Fadingpain Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 In my opinion, older Star Wars fans gravitate to the original trilogy as "the best" simply b/c we were all little kids or at least young when those movies came out, and so they spoke to us in a way no movie is going to once you are an adult. They seemed better to us than they were. All of the original 3 movies, when simply viewed as films and judged by the standards of great films, are horrible movies. George Lucas was afraid they were going to be bombs that ruined his career, and he was the guy making them. He was right. Explaining their unbelievable popularity/appeal is difficult, but interesting. I think they stand up mostly for their excellent visual effects which were quite good for 1977 and later. Lucas also went with a "beaten up and used, real world" look to everything in his universe which was visually interesting and possibly unique at the time. I.E., these were "advanced" civilizations relative to the people watching the films in movie theaters, yet these advanced people still lived in a real world of mechanical failures, repairs, rust, and so on. The story lines are totally derivative, the acting is, for the most part, horrible, the writing is terrible, the casting is worse than the acting, for the most part.... And yet they remain really cool movies that are fun to watch. Their artistic direction/set design/visual effects/costume design...all that sort of thing.. are all A+. I think that is 100% what makes the movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 18 minutes ago, Tiberius said: The Death Star could of just flew away from those little fighters. Isn't that right? The little fighters would have been way slower than a big death star if the thing was a space ship. "Well, the Empire doesn't consider a small one-man fighter to be any threat. Or they'd have a tighter defense." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 35 minutes ago, GETTOTHE50 said: Idk how to rank the original trilogy, they could all be 1-3. i put phantom menace 4. Why? Because I think Liam neeson plays a strong lead, we don't have to deal with anakins crappy lines, and because maul, I think, was the best villain of the prequels. The lightsaber duel is awesome in that movie. Phantom Menace was pretty lousy, but I did enjoy the 3-person light saber duel which was kind of unique at the time, and also how the bad guy with red face had a 2-ended light saber which was definitely a first. Their duel was fantastic and the choreography was really cool. The decision to give red face the long, flowing garment was great, b/c it would fly all over Kung-Fu style when he did flips and stuff and looked visually fantastic. The way his body slowly drifted into 2 pieces as he fell down the bottomless pit was also cool and artistic. BUT: that whole scene is beyond infuriating b/c Lucas, as always, felt the need to chop the duel up into about 8 separate scenes, with annoying disruptions interspersed throughout. Totally destroyed any presence or gravity the fight had, and is just annoying. There is actually a clip on youtube where someone editing out all the distractions, and just splice the fight sequences together; that is much, much better than what appeared in the actual film. My God I hate George Lucas' approach to film making. For a guy who invented the most popular movie franchise of all time and built a net worth of like $3.5 billion in the process, he sucks as a movie maker! LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: "Well, the Empire doesn't consider a small one-man fighter to be any threat. Or they'd have a tighter defense." Right! Good point. And if they did they could have just flown around the tiny slow fighters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: In my opinion, older Star Wars fans gravitate to the original trilogy as "the best" simply b/c we were all little kids or at least young when those movies came out, and so they spoke to us in a way no movie is going to once you are an adult. They seemed better to us than they were. All of the original 3 movies, when simply viewed as films and judged by the standards of great films, are horrible movies. George Lucas was afraid they were going to be bombs that ruined his career, and he was the guy making them. He was right. Explaining their unbelievable popularity/appeal is difficult, but interesting. I think they stand up mostly for their excellent visual effects which were quite good for 1977 and later. Lucas also went with a "beaten up and used, real world" look to everything in his universe which was visually interesting and possibly unique at the time. I.E., these were "advanced" civilizations relative to the people watching the films in movie theaters, yet these advanced people still lived in a real world of mechanical failures, repairs, rust, and so on. The story lines are totally derivative, the acting is, for the most part, horrible, the writing is terrible, the casting is worse than the acting, for the most part.... And yet they remain really cool movies that are fun to watch. Their artistic direction/set design/visual effects/costume design...all that sort of thing.. are all A+. I think that is 100% what makes the movies. You have a most unusual approach to these movies. I agree with you that most Star Wars fans will call the original trilogy the best. Although I think "Return of the Jedi" is just alright. I don't see where you are coming from on the thought that these movies are horrible, no matter what you are comparing them too. I've seen horrible movies, and that is not what I get from watching any of the Star Wars films. Granted the writing in these movies are nothing special. What George Lucas lacks in that area, he makes up for in story telling. I also agree with you that it's the visuals that are what sticks with most fans. The special effects at the time were dazzling, and are still very impressive even to this day. Considering that they were using models back then. There are also a lot of memorable shots from these films that stay with you after you've seen them. Your final point is what really personifies these movies.....they are FUN. That is the one thing that makes them enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 