your entire argument. Rex was not the architect of that Jets team. Tannenbaum and Idzik left that team in shambles. Rex complained repeatedly about the lack of playmakers in the secondary, and was never given a competent QB to work with. You cannot pin that roster on Rex.

 

I love how this meme gets created. The 2015 Jets roster was exactly what Rex was screaming for since 2013.

[FireChan]

 

You've mostly had me - but claiming that Rex "left the team in shambles" weakens your entire argument. Rex was not the architect of that Jets team. Tannenbaum and Idzik left that team in shambles. Rex complained repeatedly about the lack of playmakers in the secondary, and was never given a competent QB to work with. You cannot pin that roster on Rex.

 

 

 

. The 2015 Jets roster was exactly what Rex was screaming for since 2013.

What?

 

2014 1st rounder, Calvin Pryor, DB.

2014 3rd rounder, Dexter McDougle, DB

2013 1st rounder, Dee Milliner, DB

2013 1st rounder, Sheldon Richardson, DE

2012 1st rounder, Quinton Coples, DE

2012 3rd rounder, Demario Davis, LB

2011 1st rounder, Mo Wilk, DT

2011 3rd rounder, Kenrick Ellis, DT

2010 1st rounder, Kyle Wilson, DB

 

Are we really sitting here and saying Rex had no input on these picks and that no one "gave him what he needed?"

 

Memes created, indeed. Rex gets partial credit for Darby, but Milliner just wasn't his fault!

Edited January 27, 2016 by FireChan

[JohnC]

John, Jauron was off the charts bad too. Didn't he once send in the field goal unit to try a 57 yarder in near tornado winds?

Truthfully, I think that their defenses are similar. How sad is that?

Jauron was working with a limited roster so his approach (natural inclination) was to play not to lose. Rex took over a roster that was immensely better and had an ability to compete with any team. That is not to say that the team didn't have weaknesses, but all teams do. On defense he took away its strength and played to its weaknesses. He overthought the game. He diminished a strength and accentuated its weaknesses. A predictable folly. He basically was a dumb person who tried to show the world how smart he is. That is a very hazardous situation!

 

Jauron may have been a bad coach but there is a dignity to the way he conducted himself. With Rex his boastfulness in the midst of his foibles is tough for me to take. I openly admit that I have a distaste for bullshiiiters. My views on Rex were well established before he joined the organization. Now that he has been with the team for a year they are even more hardened.

 

The Bills were making the transition from the Wilson to the Pegula era. Because of the quirks of the schedule (NFCE and AFCS were weak) it worked in our favor. This was a playoff (wildcard) team. The caliber of coaching was the difference in not getting into the playoffs. It would have been a small milestone but a good milestone for this bedraggled franchise. Rex set this franchise back. He is not the solution---he is the problem.

[GG]

 

 

What?

 

2014 1st rounder, Calvin Pryor, DB.

2014 3rd rounder, Dexter McDougle, DB

2013 1st rounder, Dee Milliner, DB

2013 1st rounder, Sheldon Richardson, DE

2012 1st rounder, Quinton Coples, DE

2012 3rd rounder, Demario Davis, LB

2011 1st rounder, Mo Wilk, DT

2011 3rd rounder, Kenrick Ellis, DT

2010 1st rounder, Kyle Wilson, DB

 

Are we really sitting here and saying Rex had no input on these picks and that no one "gave him what he needed?"

 

Memes created, indeed. Rex gets partial credit for Darby, but Milliner just wasn't his fault!

 

I think you're misunderstanding the point. JohnC says that Rex left the Jets in shambles. You're pointing out the defensive players he lobbied for in the draft, who also happen to be good (why no respect for Mo?). That list doesn't look like a roster in shambles.

 

What I'm referring to, which is what Rex was screaming about was that the offense was an utter mess and all the pressure to win games was put on the defense. Do you think that Bowles gets 10 wins without Fitz/Marshall?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

- Yes I'm using the ranking at Pro Football Reference, which starts at PPG. If we were to use YPG, Bills would be #22 (2012), 23 (2013), 4 (2014), and 19 (2015), I have no idea where you got #10 in 2013. By any measure the '14 season is the anomaly.

 

From pro-football reference. Here ya go

 

 

And as for cherry picking the stats, nice player analysis and throwing in your own cherry picked data. Fact is, 3/4 of the DL was here since 2012, 4/4 have been here since 2013. Bradham didn't join in '14, but in '12 and he started 11 games. The core of the defense has been set for four seasons.

 

When someone makes a careful post pointing out the defensive personnel changes (giving names, easily verifiable at PFR and other sites) and the response is "you're cherry picking stats" (um, wait, what?) and "the core of the D has been set for 4 seasons", I think that kind of speaks for itself.

