Big Changes to Defense for 2016

[3rdand12]

I dont even really know what the title intends.

Big changes.

I expect better focus is the intent of the Ryan.

Ryan cannot help but use dramatic phrasing. He is a very enthusiastic character.

 

His broad term, may just mean his attitude and refining his processes ?

 

There are lots of people around here who don't want to believe this is possible, but in my opinion it's more likely than Rex self-destructing and the Pegulas blowing everything up again. There are many more positives surrounding Rex in Buffalo than there were in NJ.

 

There's nothing wrong with being optimistic. You're a fan.

he has this year to get the ship up to speed, both he and Whaley possibly. I find that reasonable actually

[#34fan]

Sounds like we're boned for another two years... New personnel... D will be in a quandary... Players will be unhappy... Locker room will be a barfight... I'm trying my best to be optimistic, but we just don't seem to be coming together the way championship teams do...

 

I doubt that a 4-12 fired HC, and his fired crap DC brother will improve that situation.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

You were totally projecting, as that was the original post that I responded to. You are using an outlier year in Rex's career to base an observation that Rex can't put his defensive players in a position to succeed.

 

And as time goes on, we're gleaning into more information on why the defense underperformed.

 

Dude, you're really pole-vaulting here. I was talking about Kyle Williams, and I said "I lack faith in Rex to use players in a way that exploits their unique strengths." And as a 3-4 NT in 2010, Kyle was indeed unique. Small and light, the "little engine that could".

 

You leap to the conclusion that I'm basing my concern about what Rex can or can't do on the Bills this year.

You distort "lack faith...exploit their unique strength" into "Rex can't put his defensive players in a position to succeed" - not equivalent statements at all.

 

You also ignore my answer to your question and the information I provided that actually, no, this was not an outlier "worst year on defense" for Rex.

 

This is not the behavior of someone interested in an actual discussion. Good day.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Hopeful

[GG]

 

Dude, you're really pole-vaulting here. I was talking about Kyle Williams, and I said "I lack faith in Rex to use players in a way that exploits their unique strengths." And as a 3-4 NT in 2010, Kyle was indeed unique. Small and light, the "little engine that could".

 

You leap to the conclusion that I'm basing my concern about what Rex can or can't do on the Bills this year.

You distort "lack faith...exploit their unique strength" into "Rex can't put his defensive players in a position to succeed" - not equivalent statements at all.

 

You also ignore my answer to your question and the information I provided that actually, no, this was not an outlier "worst year on defense" for Rex.

 

This is not the behavior of someone interested in an actual discussion. Good day.

 

How are the two statements not synonymous?

 

Why did you pick out Kyle's performance in slamming Rex, especially when Rex admitted after the season that they would have done a few things differently to improve the defense, but Kyle got hurt?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

How are the two statements not synonymous?

 

Why did you pick out Kyle's performance in slamming Rex, especially when Rex admitted after the season that they would have done a few things differently to improve the defense, but Kyle got hurt?

 

OK, first question can be seen as legit request for clarification.

 

"I lack faith in Rex to use players in a way that exploits their unique strengths" - I now believe Rex is a system coach, and can use players who fit his system in a way that exploits their strengths. But when a player has unique strengths that don't fit his system, I am uncertain ("lack faith") that Rex can figure out a way to use them effectively. There is evidence to support this (this year, some prev. years)

 

"Rex can't put his defensive players in a position to succeed" would imply that I don't believe Rex can put any defensive players in a position to succeed. This is a much more general statement, and is readily disprovable by the fact that Rex has coached top, elite, successful Ds several times.

 

Second question is just laziness on your part. Go back and look at the context where I first brought up Kyle Wililams.

 

Still waiting for you to address or acknowledge points about several examples of players who have not succeeded in Rex's system this year and about this not, in fact, being neither an outlier year for Rex defensively or his worst year defensively. (dfasdfasdfasdfasfasfasdfasdf - not holding breath though)

[GG]

 

OK, first question can be seen as legit request for clarification.

