Maury Ballstein Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) Yeah I'm a Matt Cassel guy because I accurately reported that two games into the preseason, Cassel was Roman's guy. That makes me a "Cassel guy." Much the same way that when a news reporter reports about ISIS, that makes them an ISIS guy. I also told anyone who was willing to listen that Taylor was named the starter after the third preseason game, so I am also a Taylor guy. I am apparently very conflicted. So what then, did EJ Manuel show you through his first two seasons that led you to be optimistic about his chances going into this offseason? How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you nitpick a half here and there from a player who played well to tell us he actually played poorly after you would cherry pick a half or two from a player who stunk to tell us we should be optimistic? What is the discussion here exactly? Here's how I see it: Everyone: Taylor had a pretty good season. Not ready to induct him into the hall of fame but not bad, not bad. Ryan L Billz: You guys are ridiculous saying he should be in the hall of fame. Everyone: Dude no one is saying that. Ryan L Billz: But he had a few bad halves. Everyone: But what about the rest of the halves where he played well? Ryan L Billz: Well looky what we got here- another fanboy... So what is your assertion here? Are you done ? Lost to Bradford, Cousins, couldn't keep up with Alex Smiffffff. Beat Hoyer, Kellen Moore, Pickspatrick. He is above criticism, or he's the next Bills qb who only beats superscrubs. Guess you already know. Don't act like you didn't browbeat to us to death over Meh Cassell. *popcorn*Hop in. We need you. Hahaha. You hate Tyrod 50x more than I. The LOL'ing Raven started this thing. Edited January 15, 2016 by Ryan L Billz
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 Are you done ? Lost to Bradford, Cousins, couldn't keep up with Alex Smiffffff. Beat Hoyer, Kellen Moore, Pickspatrick. He is above criticism, or he's the next Bills qb who only beats superscrubs. Guess you already know. Don't act like you didn't browbeat to us to death over Meh Cassell. Hop in. We need you. Hahaha. You hate Tyrod 50x more than I. The LOL'ing Raven started this thing. When did football games become a one on one battle?
FireChan Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 When did football games become a one on one battle? QB's have the most effect on W/L and thus are inextricably linked to it.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) When did football games become a one on one battle?You're right. We should give Tyrod's 8th win to Mckelvin Edited January 15, 2016 by Ryan L Billz
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) Are you done ? Lost to Bradford, Cousins, couldn't keep up with Alex Smiffffff. Beat Hoyer, Kellen Moore, Pickspatrick. He is above criticism, or he's the next Bills qb who only beats superscrubs. Guess you already know. I don't believe its a fair to compare a QB in this H2H way. Our defense lost all 3 of the games regarding the QBs that TT "lost" to. Our defense also won the 2 jets games. Its a team game believe it or not... You're right. We should give Tyrod's 8th win to Mckelvin Why don't we mark down the 6th loss for Incognito getting destroyed all game then...? Edited January 15, 2016 by dneveu
Kelly the Dog Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 That RLB is allowed to post his opinion on TT in this topic, whether you believe it's flawed or not. You're kidding yourself if you believe that you wouldn't be all over a topic that said "PFF names EJM the best 3rd quarter preseason QB of all time." Topics about player accomplishments go hand in hand with discussion of their play. I reject bobo's assertion that because this topic is about some random award a flawed website gave out, that posters are not allowed to discuss their opinion of TT's play, regardless of it being positive or negative. Outside of that, I have no dog in the fight. I remember countless posters trying to shout me down in EJ topics because they were supposed to be "positive." TBD never has and hopefully never will be a message board that silences dissenting opinions or creates echo chambers. Outside of that, I don't have a dog in the fight. I am encouraged by TT's performance. I think he had some bright spots. I also temper that opinion with what I believe to be some deep flaws in his game, both seen and unseen. I hope he improves in 2016 and earns a $100 million contract. I can see some reasons for both believing that he will and believing that he won't. I won't pretend that player evaluation is "cut and dried." I believe that even with some positives, it's possible to be down on a player, as I was in EJ's 2013. And it's very possible that players that hasn't established themselves to be very polarizing. Like it or not, just because TT had a better first season as a starter than EJM, does not mean that I have to like him more. I could, and I am more likely to like him, but it just doesn't mean that. Player opinion is just that, opinion. It is sometimes logically inconsistent. It's that simple. Very good post.