[JohnC]

 

You've mostly had me - but claiming that Rex "left the team in shambles" weakens your entire argument. Rex was not the architect of that Jets team. Tannenbaum and Idzik left that team in shambles. Rex complained repeatedly about the lack of playmakers in the secondary, and was never given a competent QB to work with. You cannot pin that roster on Rex.

Don't subscribe to the weasel school of management where the successes are attributed to him and the failures are attributed to others. He was inextricably involved with the football operation and its decisions. I'm not saying that he was solely responsible for that team's demise but I am saying that he was an important factor in making football decisions for his team.

 

Put aside the Jets' experience. Are you going to tell me that he did a good job for us in his first year with the team? How is it that under Schwartz the defense thrived and under Rex it took a precipitous decline? Are you suggesting that he wasn't a factor in the slippage? Compare what happened with the Jets? In Rex's last year the team went by the wayside. Under the new stolid coach the team makes a dramatic upturn. You don't think coaching wasn't a factor?

 

When Rex went to the Bills he went to a team he was familiar with because it played in the same division where he coached for six years. He had a good knowledge of the makeup of our roster before he even arrived. He had an offseason and preseason to work with the team. Do you think that especially on defense he put his best players in position to succeed? I certainly don't .

 

Don't fall into the excuse trap where failures are rationalized away. This season was a failure. Just because it is unreasonable to say that he was soley responsible for its underachievement it isn't unfair to say that he was primarily responsible for the team's lackluster performance.

 

No more excuses!

[FireChan]

 

I think you're misunderstanding the point. JohnC says that Rex left the Jets in shambles. You're pointing out the defensive players he lobbied for in the draft, who also happen to be good (why no respect for Mo?). That list doesn't look like a roster in shambles.

 

What I'm referring to, which is what Rex was screaming about was that the offense was an utter mess and all the pressure to win games was put on the defense. Do you think that Bowles gets 10 wins without Fitz/Marshall?

Some are good defensive players. I'm pointing out that IMO, it's very likely Rex was the partial architect of his own fate.

 

I tohught you were referring to Tuesday's post, who said:

 

 

You've mostly had me - but claiming that Rex "left the team in shambles" weakens your entire argument. Rex was not the architect of that Jets team. Tannenbaum and Idzik left that team in shambles. Rex complained repeatedly about the lack of playmakers in the secondary, and was never given a competent QB to work with. You cannot pin that roster on Rex.

Which I disagree with entirely. Rex loved Sanchez and stuck by him for 3/4's of his tenure. He wasn't pounding on the table for a QB. Then, he got Geno, who admittedly sucked. But, again, Rex was pounding on the table for Richardson, for Pryor, for Milliner, and it's hard to find a QB when you don't try to draft one. Ask the Bills.

 

And the secondary was in shambles, despite Rex's picks. Because they weren't successful. Rex takes blame for that.

 

And no, I don't think Bowles is successful without Marshall and Fitz, but he made those moves. Rex could've traded for Fitz. He could've drafted a WR instead of another DB or DE. How is that not on him?

Edited January 27, 2016 by FireChan

[GG]

 

From pro-football reference. Here ya go

 

 

 

When someone makes a careful post pointing out the defensive personnel changes (giving names, easily verifiable at PFR and other sites) and the response is "you're cherry picking stats" (um, wait, what?) and "the core of the D has been set for 4 seasons", I think that kind of speaks for itself.

 

I see what happened on the D rankings, I didn't reset the 2013 YPG ranking.

 

But on the second, I don't see how you can argue that the core of the defense hasn't been set in 2012, especially when most of the criticism involves the DL. 3/4 of the DL has been set for 4 seasons, and all of them for 3. Bradham has been here since '12 not '14 as you assert. Manny here since '13. Gilmore since '12, Aaron since '11, Leo the old man since '08. That's seven guys here for four years, and nine guys for four years. That's how I would define the core.

 

Funny, how the insertion and then absence of one guy from '14 to '15 makes such a huge swing in the results.

Some are good defensive players. I'm pointing out that IMO, it's very likely Rex was the partial architect of his own fate.

 

I tohught you were referring to Tuesday's post, who said:

 

Which I disagree with entirely. Rex loved Sanchez and stuck by him for 3/4's of his tenure. He wasn't pounding on the table for a QB. Then, he got Geno, who admittedly sucked. But, again, Rex was pounding on the table for Richardson, for Pryor, for Milliner, and it's hard to find a QB when you don't try to draft one. Ask the Bills.

