Rex's D

[The Big Cat]

 

I don't know about the anonymous player being an offensive player. Mario implied that, but there were clues I think that implied it was a D player, probably a backup or bit player.

Frankly even Brown and McKelvins's defense seems apologist to me: "when you're 30 years old, it's kind of hard to start doing stuff you've never done" and "you're used to getting to the QB and now you're making sacrifices for someone else to get to the QB" is not exactly "the opposite", eh? Also, Ty Dunne claimed what he quoted was "the tip of the iceburg". But Nah, I'm not gonna go through and point out plays where I think Mario took off. For one thing, I'm not at the level some here are at interpreting D play.

 

 

 

This IMHO is inarguable, and the heart of my frustration with Rex's D. Our DL was our strength, our LB I would characterize as "adequate in the right scheme". So Rex brought in a scheme that demanded adequate line play and star LB. I think Preston Brown can be a smart, solid player in the right scheme (he was last year) but covering vast ground and rushing the passer is NOT his strength.

 

And yet the endless trope of d-lineman dropping has been severely countered by the actual numbers. How are people still making this argument and expect to be taken seriously?

[8-8 Forever?]

I'm over all of this already.

 

Rex wants to make excuses for last year's team/defense good for him.

 

But I think it's pretty obvious he has next year to get this defense and team going and into the playoffs...If not he will be gone.

Not obvious to me. Two years and out? Come on , give me a break. So if a totally new offense, defense and QB doesn't get you in the playoffs by end of year 2 you flush the coaching staff and start over? don't think so, a lot can happen to tank a season, what if TT gets hurt week 4 , EJ is so so, and we go with the guy we draft this year and he is Ok for a rookie. Flush the coaching staff, start over? Remember Pegs started this Rex new defense thing by shoving Marrone/Schwartz out. He needs to stick with his hand picked guy for more than 2 years no matter what unless the players quit on Rex , which they won't do bc the guy is loved by the players.

 

Poor bruised Bills fans. Lost the ability to reason this out. I like this team bc it has a focus on offense now, offense wins in the NFL now. Screw the defense, the rules are so twisted to favor offense that you need to put your resources into offense more than defense. and they have done that. Go sign Glenn, Incognito, and Gilmore ; cut Mario/McFumble, they are leftovers from the Ralph loser regime and lets move forward and get a WR, RT and dev QB in the draft. Defense will only take you so far. Denver about to find that out next Sunday.

Edited January 29, 2016 by 8and8-->NoMore

[Wayne Cubed]

 

And yet the endless trope of d-lineman dropping has been severely countered by the actual numbers. How are people still making this argument and expect to be taken seriously?

 

The only other thing I'd add is, D-lineman dropping into coverage can be effective as shown by Von Miller, Denvers best pass rusher, dropping into coverage and intercepting Tom Brady.

[The Big Cat]

 

When you are given the amount of talent that Rex was given and if they have nothing to show for it after two years then yes, he should be fired.

 

I'm amazed some fans give this guy a long leash. What he did to the defense alone should've gotten him fired.

 

Who is this talent you speak of?

 

Bills fans seem to have convinced themselves that they have a top-3 guy at all 11 positions on defense.

 

We certainly don't have a quarterback capable of hiding deficiencies.

 

Outside of Dareus and may be Gilmore, exactly who on the defense is an elite talent at their position?

[The Big Cat]

 

 

Jesus.

You really want to have this conversation again?

 

Didn't think you had an answer.

[Manther]

I noticed confusion, late substitutions,late play calling, and d tackles dropping back into coverage. I know one thing, I didn't see a bully of a defense. I saw a POORLY coached defense. If one guy alone screwed the defense it was Rex, not Mario (this year's whipping boy). Who is it next year,Hughes?!

Agreed

I don't think Bowles gets 10 wins without those two guys, but I DO THINK BOWLES GETS 11 OR 12 WINS WITH OUR TEAM. He's a better coach, where Rex is a media hound of a clown.

Agreed

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

Didn't think you had an answer.

It's the same defense that was very good last year.

 

"But Brandon Spikes"

 

That's like supporting Nate Hackett on the basis that he didn't have a fullback to work with. If he wanted a fullback, he'd have had a fullback.

