Rex's D

[stevewin]

The second game was the turning point of the season. Belichick and Brady made sure the front four was not going to hurt him. They threw pretty much every pass within two seconds. There was zero chance even Schwqartz's defense was going to get any sacks against that offense. Rex made a monumental strategic error by not pressing and the Pats caught all kinds of short passes, Lewis killed us and we looked back on our heels.

Denver's win should put to bed the whole "two second" excuse for not being able to rush the passer. You don't have to sack Brady within 2 seconds - you just have to hit him ever GD chance you get and beat the crap out of him - even if you get there at 2 secs + 1. The constant unrelenting hits come from the combined mass of the DL moving forward with immediacy and purpose all trying to take his head off - not from schemes and blitzes where DLmen either drop and impotently lumber around in no mans land or dance at the LOS while a single blitzer comes from 10 yds off the line (more often than not getting there a second too late) while they vacate areas where short passes get completed and most important don't get a hit on the QB. Even if you don't sack Brady you need to hit him!!!! If you have 4 fat guys all moving forward every play trying to kill him you will get more hits!

 

The most important thing the Bills needed to do to change their fortunes was to figure out a way to beat NE**. The Giants showed the blueprint in the first SB win. Then when the Bills get stacked with the All-pro DL talent to implement the blueprint, that talent is wasted by Rex with his beloved scheme. Now Rex and his brother are all in with that scheme, one All pro DL will be gone (I understand he quit on the team, and that is inexcusable, but I still believe the root cause and much of the blame goes to Rex for mismanaging how he used the talent he had), and next year it will be Dareus who may be frustrated to the point of quitting as he does the dancing bear impression at the LOS that the scheme requires of him.

 

Now we are supposed to be content and be patient with Rex so he can bring his cronies in so everyone can "buy into" his dismantling of a defense that was already built to beat the Patriots** for one that is exposed by exactly what the Patriots offense is built to do. God it pisses me off.

Edited January 26, 2016 by stevewin

[The Big Cat]

Denver's win should put to bed the whole "two second" excuse for not being able to rush the passer. You don't have to sack Brady within 2 seconds - you just have to hit him ever GD chance you get and beat the crap out of him - even if you get there at 2 secs + 1. The constant unrelenting hits come from the combined mass of the DL moving forward with immediacy and purpose all trying to take his head off - not from schemes and blitzes where DLmen either drop and impotently lumber around in no mans land or dance at the LOS while a single blitzer comes from 10 yds off the line (more often than not getting there a second too late) while they vacate areas where short passes get completed and most important don't get a hit on the QB. Even if you don't sack Brady you need to hit him!!!! If you have 4 fat guys all moving forward every play trying to kill him you will get more hits!

 

The most important thing the Bills needed to do to change their fortunes was to figure out a way to beat NE**. The Giants showed the blueprint in the first SB win. Then when the Bills get stacked with the All-pro DL talent to implement the blueprint, that talent is wasted by Rex with his beloved scheme. Now Rex and his brother are all in with that scheme, one All pro DL will be gone (I understand he quit on the team, and that is inexcusable, but I still believe the root cause and much of the blame goes to Rex for mismanaging how he used the talent he had), and next year it will be Dareus who may be frustrated to the point of quitting as he does the dancing bear impression at the LOS that the scheme requires of him.

 

Now we are supposed to be content and be patient with Rex so he can bring his cronies in so everyone can "buy into" his dismantling of a defense that was already built to beat the Patriots** for one that is exposed by exactly what the Patriots offense is built to do. God it pisses me off.

 

Enough.

 

New England had two guys playing tackle that had no business being out there. They were matched up against DeMarcus Ware and Von Miller, two plays who were already matchup nightmares, but had the benefit of knowing the silent snap count down to a millisecond. Those two guys were in the backfield before either Cannon or what's-his-face even got out of their stances.

 

But you're right, D-Lineman should never drop into coverage, only blitz. That's how Von Miler got his pick, after all.

Edited January 26, 2016 by The Big Cat

[Hapless Bills Fan]

You bring up a really good point here

 

Our D looked pretty good in that last jets game.......they looked organized...they didnt committ penalties.....they did it despite a lot of injured players

 

the jets had all hands on deck....needed that game to stay alive....and could not beat us

 

What was different?

 

This is STRICTLY my opinion but I think Dennis Thurman has been a real problem all year......for some reason D calls are late gettiing to the field....its Rex D....but Thurman was running it.....Thurman has had success in the capacity he is now in the past......and you have the twins running the D now with the Ryans.

 

Perhaps communication issues now go by by

 

Perhaps I am wrong but....didn't Rex say he was calling the plays, and would call them next season? I guess I'm wondering if Dennis Thurman isn't just another scapegoat. If Dennis Thurman was responsible for late D calls then isn't it on Rex to make a change, or say "get it right or Get Out?"

