DC Tom Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 I'll say it again: Wade Philips is the best defensive coordinator since...ever. Gets more out of linebackers than anyone (John Holoceck, anyone? Sam Rogers? Mark Maddox? Not surprising Von Miller is a beast in Phillips' schemes.) Phenomenal at game-planning a defensive scheme, and flexible as hell in his scheming (remember when he had to convert to a 4-3 in a week, after Holoceck and Covington went down, and gave Miami absolute fits?) As a DC, he's consistently produced top-5 defenses. Don't think much of him as a head coach...but damn, if anyone should get in to the HoF as an assistant coach, it's him. Phillips drew up a number of exotic looks to try to create mismatches and confusion among the Patriots' offensive line. He was able to do this -- at least in part -- because the Broncos simply didn't fear that the Patriots were ever going to be able to run the football. Denver kept just five men in the box on 30 offensive snaps Sunday. During a typical regular-season game, they would only employ that tactic in obvious passing situations, employing five men in the box less than 10 times per contest. Nit to pick with the article: it misses the very obvious point that with the Patriots and Brady under center, every down is an "obvious passing situation." They simply don't run the ball - they use the no-read short pass in its place. Phillips' game-planning for it is obvious in retrospect...he just had the foresight, and the game-planning ability, and Von Miller, to actually do it.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 That and no Dion Lewis/Blount. It was laughable watching them try to throw that wheel route to White over and over. Doesn't matter if they are open if they lack the ball skills to locate and accelerate to the ball and then secure it. The unexpected byproduct of the NFL becoming a pass first league is that the talent at the RB position has been so diminished that backs that can actually catch a ball thrown more than 10 yards downfield are now a rarity. The Bills got one that they pay $8M per year and he can't do it either.
YoloinOhio Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 I'll say it again: Wade Philips is the best defensive coordinator since...ever. Gets more out of linebackers than anyone (John Holoceck, anyone? Sam Rogers? Mark Maddox? Not surprising Von Miller is a beast in Phillips' schemes.) Phenomenal at game-planning a defensive scheme, and flexible as hell in his scheming (remember when he had to convert to a 4-3 in a week, after Holoceck and Covington went down, and gave Miami absolute fits?) As a DC, he's consistently produced top-5 defenses. Don't think much of him as a head coach...but damn, if anyone should get in to the HoF as an assistant coach, it's him. Nit to pick with the article: it misses the very obvious point that with the Patriots and Brady under center, every down is an "obvious passing situation." They simply don't run the ball - they use the no-read short pass in its place. Phillips' game-planning for it is obvious in retrospect...he just had the foresight, and the game-planning ability, and Von Miller, to actually do it. it was perfect for the Pats. Until their two starting safeties went out and they got exposed in MOF by Brady/Gronk and almost lost. Wade had a great game plan and he has a phenomenal roster. Obviously these tactics won't work vs Cam or any team with a mobile QB and running game - but he has 2 weeks.
nonprophet Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Yeah, I didn't mean to say that Wade single-handedly won the game. Players matter and Denver's D has some talented guys. But it was good to see that Wade won the chess match - and how he did it. Wondering what the Bills coaching staff might learn from this. Next to nothing; Rex's D already features mostly the same elements. The biggest difference is the players. I didn't see Thurman employing the Wide 9 strategy in a 3-man front in the Bills' first match with the Pats* but, in his defense, Dion Lewis was in that game and the regular Wide 9 in a 4-man front wasn't working anyway. Edited January 25, 2016 by nonprophet
John from Riverside Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 What is kind of funny If Denver had our running game to go with their D? They would have humiliated the Pats
ricojes Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 It was an interesting match-up coming into the game. Brady loves to throw short quick passes and Denver led the league in defending the short pass. Julian Edelman was a non-factor, they covered the short routes where he excels perfectly. Wade had a game plan that was executed well, he is one of the best defensive minds in the game. Didn't see it, but they mentioned on the broadcast the BB went up to Wade after the game a praised his scheme...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 I hate reading these "How Team X Beat the Pats" articles, because they never tell us anything we dont already know. Get Pressure with your D Line and HIT HIM! Dont let TEs and WRs get clean releases Mix up Zone and Man Isolate your TEs Very simple. Not sure why we have still NEVER tried it all at once. the Bills coaching staff did the same thing in November. Denver has better players. I'd say we have very SIMILAR players, talent-wise. They even used Miller like we use Hughes, dropping him into coverage. The main difference between Hughes/Mario and Miller/Ware is that Ware wanted to play OLB in a 3-4, whereas Mario came in and said "Im only a 4-3 DE, and I only want to line up against the RT". Denver has better LBs in Marshall and Trevathan, but Id say thats about it. IMO. We match them almost everywhere else.
ricojes Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 I hate reading these "How Team X Beat the Pats" articles, because they never tell us anything we dont already know. Get Pressure with your D Line and HIT HIM! Dont let TEs and WRs get clean releases Mix up Zone and Man Isolate your TEs Very simple. Not sure why we have still NEVER tried it all at once. It reminded me of the Giants defensive game plan in SB 46...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 It reminded me of the Giants defensive game plan in SB 46... EXACTLY! There is a very simple, and very direct script already written. It has existed for at least 5 years. We've never tried it ONCE.