 

One-dimensional run stuffing linebackers who are a liability in coverage are role/fringe players in today's NFL. Brandon Spikes was not highly sought after before the Bills got him, nor after. If we didn't have a one-dimensional run stuffing MLB who is a liability in coverage its because the coaches didn't think it would help them.

[The Big Cat]

Agreed

Agreed

 

Bowles needed Fitz/Marshal to set franchise records to sniff 10 wins, many of which they got by the skin of their teeth. Not to mention, they lost the ones they needed most.

 

Methinks the effusive love for Bowles stems mostly from the fact that he's not Rex.

 

We'll see how he does next year when that roster is gutted. Take a look a look at who they're obligated to keep this year, come to grips with which players they'll inevitably lose, then come back and tell me you think they'll finish with more than seven wins in 2016.

It's the same defense that was very good last year.

 

"But Brandon Spikes"

 

That's like supporting Nate Hackett on the basis that he didn't have a fullback to work with. If he wanted a fullback, he'd have had a fullback.

 

One-dimensional run stuffing linebackers who are a liability in coverage are role/fringe players in today's NFL. Brandon Spikes was not highly sought after before the Bills got him, nor after. If we didn't have a one-dimensional run stuffing MLB who is a liability in coverage its because the coaches didn't think it would help them.

 

It's not.

 

Spikes, Searcy, Aaron Williams and Kyle Williams, all gone. They added a Darby.

 

Again, this false argument that personnel went unchanged has been roundly disputed since November. You just choose to ignore it.

The linebackers suffered tremendously with Spikes gone. If you're oblivious to this or if you're flatly going to ignore this fact, there's no point in discussing this.

Edited January 29, 2016 by The Big Cat

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

Bowles needed Fitz/Marshal to set franchise records to sniff 10 wins, many of which they got by the skin of their teeth. Not to mention, they lost the ones they needed most.

 

Methinks the effusive love for Bowles stems mostly from the fact that he's not Rex.

 

We'll see how he does next year when that roster is gutted. Take a look a look at who they're obligated to keep this year, come to grips with which players they'll inevitably lose, then come back and tell me you think they'll finish with more than seven wins in 2016.

 

It's not.

 

Spikes, Searcy, Aaron Williams and Kyle Williams, all gone. They added a Gilmore.

 

Again, this false argument that personnel went unchanged has been roundly disputed since November. You just choose to ignore it.

The linebackers suffered tremendously with Spikes gone. If you're oblivious to this or if you're flatly going to ignore this fact, there's no point in discussing this.

I've addressed your point about Spikes.

[Dopey]

GG brings up a good point. Teams realized what the Bills did last year and how well the fearsome foursome rushed the passer and how many sacks we got. In the first game of the year, the Colts played us fairly vanilla and ran their regular offense. We did well and Luck was pretty much a non factor.

 

The second game was the turning point of the season. Belichick and Brady made sure the front four was not going to hurt him. They threw pretty much every pass within two seconds. There was zero chance even Schwqartz's defense was going to get any sacks against that offense. Rex made a monumental strategic error by not pressing and the Pats caught all kinds of short passes, Lewis killed us and we looked back on our heels.

 

The third game the Dolphins, stupidly, just played their regular offense and Tannehill would drop back and look around and again we played pretty well and won the game.

 

The fourth game, against another smart coach and QB, Eli Manning threw virtually every pass quickly. There was no time for a rush and again we were carved up by a short passing game especially because Rex decided to take OBJ out of the game.

 

From then on, pretty much every team threw quick passes against us. The front four got more and more frustrated. Injuries mounted, and we didn't improve until late.

 

But the fact is, Schwartz's defense was not going to be able to get sacks against Brady or Eli any more than Rex's did, and we shut down the two guys that tried to step back and throw. It wasn't until the Bengals game, an undefeated team with a treendous offense and line at that point in the season, who started out throwing very quick, that we couldn't mount any rush.

And Dalton stepped back and had all day to throw

Once the memo was out to the rest of the league to get rid of the ball quickly, Rex didn't adjust. All season long.