 

As for Rob fixing the problem...I love your optimism, but Sean Payton is on public record saying Rob Ryan's D had a problem with the wrong personnel on the field and with the wrong play being called or the call being late in 2014, and this was not fixed in 2015 so buh-bye! Now, the Saints didn't get any better after Rob left, so maybe he's just Payton's scapegoat. But stuff like wrong play and wrong personnel can be, to some extent, verified by film junkies. So there's that.

[The Big Cat]

 

Perhaps I am wrong but....didn't Rex say he was calling the plays, and would call them next season? I guess I'm wondering if Dennis Thurman isn't just another scapegoat. If Dennis Thurman was responsible for late D calls then isn't it on Rex to make a change, or say "get it right or Get Out?"

 

As for Rob fixing the problem...I love your optimism, but Sean Payton is on public record saying Rob Ryan's D had a problem with the wrong personnel on the field and with the wrong play being called or the call being late in 2014, and this was not fixed in 2015 so buh-bye! Now, the Saints didn't get any better after Rob left, so maybe he's just Payton's scapegoat. But stuff like wrong play and wrong personnel can be, to some extent, verified by film junkies. So there's that.

 

The only time Sean Payton ever coached a successful defense, his players were being paid on the side for injuring the opposition. Just saying.

[stevewin]

 

Enough.

 

New England had two guys playing tackle that had no business being out there. They were matched up against DeMarcus Ware and Von Miller, two plays who were already matchup nightmares, but had the benefit of knowing the silent snap count down to a millisecond. Those two guys were in the backfield before either Cannon or what's-his-face even got out of their stances.

And if the Bills DL played their passive 2 gap schemes against those crappy tackles, they still would not have gotten hits on Brady. It's about the attitude to kill the QB. If you don't go after the QB, it doesn't matter if the OL sucks.

[Bill from NYC]

He wasn't comfortable running Schwartz D and he obviously wasn't comfortable running his own with the personnel he had so it's on him. He was epically bad in 2015.

This thread quite frankly is bizarre.

 

Our defense had 60% less sacks.

Our defensive linemen were dancing around like a boy band.

We made so-so quarterbacks look great.

We finished 8-8 with a much better offense that even included a quarterback, and people are defending Rex?

 

Believe me, I blame Whaley too. He gave Dareus more than 100 mil to jump up and down and cover receivers, let alone his other mistakes. Now, we brought in another unqualified clown to screw the defense up even more and it really is sad. A strong/competent person in charge just would not allow this circus act, and it WILL backfire.

 

It almost reminds me of the old Levy/Jauron days, when Ralph would hire unqualified people that nobody else wanted.

 

Sad indeed.

[GG]

This thread quite frankly is bizarre.

 

Our defense had 60% less sacks.

Our defensive linemen were dancing around like a boy band.

We made so-so quarterbacks look great.

We finished 8-8 with a much better offense that even included a quarterback, and people are defending Rex?

 

Believe me, I blame Whaley too. He gave Dareus more than 100 mil to jump up and down and cover receivers, let alone his other mistakes. Now, we brought in another unqualified clown to screw the defense up even more and it really is sad. A strong/competent person in charge just would not allow this circus act, and it WILL backfire.

 

It almost reminds me of the old Levy/Jauron days, when Ralph would hire unqualified people that nobody else wanted.

 

Sad indeed.

 

With virtually the same personnel (especially on the DL), the Bills D was #26 in 2012, #20 in 2013, #4 in 2014, and #15 in 2015.

 

Which year is the outlier? Kudos for Schwartz to get the max out of his players in 2014, but I think he would have gotten lit up this year.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

 

Enough.

 

New England had two guys playing tackle that had no business being out there. They were matched up against DeMarcus Ware and Von Miller, two plays who were already matchup nightmares, but had the benefit of knowing the silent snap count down to a millisecond. Those two guys were in the backfield before either Cannon or what's-his-face even got out of their stances.

 

 

Vollmer (per you "what's his face") started 13 games for the Pats and has been in the league 6 years, and Cannon started 8 and has been in the league 4 years. Both drafted by the Pats. Logic suggests both most be a significant part of the 12 wins that brought the Pats to that game, as well as the Pats success in previous years, but "they have no business being out there"? Seriously?

 

Is Vollmer at LT as good as Solder, no, is Cannon at RT as good as Vollmer, no, but "no business being out there? Seriously? Seriously?

 

Last year, it seems as though we had a couple of guys regarded as "matchup nightmares" who could take advantage of a silent count. And yet, in the 2nd Pats game, against these 2 guys who have "no business being out there", while we did get pressure it was no where near that level of mayhem.

 

The only time Sean Payton ever coached a successful defense, his players were being paid on the side for injuring the opposition. Just saying.

 

What's Your Point? The issue under discussion is whether the hire of Rob Ryan will "fix" the problem of late calls/wrong calls/late substitutions.

[The Big Cat]

 

 

Vollmer (per you "what's his face") started 13 games for the Pats and has been in the league 6 years, and Cannon started 8 and has been in the league 4 years. Both drafted by the Pats. Logic suggests both most be a significant part of the 12 wins that brought the Pats to that game, as well as the Pats success in previous years, but "they have no business being out there"? Seriously?