 

And the secondary was in shambles, despite Rex's picks. Because they weren't successful. Rex takes blame for that.

 

And no, I don't think Bowles is successful without Marshall and Fitz, but he made those moves. Rex could've traded for Fitz. He could've drafted a WR instead of another DB or DE. How is that not on him?

 

Part of it was the losing playmakers in the secondary. But he also went crazy when Jets tossed Revis and then lost the rest of their good CBs after 2013.

 

As for the bolded, isn't that the reason he was tossed out? Idzik took full control of the roster decisions. How was Rex going to pull of the trade if his GM didn't want to do the trade?

[FireChan]

 

I see what happened on the D rankings, I didn't reset the 2013 YPG ranking.

 

But on the second, I don't see how you can argue that the core of the defense hasn't been set in 2012, especially when most of the criticism involves the DL. 3/4 of the DL has been set for 4 seasons, and all of them for 3. Bradham has been here since '12 not '14 as you assert. Manny here since '13. Gilmore since '12, Aaron since '11, Leo the old man since '08. That's seven guys here for four years, and nine guys for four years. That's how I would define the core.

 

Funny, how the insertion and then absence of one guy from '14 to '15 makes such a huge swing in the results.

 

Part of it was the losing playmakers in the secondary. But he also went crazy when Jets tossed Revis and then lost the rest of their good CBs after 2013.

 

As for the bolded, isn't that the reason he was tossed out? Idzik took full control of the roster decisions. How was Rex going to pull of the trade if his GM didn't want to do the trade?

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You can't give Rex credit when he lobbies for a DE in the first round, and then not also blame him when he doesn't lobby for a QB or a WR. Or not blame him strictly for the opportunity cost.

 

If you want to provide some evidence that he wanted someone on offense, and Idzik said no, then I'll change my tune.

Edited January 27, 2016 by FireChan

[Nihilarian]

Let me clarify some misconceptions here. The 2014 Jets weren't that bad on defense in Ryan's last year. Bills fans really need to stop reinforcing Ryan's own excuse that he didn't get the players needed in the secondary and that the new GM was trying to get him fired for not getting him the players he needed.

 

Believe it or not that 2014 NY Jets team was right behind the Buffalo Bills in team defensive hurries with 78 and the Bills had 80 hurries. That 2014 NY Jets defense was also #7th in the NFL with 45 sacks. They were #6th in total defense, #5 against the run and 14th against the pass. Simply not the horrorfest some would have you believe and for certain not even close to the reason why that team went 4-12.

 

 

It was the Jets offense that stunk it up and more importantly, the QB's in second-year starter Geno Smith and backup QB Mike Vick were the main reasons for losing so many games. We all saw how pathetic they were against Buffalo's defense under Schwartz. I recall laughing so often at how bad they were in those two games.

 

Week 8 Geno Smith started and went 2 of 8 for 5 yards and 3 INT's Michael Vick came in and went 18 of 36 for 153 1 INT but sacked 4x. Final score Buffalo 43-NY Jets 23.

 

Ryan benched Geno after that Bills game but the team had already lost 7 games with Geno Smith as the starter who went 3-10 in 2014. Veteran QB Mike Vick started the next three games in losing to the Chiefs, beating the Steelers and then Buffalo again, Vick was sacked 5x in that game before being injured late in the 3rd quarter and Geno made an appearance.

 

Week 12 Mike Vick went 7 of 19 for 76 yards one INT, 5x sacks- Geno Smith went 10 of 12 for 89 yards and was sacked 2x. That's 7x sacks for the Bills against that Jets team in one game and 11 sacks in two games.

 

Before this game Rex Ryan promised the Jets fans his team would play 1000% better in the second game against Buffalo and the final score was NY Jets 3- Buffalo Bills 38.

 

Rex Ryan's teams regressed with Mark Sanchez at QB and regressed with Geno Smith at QB. Veteran QB Michael Vick couldn't save him either and had a QB rating of 21.4 with the Jets that year.

 

Ryan looked so lost on the sidelines of that 4-12 team last season and it looked like he also lost his players along the way. The Buffalo Bills got exactly what they hired...a 4-12 head coach. Stop with the excuses for this bum.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Nihilarian

[Dorkington]

Regarding stats, I've always been a fan of yards per play and points per drive.

 

2012:

YPP - 5.6 - 22nd

PPD - 2.15 - 29th

 

2013:

YPP - 4.9 - 4thT

PPD - 1.68 - 12th

 

2014:

YPP - 4.9 - 3rdT

PPD - 1.37 - 1st

 

2015:

YPP - 5.6 - 19thT

PPD - 1.81 - 19th