[The Big Cat]

Once the memo was out to the rest of the league to get rid of the ball quickly, Rex didn't adjust. All season long.

 

Yes he did.

I've addressed your point about Spikes.

 

No you didn't. You pointed out his weaknesses, which nobody is disputing.

[Dorkington]

As impatient as I am emotionally... I think I want to see what will happen if we give Rex and co 5 years or so, as long as something disastrous doesn't happen. I really want to see a system built, and some consistency for once.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

Yes he did.

 

No you didn't. You pointed out his weaknesses, which nobody is disputing.

Okay I see you didn't follow.

 

Rex and Thurman were with a division rival for 6 years. After being hired by the Bills they had 9 months to plan their defense and acquire whatever trivial pieces they thought would help.

 

Just as it was nobody other than Marrone/Hackett's fault that they didn't want a fullback, it was nobody other than Rex/Thurman's fault that they didn't want a one-dimensional run stuffing linebacker who is a liability in coverage.

[Dopey]

Agree with that. The point is, however, that teams didn't throw 2 second passes against us when Schwartz was here. They did this year because of what Schwartz did last year. There is no defense that can get sacks against 2 second passes.

Wow!!!!!!!!! Maybe it's just me, but does this make sense to anyone else?!?!? Lets go along with this anyway, shouldn't a defensive guru have been able to adjust?!?! Let me guess, we didn't have the right personnel. We didn't adjust all season long. " But they're throwing it too fast, we don't have time to get there" whahh, whahh. You can game-plan for quick throwing schemes. Jam receivers, bring up the safeties, adjust with the lb's, don't drop your best pass rushers into coverage, etc. We had too much talent to not adjust, but we didn't have the right personnel, wait, what?!?!? No, we didn't have the right coach to make adjustments. Defensive guru my ...

Just thought it was funny that someone can include Schwartz as part of the reason Sexy Rexy the Clown failed.

[The Big Cat]

Okay I see you didn't follow.

 

Rex and Thurman were with a division rival for 6 years. After being hired by the Bills they had 9 months to plan their defense and acquire whatever trivial pieces they thought would help.

 

Just as it was nobody other than Marrone/Hackett's fault that they didn't want a fullback, it was nobody other than Rex/Thurman's fault that they didn't want a one-dimensional run stuffing linebacker who is a liability in coverage.

 

And you've narrowed the reason Spikes isn't on an active roster to that and that alone. Which I don't believe is the case.

Wow!!!!!!!!! Maybe it's just me, but does this make sense to anyone else?!?!? Lets go along with this anyway, shouldn't a defensive guru have been able to adjust?!?! Let me guess, we didn't have the right personnel. We didn't adjust all season long. " But they're throwing it too fast, we don't have time to get there" whahh, whahh. You can game-plan for quick throwing schemes. Jam receivers, bring up the safeties, adjust with the lb's, don't drop your best pass rushers into coverage, etc. We had too much talent to not adjust, but we didn't have the right personnel, wait, what?!?!? No, we didn't have the right coach to make adjustments. Defensive guru my ...

Just thought it was funny that someone can include Schwartz as part of the reason Sexy Rexy the Clown failed.

 

You keep saying he didn't adjust as if the more times it's repeated, the more likely it is to be true, when it's not.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

And you've narrowed the reason Spikes isn't on an active roster to that and that alone. Which I don't believe is the case.

Spikes is not the world's only one-dimensional LB who can't cover. To most teams, this is simply a backup who can't play special teams, and not a desirable piece. For example, Spikes himself was not highly sought after either before or after the Bills got him.

 

Just as Marrone and Hackett could have added a fullback any time they wanted, Rex and Thurman could have added a fringe linebacker who can't even play in a modern base defense (the nickel) any time they wanted, for peanuts. The rest of the league puts no value on these players.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Aaron

[Dopey]

 

Yes he did.

 

No you didn't. You pointed out his weaknesses, which nobody is disputing.

OK, I'll go along with this. How did those adjustments work? Still coming in with late call on defense at the end of the season. Still not lined up when the ball was snapped. Yea, he adjusted alright. He may have tried to adjust(since I said I'll go along with your assertion), but they didn't work and he was out coached by everyone. Luckily for Rex, Fitz resorted back to being Fitz that last game, that and their wr's dropping catch-able balls. I watched that game and if their wr's hold onto a couple of key passes, they win that game and make the playoffs. That last game was a mirage.

