dwight in philly Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 They are seriously considering a total and complete retrofit of RWS, like GB did with Lambeau field, IMO. i pray that you are right! the thought of a sterile dome downtown really stinks. we have endured enough with 15 years of Sh$*^ ty football, why further torture us.
Very wide right Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 I haven't heard anything. You would think they would take advantage of the NYS money in enhancements to the current stadium, and exact a long term plan for a breaking ground around 2022. Heres an idea, how about repairing the roads and bridges in Buffalo then support the education system instead of building a tax payer funded stadium so idiots can have sex in the parking lot and set themselves on fire? RWS is a great stadium and there is NO reason to move it.Fans seem to enjoy the venue.They DO need to hire a lot more security though and crack down on the trash that seems to be growing every season.The state and county have done a good job maintaining the place season to season .
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 Heres an idea, how about repairing the roads and bridges in Buffalo then support the education system instead of building a tax payer funded stadium so idiots can have sex in the parking lot and set themselves on fire? RWS is a great stadium and there is NO reason to move it.Fans seem to enjoy the venue.They DO need to hire a lot more security though and crack down on the trash that seems to be growing every season.The state and county have done a good job maintaining the place season to season . What's wrong with sex in parking lots? How else are you going to get your new Reggie Ragland jersey?
Hammered a Lot Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 A downtown stadium will mean less traffic because there are more than two roads in and out of downtown Buffalo. Also, downtown roads handle more people on a daily basis than go to a football game on Sunday. I wonder why it takes so long after a sabres game (18000) to get out of the lots.
BaaadThingsMan Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) You have a complex now located on 196 acres, You won't find that downtown.This is fine, I have a feeling the NFL will continue to push for a new stadium downtown though. Jerrah is sick of sharing and wants to shove all his $$ up his pompous old ass. My argument against a new stadium has to do with the cost of going to a game. I know theres new money around and growth in the area is impressive but a new stadium would price out the average fan, the ones that probably make the most noise and thoroughly enjoy whooping it up and having a great time at the games. Filling a stadium with corporate execs and companies wining and dining clients is not going to provide the kind of atmosphere that will inspire references to the "12th" man. Also, with downtown growing legs for the first time in years and businesses taking chances on buildings that have sat empty for years creating trendy shops and neighborhoods where do you put it? Save the Ralph, the Lambeau style redux if true is the way to go! Edited January 16, 2016 by NorCalBillsSabres
BringBackFergy Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 Why didn't the OP phrase this question in a sonnet? This is not treatise-worthy.
Formerly Allan in MD Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 What's wrong with sex in parking lots? How else are you going to get your new Reggie Ragland jersey? He showed very little in the title game. I'll stick with my Rags Ragland jersey.
boater Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 I like the upgrading the Ralph idea. Also tailgating as we know it would cease to exist downtown. A new stadium would be built with some public funding. Taxes are already high enough.
BringBackFergy Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 I like the upgrading the Ralph idea. Also tailgating as we know it would cease to exist downtown. A new stadium would be built with some public funding. Taxes are already high enough. How would tailgating cease to exist?? Maybe "jumping on fire tables" and acting like a drunken fool would be monitored or more arrests of obnoxious fans, but would there be a ban on a group/family gathering for BBQ and beers before a game? Seriously, I've heard people say tailgating would disappear but I don't know if that is the case.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 I wouldn't be in such a hurry to want the new stadium. It's going to be downtown and tailgating will be a shell of what it is now. Also higher ticket prices and more traffic. I think we need to enjoy the Ralph while we can So I haven't lived in B'lo in *bleep* years nor been back in an "explore the city, check out what's going on" sense. A number of other stadiums around the league work because they have efficient and convenient public transportation feeding them. Tailgating still works because instead of everybody parking their cars, the "ringleader" parks his and sets up the grill and the lawnchairs and everyone else takes the train and walks over to meet him. Anything like efficient light rail/commuter train in B'lo or we still limping around with busses?
