boyst Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Ya know, if I could make anything happen I would bring in Wade as DC and Shula as OC. At HC, I would bring in Bowles.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Well what he said, and what he did, were certainly 2 very different things. And I knew when he said it that he wasn't going to get what he wanted. Rex plays to trick the QB not to hit the QB. That needs to change because you can't fool good veteran QB's consistently without forcing them to make quick decisions and hasty throws. Offenses have seen zone blitz concepts for two decades now........they are no longer scary unto themselves.......they need to be accompanied with quick pressure to work. Rex early run with the Jets had as much to do with the internal clocks of battered QB's as anything. When the league legislated out the kill shots on QB's and WR's it created a calm in the pocket which caused a passing yardage explosion and it also diminished the panic that Rex D once caused. So even as his D in NY got more talented.......it became less effective. He needs to realize that and get back to hitting the QB. Ironically, Deion Lewis - a successor to Shady at Pitt -- has those ball skills downfield. He was missed yesterday. They were tearing it up when he was healthy. And he was acquired for peanuts.
GG Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Not actually true. When Rex was hired Mario said he was excited to play the OLB position like he did in Wade's D. For some reason people on TSW seem to think Mario left Houston because he didn't want to play OLB for Wade but he was having a career year under Wade before he got injured. There was concern that Mario would resist dropping in coverage in Wades system, but it never happened because of the injury. But it's highly unlikely that Wade wouldn't have asked Mario to drop back one or two plays a game. Because that's the totality of Marios complaint. A few plays a game to cover the RB in a wheel route.
Nervous Guy Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 It was laughable watching them try to throw that wheel route to White over and over. Doesn't matter if they are open if they lack the ball skills to locate and accelerate to the ball and then secure it. The unexpected byproduct of the NFL becoming a pass first league is that the talent at the RB position has been so diminished that backs that can actually catch a ball thrown more than 10 yards downfield are now a rarity. The Bills got one that they pay $8M per year and he can't do it either. Bang that drum brotha!
BADOLBILZ Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Bang that drum brotha! When they were trying to turn James White into Marshall Faulk on those wheels yesterday I had to smile. Tyrod handed Shady a TD with a beautiful throw on the wheel in NE and Shady waited for it to get to waist level and got it barely tipped away after he bobbled it because he's not a receiver and I remember thinking why would Roman run a RB like Shady on a route that far on such a critical play? It was asking for failure..........but then Josh McDaniels/Brady waste key downs trying to pound square pegs into that same round hole yesterday and it just felt good to see more successful types making the same dumb mistakes in the name of perceived matchup advantages. I know Gronk was cramping up....probably from trying to pre-hydrate with booze all week.....but James White is your 4th or 5th best receiving option on any given play. Throw to your playmakers and 20 yards downfield guys like White and Shady are not playmakers in the pass game.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 There was concern that Mario would resist dropping in coverage in Wades system, but it never happened because of the injury. But it's highly unlikely that Wade wouldn't have asked Mario to drop back one or two plays a game. Because that's the totality of Marios complaint. A few plays a game to cover the RB in a wheel route. How many times was Ware (Mario's true coutnerpart) asked to drop into coverage yesterday? I dont remember seeing it very often. Miller, yes. But anyone have stats on Ware?