 

And you've narrowed the reason Spikes isn't on an active roster to that and that alone. Which I don't believe is the case.

 

You keep saying he didn't adjust as if the more times it's repeated, the more likely it is to be true, when it's not.

OK, I'll go along with this. How did those adjustments work? Still coming in with late call on defense at the end of the season. Still not lined up when the ball was snapped. Yea, he adjusted alright. He may have tried to adjust(since I said I'll go along with your assertion), but they didn't work and he was out coached by everyone. Luckily for Rex, Fitz resorted back to being Fitz that last game, that and their wr's dropping catch-able balls. I watched that game and if their wr's hold onto a couple of key passes, they win that game and make the playoffs. That last game was a mirage.

[The Big Cat]

OK, I'll go along with this. How did those adjustments work? Still coming in with late call on defense at the end of the season. Still not lined up when the ball was snapped. Yea, he adjusted alright. He may have tried to adjust(since I said I'll go along with your assertion), but they didn't work and he was out coached by everyone. Luckily for Rex, Fitz resorted back to being Fitz that last game, that and their wr's dropping catch-able balls. I watched that game and if their wr's hold onto a couple of key passes, they win that game and make the playoffs. That last game was a mirage.

OK, I'll go along with this. How did those adjustments work? Still coming in with late call on defense at the end of the season. Still not lined up when the ball was snapped. Yea, he adjusted alright. He may have tried to adjust(since I said I'll go along with your assertion), but they didn't work and he was out coached by everyone. Luckily for Rex, Fitz resorted back to being Fitz that last game, that and their wr's dropping catch-able balls. I watched that game and if their wr's hold onto a couple of key passes, they win that game and make the playoffs. That last game was a mirage.

 

Well, now you've jumped to a completely separate critique.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

Then I'm curious what you think would have been different given the concerted strategy to neutralize them in 2015: the quick passing game. Why would the d-line, under any circumstances, been more effective, regardless of the coordinator?

 

I think you and I are simpatico, however, on the impact of Spikes' departure, something that gets overlooked A LOT by Rex's most ardent critics.

 

On Spikes: people who know more than I about D have pointed out that we did, indeed, miss him. But doesn't Rex get some responsibility for not going to Whaley and co. and saying "I need someone to fill the Spikes role, be it Spikes or someone else"? I think he didn't do that because Spikes isn't his kind of ILB. His kind of ILB is a Ray Lewis/David Harris type, an every-down guy who is as stout against both pass and run. Rex had a role in valuing Spikes and deciding who was brought in.

 

Regarding the "concerted strategy to neutralize (us)....the quick passing game": We need someone with premium PFF stats access to check this out. PFF tracks a stat called "time to throw", and I believe premium subscribers can pull it up game by game and ask the question "were QB indeed, throwing more quickly against the Bills in 2015 than in 2014?" I am not a PFF subscriber.

 

For some people, and I'm not saying you're one of them. two things are being conflated: the quick snap, and the quick throw. Teams WERE concertedly trying for the quick snap against us, because word and film both told that we were struggling to get the play in and make substitutions on D, so if they could snap quickly, they could catch us at a disadvantage.

 

Regarding the quick throw, I put it out there up-front that I don't have access to the data to prove or disprove, but my "eyeball test" says that the QB who normally throw quickly against us were still doing so, and the ones who normally don't, weren't. The difference was last year, those that don't, were sitting on their a**es having been sacked, and this year, those were completions. But that's just my eyeball and sometimes "the eyes lie". In any event, the key to defeating a quick passing game is tight, disruptive coverage off the line, and we didn't do that well either.

[Dopey]

 

Well, now you've jumped to a completely separate critique.

Kinda have to if I'm going to pretend to go along with your line of thinking. Still, this started with you saying the quick throws were because of what Schwartz did last year. Even Rex didn't use that lame excuse, and he's full of excuses. I give you credit for an original excuse that even Rex couldn't think of. Wait a minute; Rex is that you posing as The Big Cat?!