metzelaars_lives Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Nonsense with me being an Ej lover. I simply enjoyed mocking the over the top takes some of you had regarding him. I let Tyrod win me over vs the jets. I'm on board but I'm at 60%. Very concerned w 2nd pats game, not throwing to Watkins 2nd half vs Chiefs, and a few quiet halves. Add a RT and a wideout and we will know next year. Few quiet halves huh? EJ had a few bad seasons and you were still optimistic about him. My issue with you is that you continually create this straw man who is "anointing" Taylor something or saying that he is "amazing." No one is saying that. He had a good season. I really haven't seen anyone be "over the top" about Taylor, much the same way I didn't see too many people who were "over the top" regarding Manuel. One of them is pretty good and the other one sucked. 95% of the people on here- and all Bills fans for that matter- are in both of those camps.
John from Riverside Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Like Tyrod ? How in the world is this mental midget winning all these accolades?
Maury Ballstein Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 23rd in yards. Slowest release time ? It's not all sunshine and rainbows. 60%
Nihilarian Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 I disagree. The Bills/Roman do need to rush TT"s development this year. He's been in the league 5 years now and had almost a full season starting this past season. But more importantly, he's under contract for just this year (the last year of the 3-year deal he signed last year was voided) so it's time to take the reins off and see what he can do and if he merits the big money. Rushing or pushing an inexperienced QB is a sure way to destroy his development and possibly his career. Think of Mark Sanchez. The fact that he has been in the NFL for 5 seasons is really irrelevant and the games he has started is what's important. Tyrod Taylor has only started 14 regular season games and is a far cry from a seasoned pro at this point in his career. Taylor still has yet to throw for 300 yards in a game and every time the Bills asked Taylor to throw more than 30 times or throw more than they ran it the Bills lost. In week two against the NE Patriots Taylor had only 38 yards passing and Brady had 194 at the half. Week 4, NYGiants game 28 of 42 for 274 1TD, 1 INT. Sammy didn't play, and Clay was the leading receiver with 9 rec for 111 yards. At the half of that Giants game, Tyrod Taylor had only 36 passing yards and Manning had 107! Tyrod looked very much like a rookie QB. Week 5 against the Titans Taylor had 28 yards passing at the half and his counterpart Marcus Mariota had 120 yards passing! Week 15 against the Washington Redskins Taylor had only 9 passing yards at the half compared to 182 for Kirk Cousins. My point being is this is a young QB still very much in the developmental process and in my opinion it would extremely hurtful to rush his development. Greg Roman is doing it right with Taylor and we watched him grow over the course of the 2015 season. From throwing to only the single covered receivers and not over the middle to hitting Watkins a lot in a game no matter where or what the coverage. Bills fans need to remember this is a 6th round draft pick and basically an after-thought at QB for a team. This wasn't a first or second round pick and he isn't a Marcus Mariota or Jamis Winston just yet. But give him some time and he may develop into a top NFL starting QB.
metzelaars_lives Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 (edited) 23rd in yards. Slowest release time ? It's not all sunshine and rainbows. 60% 5th in yards per attempt in the NFL. 14 career starts. So you are maintaining your stance that if EJ Manuel just had the season that Taylor had that you would be cherry picking stats to convince the rest of us to still be skeptical about him? Edited January 14, 2016 by metzelaars_lives
JohnC Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Rushing or pushing an inexperienced QB is a sure way to destroy his development and possibly his career. Think of Mark Sanchez. The fact that he has been in the NFL for 5 seasons is really irrelevant and the games he has started is what's important. Tyrod Taylor has only started 14 regular season games and is a far cry from a seasoned pro at this point in his career. Taylor still has yet to throw for 300 yards in a game and every time the Bills asked Taylor to throw more than 30 times or throw more than they ran it the Bills lost. In week two against the NE Patriots Taylor had only 38 yards passing and Brady had 194 at the half. Week 4, NYGiants game 28 of 42 for 274 1TD, 1 INT. Sammy didn't play, and Clay was the leading receiver with 9 rec for 111 yards. At the half of that Giants game, Tyrod Taylor had only 36 passing yards and Manning had 107! Tyrod looked very much like a rookie QB. Week 5 against the Titans Taylor had 28 yards passing at the half and his counterpart Marcus Mariota had 120 yards passing! Week 15 against the Washington Redskins Taylor had only 9 passing yards at the half compared to 182 for Kirk Cousins. My point being is this is a young QB still very much in the developmental process and in my opinion it would extremely hurtful to rush his development. Greg Roman is doing it right with Taylor and we watched him grow over the course of the 2015 season. From throwing to only the single covered receivers and not over the middle to hitting Watkins a lot in a game no matter where or what the coverage. Bills fans need to remember this is a 6th round draft pick and basically an after-thought at QB for a team. This wasn't a first or second