K D Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 So I haven't lived in B'lo in *bleep* years nor been back in an "explore the city, check out what's going on" sense. A number of other stadiums around the league work because they have efficient and convenient public transportation feeding them. Tailgating still works because instead of everybody parking their cars, the "ringleader" parks his and sets up the grill and the lawnchairs and everyone else takes the train and walks over to meet him. Anything like efficient light rail/commuter train in B'lo or we still limping around with busses? They are talking about possibly adding another line for the trolley that goes East-West specifically for the new stadium. However this doesn't currently exist so public transportation is basically a joke with just the one trolley line going north-south down main street. Traffic is crazy just going to a Sabres game, I shudder in fear thinking of 4 times as many cars trying to get down there for a football game. I know other cities make tailgating "work" but this is Buffalo and we have always been the best in the league at it. I fear that a downtown stadium will mean a drastically different watered down GameDay experience. I appreciate the Ralph for what it is. Personally, I'm not in a hurry to move!
Beerball Posted January 17, 2016 Author Posted January 17, 2016 I appreciate the Ralph for what it is. Personally, I'm not in a hurry to move! Same here, the question is whether the Pegula's feel the same.
JohnC Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 Same here, the question is whether the Pegula's feel the same. I don't think that Pegulas feel the urgency that many others do. They will take their time and do their due diligence. Their primary focus is the product on the field. If you look at how they handled their canalside development project they didn't talk too much about before they had a well thought out plan to work with. They are not talkers---they are doers. Buying the team is a simple transaction compared to the complexity of planning for and building a stadium. I'm confident that whatever they decide to do it will be well thought out. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11677172/new-buffalo-bills-owner-terry-pegula-urges-patience-new-stadium
zonabb Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 I've worked in a lot of area that deal with development in WNY, public and private. I've followed and continue to ask about this. Personally know some highly placed non-Bills people who are and would be engaged in this. Right now, talk is dead. The belief is a downtown stadium would be the preference BUT what people should consider is that a new stadium is not an imperative. Remember, the stadium committee was seated I believe within a few days of RWS death and before the Pegulas bought the team. All their legwork was done based on assumptions about ownership, the need to possibly entice an owner with a new stadium plan. That sort of died out when Pegula bought the team because of the lease and from what I understand, the Pegula's recognition that a new stadium was not a priority. I still don't think it is for them because as I've said before here, this team does well at the gate even when they suck, which is most of the time. The stadium is basically debt-free for Pegula (not sure if he pays any token fees or anything but it'd be minimal) and so he makes money on the gate hand over fist. A new stadium would require some level of debt service on his part, reducing his profitability to some extent, although higher ticket prices and luxury boxes and suites might bring in more money but is the net greater for him? Here's the bigger issue with a downtown stadium, space and the law. Of the three sites, each has lot and lots of owners that would have to sell. Now, Pegula with his wealth could buy and overpay for each parcel. If not, eminent domain would be his only approach and he'd need the city to do his bidding there. That is a politically touch position to put the city in, to take land from one private entity and give it to another. The Supreme Court ruled eminent domain legal for economic development in Kelo v New London but NYS, I believe, may be one of the states that put restrictions on it. The state and local govts throwing money at a new stadium would call it economic development and there is arguments for an against that. My point about where this is and where it's headed is related to the land issue predominantly. Buying all these properties will take time. Eminent domain would take even more as it would be wrapped up in the legal system. So if you want to keep tabs on it, start following the real estate transactions published in the News on I believe Sundays (used to be). You can see who is buying what. Now, Pegula wouldn't by them as Terrance Pegula but under some corporate entity. NYS corporate ownership is available through a NYS website. Sometimes the owner is listed, sometime a lawyer's office. So you can track who is buying land on those sites. Also, the NFTA is going to extend the metro a few hundred yards to behind the arena. I don't think that's an indication of a new stadium but more so an extension of investment into Canalside and the waterfront. And in any case, it wouldn't get close to any other site than Cobblestone. Lastly, and the most complicated issue is traffic and infrastructure. Absent public transportation, an urban stadium needs to get people there somehow. And one metro line won't be enough even if it dropped fans off at the gate. Lots of parking would be necessary. If you look at the three sites, you'll be hard pressed to find the acreage needed for the stadium and the parking. Think about how far you can walk for a Sabres gam which is served by metro. Now add 50,000 more fans. If I had to guess given the time remaining on the lease, they're in no hurry. They could get by with a couple one or two year extensions on the lease while they try to acquire property, address parking and transportation, deal with funding, etc.