YoloinOhio Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) How many times was Ware (Mario's true coutnerpart) asked to drop into coverage yesterday? I dont remember seeing it very often. Miller, yes. But anyone have stats on Ware? i don't know about yesterday but I have seen Broncos fans complaining about how much he has been in coverage this whole season - because he loves to drop and isn't all that good at it apparently. Wade lets them freelance. Edited January 25, 2016 by YoloinOhio
GG Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) How many times was Ware (Mario's true coutnerpart) asked to drop into coverage yesterday? I dont remember seeing it very often. Miller, yes. But anyone have stats on Ware? Again this is pure hyperbole. The DLs didn't drop back nearly as much as people think they did. But if it helps to build a narrative, then by all means go ahead Edited January 26, 2016 by GG
K-9 Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) I'll say it again: Wade Philips is the best defensive coordinator since...ever. Gets more out of linebackers than anyone (John Holoceck, anyone? Sam Rogers? Mark Maddox? Not surprising Von Miller is a beast in Phillips' schemes.) Phenomenal at game-planning a defensive scheme, and flexible as hell in his scheming (remember when he had to convert to a 4-3 in a week, after Holoceck and Covington went down, and gave Miami absolute fits?) As a DC, he's consistently produced top-5 defenses. Don't think much of him as a head coach...but damn, if anyone should get in to the HoF as an assistant coach, it's him. Nit to pick with the article: it misses the very obvious point that with the Patriots and Brady under center, every down is an "obvious passing situation." They simply don't run the ball - they use the no-read short pass in its place. Phillips' game-planning for it is obvious in retrospect...he just had the foresight, and the game-planning ability, and Von Miller, to actually do it. I shared a similar thought in another thread. Wade is on my very short list of DCs that I would want to scheme one game/team if I had a choice. Many in this forum don't have a recollection of the '91 AFC championship game, but what Wade did to our offense was masterful. That was Kelly's best year and Thurman won O player of the year honors and Denver just owned us that day. Kelly with less than 120 yards and TT with NO room all day long and we were the definition of a juggernaut that season. What Wade did with Atwater, Smith, and an aging Mecklenburg was a thing of beauty for anyone with an appreciation of D scheming. I likened it to a triangle-and-two B-ball defense at the time, but that doesn't do it justice. As I said earlier, I won't be a bit surprised if Wade devises a way to hand the Panthers' offense their collective asses. GO BILLS!!! Edited January 26, 2016 by K-9
3rdand12 Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 I shared a similar thought in another thread. Wade is on my very short list of DCs that I would want to scheme one game/team if I had a choice. Many in this forum don't have a recollection of the '91 AFC championship game, but what Wade did to our offense was masterful. That was Kelly's best year and Thurman won O player of the year honors and Denver just owned us that day. Kelly with less than 120 yards and TT with NO room all day long and we were the definition of a juggernaut that season. What Wade did with Atwater, Smith, and an aging Mecklenburg was a thing of beauty for anyone with an appreciation of D scheming. I likened it to a triangle-and-two B-ball defense at the time, but that doesn't do it justice. As I said earlier, I won't be a bit surprised if Wade devises a way to hand the Panthers' offense their collective asses. GO BILLS!!! this is the Only reason i am watching the game. and that it may well be Manning's last hurrah. Rooting for the Bronco as the underdogs
KD in CA Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 I'm sure a sizable segment of this forum has no recollection of that game given the 24 years since it was played. But that was Kelly's best year and TT won the offensive player of the year award. We were the definition of a juggernaut offense. We rolled over people. But Wade handed us our asses in that game. Held Kelly to less than 120 yards passing, Thurman had NO room all day, and we were held to a measly FG for the game. I was driving my friends nuts by constantly uttering my amazement at what that defense was doing to us that day; they wanted me to switch seats! But I had to tip my hat to what that defense did. It was incredible. Our defense did a great job as well and it was fitting that they won it for us that day. GO BILLS!!! I remember it. The Bills were lucky to get out with a win that day. Treadwell hitting the upright twice -- never seen that before or since.
YoloinOhio Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 @jamesalight Can't wait to breakdown the All-22, but Wade Phillips gameplan reminded me a lot of Rex Ryan's in 2010 playoff upset of Pats. Rex got away from the blitz & dropped 7-8 almost the entire game. Confused & kept Brady off balance & flodded short/middle zones w/ coverage What made Wade Phillips version even more lethal was the pass rush. Dominated with 3 or 4 up front all game.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Former Cowboys coach Wade Phillips fits better as coordinator than head coach Former Dallas Cowboys head coach Wade Phillips is doing what he does best: coaching the defense.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Again this is pure hyperbole. The DLs didn't drop back nearly as much as people think they did. But if it helps to build a narrative, then by all means go ahead I am seriously asking for those numbers so we can all make a determination on whether they are being asked to drop into coverage too much or not. So no hyperbole, or even a statement, here. Hughes and Miller have no problem dropping into coverage, and both do it pretty well. I have no problem with Hughes' effort this season. I'm interested in the Ware/Mario comparison. Just to get a read on how bad the Mario situation really was. If both are being asked to drop the same amount, and Ware is doing it happily, and Mario is complaining, then it shows what type of player we have. If Mario is being asked to drop much more than Ware, then it sheds some light on how Rex runs things vs. how Wade runs things. Etc. So, since you seem to know the numbers, what are they? Any insight to share?