round pick and he isn't a Marcus Mariota or Jamis Winston just yet. But give him some time and he may develop into a top NFL starting QB. Excellent post. I agree with the core of your premise that last season he started the season as mostly a developmental qb, not yet ready for a full exposure to the playbook. But I disagree with you on how he should be handled this upcoming season. In my view he should be ready for an accelerated pace of absorbing a more comprehensive playbook presented by the OC. From everything I have heard about TT from players and coaches he is football smart and is able to comprehend a wider array of plays and options. Not only did he have a season of playing experience but he will have an offseason to prepare with the team and with the OC. Last year he was competing with other qbs to be the starter. This year he will be entering the offseason as the designated starter, resulting in more actual playing time and less sharing of time while preparing for the season. If this year it becomes obvious that he isn't able to make reads and go through his progressions then it is safe to say that he doesn't have the capacity to be a long-term starter. If this year the OC only presents TT with a thin playbook then it is obvious that the qb doesn't have the potential to be our franchise qb. I'm very upbeat about TT's prospects. But I believe that it will be apparent to all (skeptics and advocates) this year whether he has the makings of being a substantial player in this league for the long term. No more excuses and no more holding back. The qb developmental process is not at the beginning stage---it is now at the point where he materially contributes to the success of the offense or steps aside for the next option at that position.
3rdand12 Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 F the Stats.F the naysayers. The kid is awesome. we should count our lucky Stars and get behind T2. isn't that the Good and Right thing to do? Support our QB all day. get on the Big Bus and cheer? or wait and watch or just find fault. you choose.
bobobonators Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 Think him and Metz just say EJ as every other word and it's got old. Sweet so he has your endorsement. Must mean he's good like Fitz, Losman, Ej and every other qb you annoint. Why are you so mad dude? This thread celebrates one of the few positives from this season - and TT is a positive from this season - an youre on here sounding like one angry mofo. Read ur posts. Nothing but smart ass remarks and pure anger. I dont get it.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 I dont get it. I see. Look in the mirror though. I'm not mad, Tyrod's decent, my meters at 60%. He improves or he doesn't, Just not decent enough to beat Sam Bradford or Kirk Cousins when it mattered. Why does rehashing the season get you angry ?
Kirby Jackson Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 I see. Look in the mirror though. I'm not mad, Tyrod's decent, my meters at 60%. He improves or he doesn't, Just not decent enough to beat Sam Bradford or Kirk Cousins when it mattered. Why does rehashing the season get you angry ? Tom Brady couldn't beat Brock Osweiler when it mattered. Wins and losses are a team stat.
Doc Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 Rushing or pushing an inexperienced QB is a sure way to destroy his development and possibly his career. Think of Mark Sanchez. The fact that he has been in the NFL for 5 seasons is really irrelevant and the games he has started is what's important. Tyrod Taylor has only started 14 regular season games and is a far cry from a seasoned pro at this point in his career. Taylor still has yet to throw for 300 yards in a game and every time the Bills asked Taylor to throw more than 30 times or throw more than they ran it the Bills lost. In week two against the NE Patriots Taylor had only 38 yards passing and Brady had 194 at the half. Week 4, NYGiants game 28 of 42 for 274 1TD, 1 INT. Sammy didn't play, and Clay was the leading receiver with 9 rec for 111 yards. At the half of that Giants game, Tyrod Taylor had only 36 passing yards and Manning had 107! Tyrod looked very much like a rookie QB. Week 5 against the Titans Taylor had 28 yards passing at the half and his counterpart Marcus Mariota had 120 yards passing! Week 15 against the Washington Redskins Taylor had only 9 passing yards at the half compared to 182 for Kirk Cousins. My point being is this is a young QB still very much in the developmental process and in my opinion it would extremely hurtful to rush his development. Greg Roman is doing it right with Taylor and we watched him grow over the course of the 2015 season. From throwing to only the single covered receivers and not over the middle to hitting Watkins a lot in a game no matter where or what the coverage. Bills fans need to remember this is a 6th round draft pick and basically an after-thought at QB for a team. This wasn't a first or second round pick and he isn't a Marcus Mariota or Jamis Winston just yet. But give him some time and he may develop into a top NFL starting QB. Again, considering the Bills have him under contract for just this season, they need to accelerate his development. If it destroys him, so be it. Better to find out now than after giving him a large contract and finding out that sub-40 passing yards at the half is who he is and waiting a couple years to go after his replacement. And your example of Mariota, who had just 5 starts and was a rookie, had more yards than him, hurts your argument. While Sanchez should never have been taken in the 1st round and has other issues to deal with that TT doesn't.