13 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: You have a most unusual approach to these movies. I agree with you that most Star Wars fans will call the original trilogy the best. Although I think "Return of the Jedi" is just alright. I don't see where you are coming from on the thought that these movies are horrible, no matter what you are comparing them too. I've seen horrible movies, and that is not what I get from watching any of the Star Wars films. Granted the writing in these movies are nothing special. What George Lucas lacks in that area, he makes up for in story telling. I also agree with you that it's the visuals that are what sticks with most fans. The special effects at the time were dazzling, and are still very impressive even to this day. Considering that they were using models back then. There are also a lot of memorable shots from these films that stay with you after you've seen them. Your final point is what really personifies these movies.....they are FUN. That is the one thing that makes them enjoyable. Lucas is a tech-nerd who is interested in that end of film making and only that end of film making. He obviously has no use for things like good actors. I stand by my statement that the films are, for the most part, bad films. Acting is terrible, casting is worse, dialogue might be worse than that. The script is the life blood of any film; the script in all these movies "Rebel Scum!" is beyond bad. Lucas wanted to make old fashioned serials for kids and he succeeded. I love these movies, but I was 6 when the first one came out. Not sure I would have been hooked had I seen the first movie when I was an adult. Having said that, the special effects in the newest films are really quite good and the movies make nice eye candy if you enjoy watching things fly around, blow up, etc. But comparing any of these Star Wars films to any true classic like The Godfather, Apocalypse Now, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Dr. Strangelove, Citizen Kane (going down my personal top 10 here in no order)...is ridiculous. They aren't even in the same world as "work of art" films. If you are into sci-fi space films and want true ahead-of-its time special effects, go back and watch 2001 again. That movie was 1968 I believe; incredible how good that film looks; it completely holds up today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 3 hours ago, Fadingpain said: Lucas is a tech-nerd who is interested in that end of film making and only that end of film making. He obviously has no use for things like good actors. I stand by my statement that the films are, for the most part, bad films. Acting is terrible, casting is worse, dialogue might be worse than that. The script is the life blood of any film; the script in all these movies "Rebel Scum!" is beyond bad. Lucas wanted to make old fashioned serials for kids and he succeeded. I love these movies, but I was 6 when the first one came out. Not sure I would have been hooked had I seen the first movie when I was an adult. Having said that, the special effects in the newest films are really quite good and the movies make nice eye candy if you enjoy watching things fly around, blow up, etc. But comparing any of these Star Wars films to any true classic like The Godfather, Apocalypse Now, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Dr. Strangelove, Citizen Kane (going down my personal top 10 here in no order)...is ridiculous. They aren't even in the same world as "work of art" films. If you are into sci-fi space films and want true ahead-of-its time special effects, go back and watch 2001 again. That movie was 1968 I believe; incredible how good that film looks; it completely holds up today. I see your point, and I guess it's all about perspective. I grew up watching "Star Wars" and I still watch them today. Yes, they may not be the greatest movies ever made, but they do have their charm, and they are very enjoyable. I will disagree on them being terrible movies. Yes, some of the writing is bad, especially in "Phantom Menace" & "Attack of the Clones". Do you feel that the current Star Wars films are better made, now that Lucas is out of the picture? As much as I enjoyed "The Force Awakens", I will also admit that "Rogue One" was a damn good movie. As for "2001: A Space Odyssey", I agree it's a remarkable film, and yes it was made in 1968. The one drawback to "2001" is that it is one of the slowest paced movies ever made. That doesn't bother me, because it is an artsy movie, but it's not for everyone. My all-time favorite Disney movie is "Fantasia", that film is a complete work of art, and that was made in 1940. Again people might not see what the big deal is about "Fantasia". I'm curious to know, would you hold the same type of feeling to a movie like "JAWS"? Which when you get down to it is basically a glorified monster movie and it just hit it big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfansinceday1 Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 We are looking forward to seeing the movie. While touring Ireland in May of 2016, we saw huge vans winding up a narrow road to the cliffs of the Dingle Peninsula. They were filming The Last Jedi. The locals in the pubs were very hush hush and armed guards blocked the road up to the site. i would post pics but they are too large for this website. It’s hard to find pics less than .2MB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) Seeing it tonight. Star Wars is my favorite movie franchise. It's iconic. I am one with the force and the force is with me. Edited December 16, 2017 by LeGOATski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 On 12/14/2017 at 6:32 PM, DC Tom said: Return of the Jedi was the best...from a certain point of view. You don't have to hide it anymore. We already know about your secret Ewok fetish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, Mark Vader said: I see your point, and I guess it's all about perspective. I grew up watching "Star Wars" and I still watch them today. Yes, they may not be the greatest movies ever made, but they do have their charm, and they are very enjoyable. I will disagree on them being terrible movies. Yes, some of the writing is bad, especially in "Phantom