GG Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 I am seriously asking for those numbers so we can all make a determination on whether they are being asked to drop into coverage too much or not. So no hyperbole, or even a statement, here. Hughes and Miller have no problem dropping into coverage, and both do it pretty well. I have no problem with Hughes' effort this season. I'm interested in the Ware/Mario comparison. Just to get a read on how bad the Mario situation really was. If both are being asked to drop the same amount, and Ware is doing it happily, and Mario is complaining, then it shows what type of player we have. If Mario is being asked to drop much more than Ware, then it sheds some light on how Rex runs things vs. how Wade runs things. Etc. So, since you seem to know the numbers, what are they? Any insight to share? There have been a couple of threads on this with the number being around 2.5% of passing plays. I looked at a couple of games where Mario complained about dropping back in coverage, specifically Cincinnati, and counted four drop backs, all in the second half. Rex mixed up the D at the half a bit because Dalton was gouging them with the RB swing pass in the 1st. Dropping Mario to take away the easy toss to the RB worked, as did a few of the plays that I watched where Dareus dropped back. People have this notion that Mario & Dareus were asked to cover WRs & TEs, when in reality they were dropping a few yards off the LoS to take away the quick underneath toss. The reason that some of those plays didn't work is that the pass rush still didn't get to the QBs by the time they locked in on the secondary target.
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Interesting article about how Wade Phillips outschemed the Pats O. Blitz-happy Wade only blitzed on 1 of 6 plays and yet pressured the hell out of Brady. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14642395/gary-kubiak-wade-phillips-dialed-gem-get-bill-belichick-tom-brady-nfl This isn't news to me since this is pretty much how the Giants beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl. This news to you?
Prickly Pete Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 I am seriously asking for those numbers so we can all make a determination on whether they are being asked to drop into coverage too much or not. So no hyperbole, or even a statement, here. Hughes and Miller have no problem dropping into coverage, and both do it pretty well. I have no problem with Hughes' effort this season. I'm interested in the Ware/Mario comparison. Just to get a read on how bad the Mario situation really was. If both are being asked to drop the same amount, and Ware is doing it happily, and Mario is complaining, then it shows what type of player we have. If Mario is being asked to drop much more than Ware, then it sheds some light on how Rex runs things vs. how Wade runs things. Etc. So, since you seem to know the numbers, what are they? Any insight to share? I don't know if that is the best test. It's a lot easier to accept your role when your team is winning, and going to the Super Bowl, as opposed to a floundering team, with a big mouth coach pushing a new scheme, and trying to get to the playoffs for the time in 20 years.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Former Cowboys coach Wade Phillips fits better as coordinator than head coach It's unfortunate that this has to be pointed out..........but the truth was that Wade was nothing more than a mediocre re-tread type of HC whose inattention to detail was never going to work as a HC. Give him middling talent, he'll finish last. Give him great talent, he will get you beat in the first round of the playoffs........as evidenced by the few times he had SB capable talent between the Buffalo and Dallas jobs.
machine gun kelly Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 You mean Wade didn't call the "all world defensive guru, rex" and take a page of having Von Miller and Ware drop back 45% of the time. Huh? wouldn't you think it's best to take the best pass rushers on the team and place them into coverage. That's the difference. Wade game plans based on each team, and knows his players strengths, let's them play to their strengths, and play loose. Rex on the other hand, well? Every time i hear an interview on Sirius of coaches or managers saying, that is the best thing about this coach or that coach, is get me great players and I'll make that work. Rex said that this off season, but he doesn't do it. Tampa's GM commented how Mike Smith really does do that. One of the announcers stated, well that is what the best coaches do. Well, RR, you have one year to go all in on your defense, not mix yours and Schwartz (I still think that was an excuse), and deliver a top 5 defense. By his bragging comments, really should be a top 3. What really sucks is the 13th rated offense with a top 2-3 defense would have meant the playoffs. Sorry, had to rant. i know i stated the obvious. UGGHH!!!!!
K-9 Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 You mean Wade didn't call the "all world defensive guru, rex" and take a page of having Von Miller and Ware drop back 45% of the time. Huh? wouldn't you think it's best to take the best pass rushers on the team and place them into coverage. That's the difference. Wade game plans based on each team, and knows his players strengths, let's them play to their strengths, and play loose. Rex on the other hand, well? Every time i hear an interview on Sirius of coaches or managers saying, that is the best thing about this coach or that coach, is get me great players and I'll make that work. Rex said that this off season, but he doesn't do it. Tampa's GM commented how Mike Smith really does do that. One of the announcers stated, well that is what the best coaches do. Well, RR, you have one year to go all in on your defense, not mix yours and Schwartz (I still think that was an excuse), and deliver a top 5 defense. By his bragging comments, really should be a top 3. What really sucks is the 13th rated offense with a top 2-3 defense would have meant the playoffs. Sorry, had to rant. i know i stated the obvious. UGGHH!!!!! Wade dropped them both into coverage. Miller's INT was a direct result of that. It's not a question of dropping players into coverage. It's a question of dropping players into coverage that can actually do that effectively. And then not B word about it. GO BILLS!!!
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