TheBillsOrDie Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 I wouldn't be in such a hurry to want the new stadium. It's going to be downtown and tailgating will be a shell of what it is now. Also higher ticket prices and more traffic. I think we need to enjoy the Ralph while we can Maybe it should be a shell of it's self......Gets pretty gross in some of those lots.
Alaska Darin Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 I wonder why it takes so long after a sabres game (18000) to get out of the lots. Because daily means "all day", not in the hour after a large event. Most people don't live in reality, which is why they propose gazillion dollar edifices at taxpayer event that only host 10 events a year. Rome burns...
machine gun kelly Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 They are seriously considering a total and complete retrofit of RWS, like GB did with Lambeau field, IMO. I haven't lived in Buffalo for over 20 years, but grew up there until 23. I guess my vote doesn't count as I don't pay NYS taxes (thank god), but I love flying up for one to two games each year. It just wouldn't be the same having a stadium downtown. Bills fans are the best tailgaters in the country, and the Ralph is a perfect spot with all of the land, and in a decent neighborhood. Do you know how many stadiums are located in crappy areas of towns because the land is affordable. It would be awesome to sink $400 million dollars into the Ralph and improve the club seats, common areas, etc. They definitely could upgrade the stadium. The notion if we have a state of the art stadium we would ever get a SB is ludicrous. No celebrities, and wealthy folks are going to want to go to Buffalo in February.
Hammered a Lot Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 [quote name="kdiggz" post="3849683" timestamp="1453044744 I appreciate the Ralph for what it is. Personally, I'm not in a hurry to move! Terry loves the Big Tree Inn to much to go downtown!
TheFunPolice Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 I heard that Pegula favored an open air stadium. It was a while ago, but it makes sense why talk has grown silent a bit. IF it is true that he wants an open air stadium, he already has one that doesn't cost him anything. Now, the issue is that the league is going to pressure him a bit BUT we have sort of an unusual situation here. Usually, it's the OWNER who wants a shiny new stadium and makes a lot of noise about it. If the owner seems content then the league really can't do a whole lot. If he's making money (and he is) and the stadium is at least up to minimum standards (and it is) then having the owner be OK with it takes away most of the pressure. Long-term, something needs to be done. Assuming again that Pegula wants an open air stadium, how much sense does a downtown stadium make? You wouldn't host other events there most of the year (that is a bit overblown anyway, IMO). Then suddenly a serious refurb of RWS becomes more attractive, assuming it's even possible. Or even building a brand new stadium right next to RWS and having it be open air (like Denver did for example).
vincec Posted January 17, 2016 Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Because daily means "all day", not in the hour after a large event. Most people don't live in reality, which is why they propose gazillion dollar edifices at taxpayer event that only host 10 events a year. Rome burns... Actually, "daily" means morning and afternoon rush hours, which are approximately the same length as traffic for sporting events. Anyone who thinks leaving the Ralph is easy with no traffic problems please raise your hand. People here are pretending like you can get home in 15 minutes or something. Also, anytime you can spend public money and have something to show for it like a new stadium, and have most of the money go to local businesses (in the design and construction industry) and that will support other local businesses (like restaurants and bars) then I'm all for it. It's a lot better than money that disappears without a trace into overhead positions or the upsurd amount spend on political campaigning. I wonder why it takes so long after a sabres game (18000) to get out of the lots.I take the metro to the Sabres games and have never had a problem getting to and from the games easily and in a timely fashion. Edited January 17, 2016 by vincec
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