YoloinOhio Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) I hate reading these "How Team X Beat the Pats" articles, because they never tell us anything we dont already know. Get Pressure with your D Line and HIT HIM! Dont let TEs and WRs get clean releases Mix up Zone and Man Isolate your TEs Very simple. Not sure why we have still NEVER tried it all at once. I'd say we have very SIMILAR players, talent-wise. They even used Miller like we use Hughes, dropping him into coverage. The main difference between Hughes/Mario and Miller/Ware is that Ware wanted to play OLB in a 3-4, whereas Mario came in and said "Im only a 4-3 DE, and I only want to line up against the RT". Denver has better LBs in Marshall and Trevathan, but Id say thats about it. IMO. We match them almost everywhere else. not similar on front 7 or safeties.we didn't have Kyle at all and Mario was out half the game. Even when Mario played he played about half the speed of Ware who actually cares. Hughes is a very good player, not even close to Miller. Derek Wolfe, Malik Jackson, Danny Travathan... It just isn't really close with what we had available that game and who they had yesterday. We had Carrington/IK, Dareus, Bryant, Hughes. Not similar. I like our CBs a lot but Denver's three of Harris, Talib and Robey are considered the best group in the league. Our CBs though are probably the only similar group to Denver's. Safeties of Graham and Duke Williams/McKelvin vs TJ Ward and Darian Stewart? We didn't even have Rambo most of that game. Denver's personnel on D is healthy and phenomenally talented. Edited January 25, 2016 by YoloinOhio
DrDawkinstein Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 not similar on front 7 or safeties.we didn't have Kyle at all and Mario was out half the game. Even when Mario played he played about half the speed of Ware who actually cares. Hughes is a very good player, not even close to Miller. Derek Wolfe, Malik Jackson, Danny Travathan... It just isn't really close with what we had available that game and who they had yesterday. I like our CBs a lot but Denver's three of Harris, Talib and Robey are considered the best group in the league. Safeties of Graham and Duke Williams/McKelvin vs TJ Ward and Darian Stewart? We didn't even have Rambo most of that game. Denver's personnel on D is healthy and phenomenally talented. I wasnt comparing just that November game. Sorry to jump in mid-convo. I just see a lot of similarities on how that D is built and what the Bills are trying to build. Especially with the Miller/Ware-Hughes/Mario combos that could be similar, if Mario cared.
YoloinOhio Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) I wasnt comparing just that November game. Sorry to jump in mid-convo. I just see a lot of similarities on how that D is built and what the Bills are trying to build. Especially with the Miller/Ware-Hughes/Mario combos that could be similar, if Mario cared. ah - my post was regarding the Bills mnf game vs the Pats and Denver's yesterday. People who say "Bills coaches take notes! They can learn a lot!" They had a very similar game plan, two months earlier. and just as effective. but talent not the same. And it was a prime time game at Foxboro so didn't have crowd noise. I'm not saying Rex scheme is as good as Wade. I don't know that. But the whole "hope bills coaches learn from this!!" Is amusing to say the least. I can't remember who said it on the radio but they were talking about how Wade had always struggled vs Brady with his D. Funny how you get a team full of healthy, top notch talent for your personnel and that changes. Edited January 25, 2016 by YoloinOhio
prissythecat Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 It was laughable watching them try to throw that wheel route to White over and over. Doesn't matter if they are open if they lack the ball skills to locate and accelerate to the ball and then secure it. The unexpected byproduct of the NFL becoming a pass first league is that the talent at the RB position has been so diminished that backs that can actually catch a ball thrown more than 10 yards downfield are now a rarity. The Bills got one that they pay $8M per year and he can't do it either. Shady sucks?
BADOLBILZ Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 The main difference between Hughes/Mario and Miller/Ware is that Ware wanted to play OLB in a 3-4, whereas Mario came in and said "Im only a 4-3 DE, and I only want to line up against the RT". Not actually true. When Rex was hired Mario said he was excited to play the OLB position like he did in Wade's D. For some reason people on TSW seem to think Mario left Houston because he didn't want to play OLB for Wade but he was having a career year under Wade before he got injured.