FireChan Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 I don't believe its a fair to compare a QB in this H2H way. Our defense lost all 3 of the games regarding the QBs that TT "lost" to. Our defense also won the 2 jets games. Its a team game believe it or not... I don't agree. We had 0 points at halftime against the Redskins. While the defense did terribly that game, TT picked up no slack. If you want to divide the game into units, both the defense and offense failed in that one. TT also threw the game-sealing INT in the Eagles game, while completing just barely over 50% of his passes. An argument again splitting the game into units, the defense again failed by allowing the go-ahead FG, but TT failed to answer, or to muster a point in the 4th Q. He gets a C in that game and definitely contributed to the loss. And now onto KC. TT had a great first half, but then faltered in the second half. He neglected to throw to the WR that had accumulated well over 100 yards in the first half. When KC scored the "go ahead" TD to make the game 21-16, TT responded with his first drive in the second half by fumbling on our own 31. The defense actually held them to 3 plays and a FG. He then scored a TD to bring the game within 2, but was sacked on the game-tying conversion. Again breaking the game into units, the defense failed and Taylor gets a B- for that game. Scoring 6 points in a half isn't going to cut it, especially considering the neglect regarding Watkins. Very good post. The streak ends today!
John from Riverside Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 Are you done ? Lost to Bradford, Cousins, couldn't keep up with Alex Smiffffff. Beat Hoyer, Kellen Moore, Pickspatrick. He is above criticism, or he's the next Bills qb who only beats superscrubs. Guess you already know. Don't act like you didn't browbeat to us to death over Meh Cassell. Hop in. We need you. Hahaha. You hate Tyrod 50x more than I. The LOL'ing Raven started this thing. Why do people make the arguements of QBs beating other QBs Those QBs beat our DEFENSE I don't agree. We had 0 points at halftime against the Redskins. While the defense did terribly that game, TT picked up no slack. If you want to divide the game into units, both the defense and offense failed in that one. and yet....you feel the need to only focus on one player on one of those units. TT also threw the game-sealing INT in the Eagles game, while completing just barely over 50% of his passes. An argument again splitting the game into units, the defense again failed by allowing the go-ahead FG, but TT failed to answer, or to muster a point in the 4th Q. He gets a C in that game and definitely contributed to the loss. That is because its a team game And now onto KC. TT had a great first half, but then faltered in the second half. He neglected to throw to the WR that had accumulated well over 100 yards in the first half. Did he neglect to throw to or did Kansas City scheme Watkins away from TT? When KC scored the "go ahead" TD to make the game 21-16, TT responded with his first drive in the second half by fumbling on our own 31. So once again....our D let us down again before TT even turns the ball over The defense actually held them to 3 plays and a FG. A real rarity this past season He then scored a TD to bring the game within 2, the way things are being debated here how did he even manage to do that since he is so awful but was sacked on the game-tying conversion. Those conversions are VERY low percentage and when you arein desparation mode the D has all the advantages Again breaking the game into units, the defense failed and Taylor gets a B- for that game. Scoring 6 points in a half isn't going to cut it, especially considering the neglect regarding Watkins. Common thread here....the D FAILED Can we please remember what this team was supposed to be about at the start of this year? Our quarterback wasnt supposed to be bailing us out....our defense was supposed to be dominating games. Get this defense even close to where it was SUPPOSED to be and lets see what happens The streak ends today!