 

"I lack faith in Rex to use players in a way that exploits their unique strengths" - I now believe Rex is a system coach, and can use players who fit his system in a way that exploits their strengths. But when a player has unique strengths that don't fit his system, I am uncertain ("lack faith") that Rex can figure out a way to use them effectively. There is evidence to support this (this year, some prev. years)

 

"Rex can't put his defensive players in a position to succeed" would imply that I don't believe Rex can put any defensive players in a position to succeed. This is a much more general statement, and is readily disprovable by the fact that Rex has coached top, elite, successful Ds several times.

 

Second question is just laziness on your part. Go back and look at the context where I first brought up Kyle Wililams.

 

Still waiting for you to address or acknowledge points about several examples of players who have not succeeded in Rex's system this year and about this not, in fact, being neither an outlier year for Rex defensively or his worst year defensively. (dfasdfasdfasdfasfasfasdfasdf - not holding breath though)

 

Let's start with the easy part - Bills were #19 in yards given up, which is usually the most used stat for defenses and 2015 happened to be Rex's worst outing in his career. Now, if you want to put words in my posts to infer what I meant to write, go ahead.

 

The bigger issue, though is the ever shifting criticism of Ryan's scheme this year. And that's where your projection comes in. Is your argument that Rex didn't get maximum production out of Kyle because he didn't line him up as NT from the get go or that he couldn't get production from him as a 4-3 DT?

 

Your answer won't matter because you already concluded that you lack faith in Rex to use players in a way that exploits their unique strengths.

 

It doesn't matter that Rex recognized that what he was doing early on wasn't working. It doesn't matter that he was limited in how he could change things up because two key players got injured and a big star decided to quit on his team mates. It all about the coach suddenly forgetting how to get the best production out of his players.

 

So again, other than the outlier 2015, please point me to other cases where Rex's defensive players underperformed their abilities?

[JTO]

Cut Kyle, Mario, Corey, Leodis, Aaron and then build through the draft.

[kevnallen]

Agreed that Kyle has no place in a true 30 front.

Bad fit for a great player

I'm fine with a guy like Knighton or Mebane at nose as well.

Kyle made the Pro Bowl a few times as a 3-4 NT.

[Dopey]

I totally get the frustration and distrust of Rex. But his defenses were generally very good with NYJ. Our offense is already better than anything he had with the Jets and should still improve. If we can put our solid offense together with one of Rex's solid defenses we should easily be a playoff team next year, right?

 

Or am I just fooling myself into optimism? That's possible too.

Isn't this what we all thought at the beginning of the season? So sad, we shouldn't be at a point where we are asking if we can put a solid d together. The sad part is coming into the season we all thought we were going to be bad ass on d. This offseason we're not sure if the d will be any good and it needs retooling.

 

Other than a mercurial DE in 2015, when else hasn't Rex been able to maximize a defensive player's ability?

Come on man, are you kidding?! Oh, sorry, my sarcasm meter is frozen right now. It'll thaw out around the time for training camp.

[ganesh]

He trying to say he tried to run a hybrid of a 4-3 and 3-4 and that's why the defense was bad so now he's just sticking with a 3-4 even though we don't have the personnel for it.

They will draft a true NT...Then move Dareus to the DE position. They need extremely good and fast LB for his scheme to work. They should re-sign Bradham

[Agent 91]

Rex says...

 

"Were going to do things much differently next year, and were going to be better because of it. In a way, I tried to merge a couple of things, you know, two systems and things like that. And quite honestly, it didnt work, so were going to be all in, were going to play Buffalo Bill defense, and were not going to be fun to play."

 

What does Rex exactly mean and what are the ramifications?

Show Mario the scheme. And ask him to restructure giving him a good amount of money in incentives and back load a bonus somewhere. Im not happy with losing that kind of talent without a try

[K D]

They will draft a true NT...Then move Dareus to the DE position. They need extremely good and fast LB for his scheme to work. They should re-sign Bradham

I think first pick will be best available out of NT, DE, MLB

[Dopey]

 

Dude, you asked me "Other than a mercurial DE in 2015, when else hasn't Rex been able to maximize a defensive player's ability?"