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 Tom Brady couldn't beat Brock Osweiler when it mattered. Wins and losses are a team stat. He also couldn't beat the before mentioned Sam Bradford, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Ryan Tannehill in losing 4 of the last 6 when trying to wrap up home field advantage. Matter of fact in the last 6 games he only beat B. Hoyer and Z. Mettenberger.
Nihilarian Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 Excellent post. I agree with the core of your premise that last season he started the season as mostly a developmental qb, not yet ready for a full exposure to the playbook. But I disagree with you on how he should be handled this upcoming season. In my view he should be ready for an accelerated pace of absorbing a more comprehensive playbook presented by the OC. From everything I have heard about TT from players and coaches he is football smart and is able to comprehend a wider array of plays and options. Not only did he have a season of playing experience but he will have an offseason to prepare with the team and with the OC. Last year he was competing with other qbs to be the starter. This year he will be entering the offseason as the designated starter, resulting in more actual playing time and less sharing of time while preparing for the season. If this year it becomes obvious that he isn't able to make reads and go through his progressions then it is safe to say that he doesn't have the capacity to be a long-term starter. If this year the OC only presents TT with a thin playbook then it is obvious that the qb doesn't have the potential to be our franchise qb. I'm very upbeat about TT's prospects. But I believe that it will be apparent to all (skeptics and advocates) this year whether he has the makings of being a substantial player in this league for the long term. No more excuses and no more holding back. The qb developmental process is not at the beginning stage---it is now at the point where he materially contributes to the success of the offense or steps aside for the next option at that position. Thanks You guys need to remember that in general it takes the average QB 3-4 years to fully develop into their craft as an NFL starting QB. Not every QB is going to come out gangbusters like Cam Newton or Andrew Luck. And even those men with such gifted physical abilities have had difficulties at times. Simply look at the failures of RG3 and Colin Kaepernick who were pushed overly hard to fast and the result is a broken QB. It honestly makes no sense to force a young inexperienced QB to start throwing 30-40 passes a game and put the entire fortune of the outcome of the game on his shoulders. The Bills need to stick with the plan and allow him to hand off to Shady & Karlos in simply being a game manager while refining his craft. If you guys want to see another broken QB like Mark Sanchez, Kaepernick or RG3 in Buffalo then by all means rush the kid.
Nihilarian Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 Again, considering the Bills have him under contract for just this season, they need to accelerate his development. If it destroys him, so be it. Better to find out now than after giving him a large contract and finding out that sub-40 passing yards at the half is who he is and waiting a couple years to go after his replacement. And your example of Mariota, who had just 5 starts and was a rookie, had more yards than him, hurts your argument. While Sanchez should never have been taken in the 1st round and has other issues to deal with that TT doesn't. That is just crazy talk. It's better to destroy a future NFL starting QB rather then allow him to develop at his own pace is quite frankly, insane. Mark Sanchez took his team to the AFC Championship twice and now is in the trash heap as a backup. Colin Kaepernick who took his team to a super bowl and an NFL championship game is also thought to be in the trash. RG3 is another currently broken QB that may or may not ever be resurrected into a starting caliber player and he took his team to the playoffs his first year in the league. What all these QB's have in common is a team that started to develop them properly by running the ball more then throwing it, thus allowing them to be game managers. Then what happened in each case was that their teams decided to rush their development and ask them to carry the team by passing more than running it and all three started to fail. Things got worse as time went on. You could also fit EJ into this category when in 2014 when the Bills ran more than they threw it the first two games EJ looked fine and the Bills won. Then the next two games he was asked to carry the team by throwing 40 & 44 times and fell on his face. Rex Ryan, Greg Roman have it right in developing Tyrod properly in wanting to build a power, run-first offense that limits the amount of responsibility for the QB. Then gradually giving him more and more responsibility each game. It's not out of the realm of possibility that Tyrod could take this team to the playoffs in 2016. It's expecting him to carry the offense all on his own each game like he is magically now Tom Brady. He isn't! He is a 6th round pick that needs all the support the team can give him the next 2-3 years.