BuffaloMatt Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Happy at the result but Pats* O-line was atrocious.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Shady sucks? RB's who gain yards on the ground but can also split out and play pseudo-WR are rare once again. When the league started to trend more toward passing during the Niners dynasty......when defenses weren't playing nickel D as their base the way they do today.......there was great demand for backs like Roger Craig or Thurman Thomas who could smoke LB's on wheel routes like the ones unsuccessfully attempted to James White by the Patriots yesterday. But as the league has become even more about passing......a lot of the great athletes that would have once played RB now play AGAINST the pass on defense as edge rushers or in the secondary. Because that's where the money is. $8M per year is a goddamm fortune to pay a RB nowadays.......ridiculous money that none of the top 4 teams that played yesterday pay anything remotely close to........but a top corner or edge rusher can make A LOT more. Shady is kind of out of place in the modern NFL. Teams want to run the ball to pound on nickel and dime defenses and enhance their passing game. As evidenced by the fact that the league's leading rushers this season were almost all 225-235# RB's. Shady is a nifty RB.......but not a guy as a DC that is going to take you out of your nickel defense so his production is in many ways "soft". And when the opportunity does arise to hit him with a pass downfield...........he doesn't show the ball skills you would expect from a high dollar small back. In the screen game and on shorter passes, he's solid but once you get 10-20 yards downfield he isn't catching that throw. Mediocre receiving skills.......and he's not alone. It's a league trend. It's just that 20 years ago you would expect a shifty 200# back to be a threat on the wheel. Times have changed.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Not actually true. When Rex was hired Mario said he was excited to play the OLB position like he did in Wade's D. For some reason people on TSW seem to think Mario left Houston because he didn't want to play OLB for Wade but he was having a career year under Wade before he got injured. Well what he said, and what he did, were certainly 2 very different things.
boyst Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 I hate reading these "How Team X Beat the Pats" articles, because they never tell us anything we dont already know. Get Pressure with your D Line and HIT HIM! Dont let TEs and WRs get clean releases Mix up Zone and Man Isolate your TEs Very simple. Not sure why we have still NEVER tried it all at once. I'd say we have very SIMILAR players, talent-wise. They even used Miller like we use Hughes, dropping him into coverage. The main difference between Hughes/Mario and Miller/Ware is that Ware wanted to play OLB in a 3-4, whereas Mario came in and said "Im only a 4-3 DE, and I only want to line up against the RT". Denver has better LBs in Marshall and Trevathan, but Id say thats about it. IMO. We match them almost everywhere else. exactly. You beat the Patriots the same way every time. You put up a pass rush minimizing the number of bodies used whilst clogging the field, passing lanes and coverage. The Bills have done this many times, the Jets would do this and Dolphins do it, too. You drop everyone, play a cover 1. You rush 3 regular rushers and bring one unseen player. It's a tired article with just teams and names changed. EXACTLY! There is a very simple, and very direct script already written. It has existed for at least 5 years. We've never tried it ONCE. yeah, we did. back with fitz when we won however long ago that was, we did this.
Prickly Pete Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Yeah, I didn't mean to say that Wade single-handedly won the game. Players matter and Denver's D has some talented guys. But it was good to see that Wade won the chess match - and how he did it. Wondering what the Bills coaching staff might learn from this. Agree. I love Wade the DC. I'm mostly impressed with how well the Broncos are run. They have a great roster.
dave mcbride Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 RB's who gain yards on the ground but can also split out and play pseudo-WR are rare once again. When the league started to trend more toward passing during the Niners dynasty......when defenses weren't playing nickel D as their base the way they do today.......there was great demand for backs like Roger Craig or Thurman Thomas who could smoke LB's on wheel routes like the ones unsuccessfully attempted to James White by the Patriots yesterday. But as the league has become even more about passing......a lot of the great athletes that would have once played RB now play AGAINST the pass on defense as edge rushers or in the secondary. Because that's where the money is. $8M per year is a goddamm fortune to pay a RB nowadays.......ridiculous money that none of the top 4 teams that played yesterday pay anything remotely close to........but a top corner or edge rusher can make A LOT more. Shady is kind of out of place in the modern NFL. Teams want to run the ball to pound on nickel and dime defenses and enhance their passing game. As evidenced by the fact that the league's leading rushers this season were almost all 225-235# RB's. Shady is a nifty RB.......but not a guy as a DC that is going to take you out of your nickel defense so his production is in many ways "soft". And when the opportunity does arise to hit him with a pass downfield...........he doesn't show the ball skills you would expect from a high dollar small back. In the screen game and on shorter passes, he's solid but once you get 10-20 yards downfield he isn't catching that throw. Mediocre receiving skills.......and he's not alone. It's a league trend. It's just that 20 years ago you would expect a shifty 200# back to be a threat on the wheel. Times have changed. Ironically, Deion Lewis - a successor to Shady at Pitt -- has those ball skills downfield. He was missed yesterday.
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