metzelaars_lives Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) Are you done ? Lost to Bradford, Cousins, couldn't keep up with Alex Smiffffff. Beat Hoyer, Kellen Moore, Pickspatrick. He is above criticism, or he's the next Bills qb who only beats superscrubs. Guess you already know. Don't act like you didn't browbeat to us to death over Meh Cassell. Hop in. We need you. Hahaha. You hate Tyrod 50x more than I. The LOL'ing Raven started this thing. I "browbeat" Cassel? What does that even mean? If you are alluding to when I would call out the unrealistic EJ supporters AKA EJ dreamers, yourself included, for constantly mocking Cassel while defending EJ by saying that I would be shocked if Manuel ever had the career that Cassel has/had, then yes, I did say that. I was right, as per usual. I wasn't lobbying for him to start or excited about him by any means. I think the one thing that every last person on this website could actually agree with is that they wanted someone other than Cassel to seize the job and develop into the unquestioned starter. A guy did this, exceeded all of our wildest expectations, led the Bills to the 13th ranked offense (12th in scoring), received all sorts of offseason accolades and yet a few people- shockingly, the aforementioned EJ people- have a problem with the guy. But yes, please tell us the bad QB's he beat and lost against and leave out the good ones. No one can see through that. What's lost in all this is that the other thing that everyone agreed on is that if the Bills could get anything on offense, with this defense, they were a playoff team. Again, the offense exceeded everyone's wildest expectations. If the defense was anywhere near the 2014 defense, we'd be playing this weekend, not even a question. But yeah, go on about Tyrod and how he cost us the Chiefs game. Edited January 15, 2016 by metzelaars_lives
FireChan Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 Why do people make the arguements of QBs beating other QBs Those QBs beat our DEFENSE QB's have the most effect on W/L and thus are inextricably linked to it.
FireChan Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 I "browbeat" Cassel? What does that even mean? If you are alluding to when I would call out the unrealistic EJ supporters AKA EJ dreamers, yourself included, for constantly mocking Cassel while defending EJ by saying that I would be shocked if Manuel ever had the career that Cassel has/had, then yes, I did say that. I was right, as per usual. I wasn't lobbying for him to start or excited about him by any means. I think the one thing that every last person on this website could actually agree with is that they wanted someone other than Cassel to seize the job and develop into the unquestioned starter. A guy did this, exceeded all of our wildest expectations, led the Bills to the 13th ranked offense (12th in scoring), received all sorts of offseason accolades and yet a few people- shockingly, the aforementioned EJ people- have a problem with the guy. But yes, please tell us the bad QB's he beat and lost against and leave out the good ones. No one can see through that. What's lost in all this is that the other thing that everyone agreed on is that if the Bills could get anything on offense, with this defense, they were a playoff team. Again, the offense exceeded everyone's wildest expectations. If the defense was anywhere near the 2014 defense, we'd be playing this weekend, not even a question. But yeah, go on about Tyrod and how he cost us the Chiefs game. I contend that circumstances have now changed. We do not have a dominant defense. We do have a QB who is set to be up for contract extension next season. Barring a catastrophic year, TT will get paid, whether by the Bills or another team. He will not be under the rookie scale for 3 more years, like most QB's. He will be in the market for a franchise QB-esque contract, and thus the expectations (rightfully) change. It is no longer enough to score 20 points and blame the defense when you lose, if you want $100M. That's not acceptable.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 I "browbeat" Cassel? What does that even mean? If you are alluding to when I would call out the unrealistic EJ supporters AKA EJ dreamers, yourself included, for constantly mocking Cassel while defending EJ by saying that I would be shocked if Manuel ever had the career that Cassel has/had, then yes, I did say that. I was right, as per usual. I wasn't lobbying for him to start or excited about him by any means. I think the one thing that every last person on this website could actually agree with is that they wanted someone other than Cassel to seize the job and develop into the unquestioned starter. A guy did this, exceeded all of our wildest expectations, led the Bills to the 13th ranked offense (12th in scoring), received all sorts of offseason accolades and yet a few people- shockingly, the aforementioned EJ people- have a problem with the guy. But yes, please tell us the bad QB's he beat and lost against and leave out the good ones. No one can see through that. What's lost in all this is that the other thing that everyone agreed on is that if the Bills could get anything on offense, with this defense, they were a playoff team. Again, the offense exceeded everyone's wildest expectations. If the defense was anywhere near the 2014 defense, we'd be playing this weekend, not even a question . But yeah, go on about Tyrod and how he cost us the Chiefs game. Say Ej one more time and I'm gonna have to block you. Holy moly, let him go. Bills season was disappointing and a shttttttshow. Guess you saw something else. Freezing out Watkins for first half of season was solid stuff !