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 In 2015 the QB with the highest QBR under pressure was none other than Mr. Tyrod Taylor. http://www.scout.com/nfl/bills/story/1630842-tyrod-taylor-tops-qbr-under-pressure-list Tyrod Taylor made his fair share of big plays for the Buffalo Bills in 2015. It turns out that Taylor made some of his best plays when under pressure. The first time starter finished the regular season first on ESPN's Total Quarterback Rating (QBR) under pressure list.
JohnC Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 Thanks You guys need to remember that in general it takes the average QB 3-4 years to fully develop into their craft as an NFL starting QB. Not every QB is going to come out gangbusters like Cam Newton or Andrew Luck. And even those men with such gifted physical abilities have had difficulties at times. Simply look at the failures of RG3 and Colin Kaepernick who were pushed overly hard to fast and the result is a broken QB. It honestly makes no sense to force a young inexperienced QB to start throwing 30-40 passes a game and put the entire fortune of the outcome of the game on his shoulders. The Bills need to stick with the plan and allow him to hand off to Shady & Karlos in simply being a game manager while refining his craft. If you guys want to see another broken QB like Mark Sanchez, Kaepernick or RG3 in Buffalo then by all means rush the kid. Your characterization of what I am saying is way off the mark. Where did I say that he should be in an offense where the ball is constantly being sprayed all over the place? Where did I or most of the other posters say that he should be a version of Newton or Luck? You are making assumptions based on nothing that has been said by me and (most others). Who is saying that he shouldn't be running an offense that is balanced? Not I! My impression of him is that he is not going to be a prolific passer. I'm fine with a more managerial style of qbing from him. But that doesn't mean that he won't be a good qb. What I want to see from TT is a visible progression for a qb who has been in the league for five years now. He isn't a raw rookie that needs to be gently handled at this point. With an offseason of hard work as the designated starter he should be in a good position to make a qualitative leap forward. Your comparisons of TT to Kaepernick and RGIII are off the mark. He is demonstrably much more advanced in managing an offense than those two befuddled qbs are. It's time for him to be treated as a capable starter. The training wheels need to be taken off. TT knows what is at stake for him as a qb and Whaley knows what is at stake for him as a GM. TT either plays up to the increased expectations or step aside for someone else. No more excuses.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) 5th in yards per attempt in the NFL. 14 career starts. So you are maintaining your stance that if EJ Manuel just had the season that Taylor had that you would be cherry picking stats to convince the rest of us to still be skeptical about him? Ej is irrelevant this is the Tyrod thread. I'll cherry pick another Tyrod stat I just saw though 216 ypg avg. Thats gonna need to come up. He's sandwiched between Bridgewater and Mariota in yards. Keep your pants on. Edited January 15, 2016 by Ryan L Billz
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) 23rd in yards. Slowest release time ? It's not all sunshine and rainbows. 60% Ej is irrelevant this is the Tyrod thread. I'll cherry pick another Tyrod stat I just saw though 216 ypg avg. Thats gonna need to come up. He's sandwiched between Bridgewater and Mariota in yards. Keep your pants on. You seem fascinated over yards, which don't mean squat. Do you know how many QBs in the top 15 in ypg made the playoffs? 4. http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingYardsPerGame/seasontype/2 I'll cherry pick one highest QBR under pressure #1 Tyrod Taylor. In his first year of starting no less. That means a heck of a lot more than yards per game. Edited January 15, 2016 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 4 > 0 Top 1-15=4, 15-30=7 (if you count Brock and Peyton as one, both were in this group) 7 > 4
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