 

I answered. Ain't projecting nothing,

 

And by any metric, 2015 with the Bills not the "worst defense of Rex's coaching career". That would be 2007 with the Ravens as DC. Anyone have insight on why, like to hear. By PPG metric, worst year 2014 with the Jets, with the 3 preceeding years almost as bad. Bills only 15th (ppg) or 19th (ypg) this year, maybe 6th or 2nd worst year (choose your metric).

Screw the metrics, I watched this d with my own eyes. It was way more than a mercurial DE and a KW injury.

[ricojes]

Rex says...

 

"We’re going to do things much differently next year, and we’re going to be better because of it. In a way, I tried to merge a couple of things, you know, two systems and things like that. And quite honestly, it didn’t work, so we’re going to be all in, we’re going to play Buffalo Bill defense, and we’re not going to be fun to play."

 

What does Rex exactly mean and what are the ramifications?

My feeling is that Rex had a grand vision of how every player would fit into his "merged" scheme and it just didn't work, they didn't fit as he had hoped. He needs to analyze what players fit and which don't and what parts of his scheme work and which don't, hence doing things different. I think this statement pretty much equals "my bad". He's going all in with his D....it is what it is, we can B word about it all off season, but the true Rex D is coming. Will it be that much different and/or that much better? I hope to hell it is....

Edited January 15, 2016 by ricojes

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Screw the metrics, I watched this d with my own eyes. It was way more than a mercurial DE and a KW injury.

 

And McKelvin on IR to start, and an AW injury, and a...

 

Dopey I agree with you. Far more was wrong with the D than Mario possibly doggin' and injuries.

 

My point was to GG, who feels that this past year is an "outlier" in Rex Ryan's coaching life as defensive genius. Rex has coached some elite D's, but he has also coached some D's that were worse than this year or as bad (depending on metric chosen) thus proving (in my view) that this past year may not be an outlier.

 

Now I don't have the answers why some of his Ds have sucked and some were great. In some case, maybe it was on the O (turnovers, inability to sustain dries) - though not this year and at least 1 year with the Ravens. Maybe it's something he can fix here, like missing a key player or two, a stud ILB and a mensah-member DB. But it's there, it happened, this past year was not an "outlier" or Rex's worst D ever. And at the very best interpretation, it is evidence that Rex can't, in fact, always fit his scheme to his personnel, even potentially elite personnel.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Hopeful

[Reed83HOF]

 

And McKelvin on IR to start, and an AW injury, and a...

 

Dopey I agree with you. Far more was wrong with the D than Mario possibly doggin' and injuries.

 

My point was to GG, who feels that this past year is an "outlier" in Rex Ryan's coaching life as defensive genius. Rex has coached some elite D's, but he has also coached some D's that were worse than this year or as bad (depending on metric chosen) thus proving (in my view) that this past year may not be an outlier.

 

Now I don't have the answers why some of his Ds have sucked and some were great. In some case, maybe it was on the O (turnovers, inability to sustain dries) - though not this year and at least 1 year with the Ravens. Maybe it's something he can fix here, like missing a key player or two, a stud ILB and a mensah-member DB. But it's there, it happened, this past year was not an "outlier" or Rex's worst D ever. And at the very best interpretation, it is evidence that Rex can't, in fact, always fit his scheme to his personnel, even potentially elite personnel.

 

And this is why good coaches aren't married to a scheme. In the salary cap and free agency era, it is too damn hard to find the right players and have all of those players stay together. Smart coaches adjust their schemes to the talent they have. Damn I hate using Bellicheat* as an example, but it's true. You look at the talent that is available in the draft and draft those with the best talent, look at FA and look at the talent. In the end talent will almost always beat scheme.

 

Rex's scheme doesn't work well if he doesn't have all of the pieces = that is a big problem since team has all of the pieces. Hasn't been that way since 93...

Edited January 18, 2016 by Reed83HOF

[Agent 91]

Agreed that Kyle has no place in a true 30 front.