metzelaars_lives Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) Say Ej one more time and I'm gonna have to block you. Holy moly, let him go. Bills season was disappointing and a shttttttshow. Guess you saw something else. Freezing out Watkins for first half of season was solid stuff ! You can't respond to someone without telling them they said something that they didn't, can you? When in God's name did I insinuate that this season was not disappointing? OF COURSE IT WAS. As far as Watkins, the second he made his comments earlier in the year, I came right on here and said that of course he was right. Are you telling me that you have inside info that Roman was telling Taylor to keep throwing to Watkins even when he wasn't wide open earlier in the season and he refused to? None of my connections have given me that info so you must have a good contact within the organization. Conversely, I pin them not making sure to target their best player ten times a game on THE BILLS- Whaley, Ryan, Roman, Pegula- whoever you want to include in there. You can put it on Taylor, we can agree to disagree. Enjoy your Friday night. Edited January 15, 2016 by metzelaars_lives
Maury Ballstein Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 You can't respond to someone without telling them they said something that they didn't, can you? When in God's name did I insinuate that this season was not disappointing? OF COURSE IT WAS. As far as Watkins, the second he made his comments earlier in the year, I came right on here and said that of course he was right. Are you telling me that you have inside info that Roman was telling Taylor to keep throwing to Watkins even when he wasn't wide open earlier in the season and he refused to? None of my connections have given me that info so you must have a good contact within the organization. Conversely, I pin them not making sure to target their best player ten times a game on THE BILLS- Whaley, Ryan, Roman, Pegula- whoever you want to include in there. You can put it on Taylor, we can agree to disagree. Enjoy your Friday night. The season sucked, I'm not pinning it all on Tyrod nor am I annointing him as the guy. Enjoy your Friday as well, we are dancing in circles here Cheers
3rdand12 Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 I don't believe its a fair to compare a QB in this H2H way. Our defense lost all 3 of the games regarding the QBs that TT "lost" to. Our defense also won the 2 jets games. Its a team game believe it or not... Why don't we mark down the 6th loss for Incognito getting destroyed all game then...? and give the win to Fletcher Cox I so enjoy the after school debate team. I really do !
reddogblitz Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 60 percent? What would it actually take to get a clean 90 percent winover? cuz this is the best QB we have had since Drew Bledsoe I'm probably in the 60-70% range myself. Some late game heroics in the 4 where he laid an egg and seeing him stepping into the clean pockets he had at times instead of fish hooking into sacks is what I need to see to get to 90%. One of them is pretty good and the other one sucked. 95% of the people on here- and all Bills fans for that matter- are in both of those camps. Looks like I'm a 5 percenter.
John from Riverside Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 I'm probably in the 60-70% range myself. Some late game heroics in the 4 where he laid an egg and seeing him stepping into the clean pockets he had at times instead of fish hooking into sacks is what I need to see to get to 90%. Looks like I'm a 5 percenter. He also made plays and got himself out of should have been sacks along the way.....personally I thought he got more comfortable "climbing the pocket" as time went on to go along with over the middle throws Nobody is saying that TT is not a work in progress....it is just that that he is the best work in progress QB we have had in years.
YoloinOhio Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) All I know is Ryan L Billz thinks Tajh Boyd is a good QB, so.... Edited January 16, 2016 by YoloinOhio
26CornerBlitz Posted January 16, 2016 Author Posted January 16, 2016 @melissastark It's happening!! @TyrodTaylor on set with us for an exciting day of football!!! @nflnetwork @ShaunOHara60
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