 

Is Vollmer at LT as good as Solder, no, is Cannon at RT as good as Vollmer, no, but "no business being out there? Seriously? Seriously?

 

Last year, it seems as though we had a couple of guys regarded as "matchup nightmares" who could take advantage of a silent count. And yet, in the 2nd Pats game, against these 2 guys who have "no business being out there", while we did get pressure it was no where near that level of mayhem.

 

Players make plays. Don't blame the coach if the player can't beat the guy in front of him.

 

And every bit of analysis I've read/listened to, particularly from former o-lineman, clearly states that the tackles were obscenely overmatched on Sunday. Your circular reasoning does nothing to refute that.

In fact, let's ask straight up: is Mario as good as Ware? Is Hughes as good as Miller? No. Neither.

[JohnC]

 

With virtually the same personnel (especially on the DL), the Bills D was #26 in 2012, #20 in 2013, #4 in 2014, and #15 in 2015.

 

Which year is the outlier? Kudos for Schwartz to get the max out of his players in 2014, but I think he would have gotten lit up this year.

Hughes, Dareus and Mario had exceptional years in 2014. In 2015 their respective performances took a precipitous drop. Our LBing corp played solidly in 2014. That same unit was ineffective the next year.

 

Whaley spent most of his resources upgrading the offense. He hardly tampered with the defense with the exception of adding Darby who played very well at corner. He had to be as surprised as anyone with the steep decline of the defense. Now the defense has to be reworked with the departure of Mario and the adjustment to Rex's scheme which his defense struggled with. What a freaking mess!!!

[The Big Cat]

Hughes, Dareus and Mario had exceptional years in 2014. In 2015 their respective performances took a precipitous drop. Our LBing corp played solidly in 2014. That same unit was ineffective the next year.

 

Whaley spent most of his resources upgrading the offense. He hardly tampered with the defense with the exception of adding Darby who played very well at corner. He had to be as surprised as anyone with the steep decline of the defense. Now the defense has to be reworked with the departure of Mario and the adjustment to Rex's scheme which his defense struggled with. What a freaking mess!!!

 

You flatly ignored all his points then glossed over major personnel issues in 2015 to arrive at this point.

[JohnC]

 

You flatly ignored all his points then glossed over major personnel issues in 2015 to arrive at this point.

My point is simple and obvious: The same personnel under one coach were effective; the same personnel under another coach are demonstrably less effective.

[The Big Cat]

My point is simple and obvious: The same personnel under one coach were effective; the same personnel under another coach are demonstrably less effective.

 

And he thoroughly refuted those assertions. You simply choose to ignore what GG has to say.

[JohnC]

 

And he thoroughly refuted those assertions. You simply choose to ignore what GG has to say.

In what way did he refute those assertions? If you arguing that Rex's defense was effective, especially compared to the prior year, which is the central point for many posters then we will never come to a reasonable understanding.

[GG]

My point is simple and obvious: The same personnel under one coach were effective; the same personnel under another coach are demonstrably less effective.

 

The same personnel were demonstrably worse in '12 and '13 too, and worse than in '15.

[FireChan]

 

The same personnel were demonstrably worse in '12 and '13 too, and worse than in '15.

Yeah but injuries and Brandon Spikes bro.

 

Players make plays. Don't blame the coach if the player can't beat the guy in front of him.

 

And every bit of analysis I've read/listened to, particularly from former o-lineman, clearly states that the tackles were obscenely overmatched on Sunday. Your circular reasoning does nothing to refute that.

In fact, let's ask straight up: is Mario as good as Ware? Is Hughes as good as Miller? No. Neither.

Yes.

[JohnC]

 

The same personnel were demonstrably worse in '12 and '13 too, and worse than in '15.

Dareus was much more of a force in 2014 and Hughes was added to the roster in 2013 (?). The DL was on an upswing. It was getting better, especially with Dareus playing at a high level. The meaningful measuring/comparison point was 2014 to 2015. The difference is noticeable.

 

What is surprising is that even Rex acknowledges that something was very much amiss. He believes the biggest issue was the lack of commitment to his principles.

[The Big Cat]

Dareus was much more of a force in 2014 and Hughes was added to the roster in 2013 (?). The DL was on an upswing. It was getting better, especially with Dareus playing at a high level. The meaningful measuring/comparison point was 2014 to 2015. The difference is noticeable.

 

What is surprising is that even Rex acknowledges that something was very much amiss. He believes the biggest issue was the lack of commitment to his principles.

 

These are all qualitative/speculative points that, again, in no way refute all the other points he's made.

[JohnC]

 

These are all qualitative/speculative points that, again, in no way refute all the other points he's made.

Do you want to know what aren't qualitative/speculative points? That the defense under Rex took a precipitous decline!

[The Big Cat]

Do you want to know what aren't qualitative/speculative points? That the defense under Rex took a precipitous decline!

 

Why watch, then?