Menace" & "Attack of the Clones". Do you feel that the current Star Wars films are better made, now that Lucas is out of the picture? As much as I enjoyed "The Force Awakens", I will also admit that "Rogue One" was a damn good movie. As for "2001: A Space Odyssey", I agree it's a remarkable film, and yes it was made in 1968. The one drawback to "2001" is that it is one of the slowest paced movies ever made. That doesn't bother me, because it is an artsy movie, but it's not for everyone. My all-time favorite Disney movie is "Fantasia", that film is a complete work of art, and that was made in 1940. Again people might not see what the big deal is about "Fantasia". I'm curious to know, would you hold the same type of feeling to a movie like "JAWS"? Which when you get down to it is basically a glorified monster movie and it just hit it big. Interesting dialogue between you and Fadingpain. I certainly agree that the writing is pedestrian and much of the casting indifferent. I don't see how anyone would dismiss Alex Guinness as an actor and while Han Solo is a conventional character, Harrison Ford inhabits that character in an especially effective way. In my view, Star Wars taps into a mythic consciousness, so it's not a real negative to note deriviative sources. The original trilogy rises above the obvious limitations. Edited December 16, 2017 by Dr. Who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPre Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 The Last Jedi ruined the latest Star Wars trilogy. Force Awakens was a reboot of the franchise, but at least it raised questions people enjoyed theorizing about. What does the Last Jedi do? Practically throws everything out the window w/ next to no thought. I'm about to the point of thinking only Episodes 1 - 6 were made. Gotta say good luck to JJ Abrams when he attempts to right the ship in Episode 9. He's going to need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 51 minutes ago, GoPre said: The Last Jedi ruined the latest Star Wars trilogy. Force Awakens was a reboot of the franchise, but at least it raised questions people enjoyed theorizing about. What does the Last Jedi do? Practically throws everything out the window w/ next to no thought. I'm about to the point of thinking only Episodes 1 - 6 were made. Gotta say good luck to JJ Abrams when he attempts to right the ship in Episode 9. He's going to need it. I only consider Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi to be canon.... and that belief has only been reinforced in the years since Phantom Menace opening night. As such, I approach the prequels and reboots as pure popcorn movies & nothing else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 On 12/15/2017 at 10:54 AM, Joe Miner said: I wasn't the biggest fan of the 1st half of the movie. Pretty sloppy storylines IMO. But the second half took off. Fantastic second half. I certainly left excited for episode 9. Saw it today and agree about the first half. I didn't care for the Laura Dern character. Was glad when she took one for the team. On 12/15/2017 at 11:51 AM, Mark Vader said: Great job by Rian Johnson, and I really liked Benicio Del Toro's character in this movie. Looking forward to Episode IX. Did he definitively survive or get killed off? I didn't catch either and was expecting him to reappear late in the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 37 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said: Did he definitively survive or get killed off? I didn't catch either and was expecting him to reappear late in the movie. I'm sure he survived. He got what he came for and left with his earnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 i hvae seen 5 or 6 of these i don't get the hype. i really don't. i don't see what is so super amazing about something like this compared to the marvel movies, for example. the last one to came out i went to see in the theatres, nothing to write home about. the original 3 that came out in the 80's were pretty neat but i didn't think they were that cool. i saw the first 3 of the trilogy and was bored to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 I'm feeling the same disappointment as others. This story was not told well enough. Some simple tweaks/additions/subtractions would've made it a much better movie. The movie looked/sounded great and I was entertained, but it didn't intrigue me the way all the other Star Wars movies have. I'm thinking Abrams will tie it all together nicely in Episode 9. It shouldn't be too hard and there are opportunities for a big reveal. 6 hours ago, Mark Vader said: I'm sure he survived. He got what he came for and left with his earnings. I'd love to know more of his story. He's a great mercenary/lone wolf character like Boba Fett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 I gave it a 4 out of 5 Solid movie Speaking in generalities for anyone that hasn't seen it: I felt that the respective demises of certain characters were underwhelming, and I was really looking for more depth and backstory with characters like Kylo (and the other knights of Ren), Snoke, and Phasma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 1 hour ago, thebandit27 said: I gave it a 4 out of 5 Solid movie Speaking in generalities for anyone that hasn't seen it: I felt that the respective demises of certain characters were underwhelming, and I was really looking for more depth and backstory with characters like Kylo (and the other knights of Ren), Snoke, and Phasma. That would have been great. That's how a lot of people felt about Darth Maul. They have these impressionable and memorable villains, but do little with them character wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Last Jedi was god awful. Plot holes abound and they pissed all over Luke Skywalker, making him nearly detestable. Constantly insulted the discerning fans intelligence. I'm sure I'll watch it again when the kids ask for it for family movie night, but I don't really care to, nor do I really care where they go from here. That said, I'm still looking forward to seeing the Han Solo movie. If they screw that up I may be done with Star Disney Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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