 

Bad fit for a great player

 

I'm fine with a guy like Knighton or Mebane at nose as well.

Was red bryant a nose tackle or was he a de?

Why and the heck did they say they're bringing Kyle back if he doesn't fit, and clearly he doesn't?

You sir should change your name while Dennis Thurman is here. Lol jk

Rex is insincere like when he patted the black guy in the Dunn Tire commercial

You attention to that commercials detail worries me haha.

He was all talk and promises with the NY Jets too.

 

 

Sadly, all I see in the future is him and his brother taking years to build a mediocre defense that will still have discipline, penalty issues even if he starts calling more blitzes.

 

This reminds me so much of the 2010 season with George Edwards as DC, and the shifting from Jauron's 4-3 to a 3-4 and when that didn't work he went back to a 4-3 for 2011 and that didn't work either. This with a defense that had nine of 11 starters as either a 1st or 2nd round draft pick, so it wasn't the players!

 

Then Dave Wannstedt gave it a shot with his simplistic 4-3 with very little blitzing and opposing teams still had their way making that defense look so bad.

 

Mike Pettine took over in 2013 and ran a hybrid 3-4 / 4-3 that worked to an extent in bringing the Bills notoriety in being the #2 defense in the NFL in sacks.

 

Finally, it took a modern 4-3 master in DC Jim Schwartz to bring a real top defense to Buffalo with a 4-3 that didn't blitz very much but was able to lead the NFL in sacks.

 

This year with a defense loaded with as much talent as any team in the NFL on defense the 2015 Buffalo Bills defense regressed so badly in a 3-4 with 4-3 players it was actually worse than any Bills defense in sacks that I can remember. the Bills only had 21 sacks all season.

 

Now the Bills will attempt to retool the defense to fit Ryan's 3-4 and then probably end up firing him after the 2016 season. Will the stupidity ever end with the constant drafting, re-drafting of defensive players to fit the current defensive coordinators scheme?

 

It's not only Kyle Williams as DT Marcell Dareus isn't a fit in Ryan's 3-4 either. I'm sure he won't be happy in 2016 in being used as a space eating gap control player like he was last season.

 

It really is sad that this supposed defensive genius only knows how to run his 3/4 scheme

Kudos on Dareus. I really dont think he is that great as a space eater. He got his money for pass rush. That crap they want to pull should not fly

the word has been that they plan to keep KW. But, folks here are speculating he isn't a good fit for Rex DL.

 

I would hate to see him go.

 

Anyone know if Corbin Bryant is a good fit?

I dont like corbin at de. He is a pass rusher too and he is south of 300 lbs. Which seems to be a standard for 34 DE. I would have to keep Carrington as he can fit the bill at 34

 

Other than a mercurial DE in 2015, when else hasn't Rex been able to maximize a defensive player's ability?

Linebackers sucked too. The only one who looked good on that defense was Manny

I'm still waiting to see what Rob Ryan's role will be but I'm expecting he will be kind of the de facto DC, running Rex's D, and pushing Thurman to more of a position coach (DBs).

 

Rob's track record as a DC isn't good. But here's what Phil Simms had to say about Rob getting fired from NO...

 

You know once they fired Rob Ryan, the defense didnt get any better. When youve got a horse that is slow, it aint going to win the Kentucky Derby. I dont know what anybody expected from the New Orleans Saints. I did a game of theirs. I remember looking at their roster and going, ok, it is right where it should be on the defensive side.'

 

He also said,

 

"Rob makes Rex look like he is introverted so it is going to be interesting. Knowledge, communication with the players and energy, all that is going to help. I think it is a really good hire.

 

http://talkintv.buffalonews.com/2016/01/12/cbs-simms-rexs-hiring-of-rob-is-a-positive-development-for-bills/

I like it even though i think simms is an idiot

[BaaadThingsMan]

How long will it take to get Rex type players on the D? Are we supposed to wait 2-3 years, is Pegula supposed to trust what Rex says and be patient with him?

 

Rex has let his mouth get ahead of himself all year, if he's a defensive genius I would have thought he would produce better with what was being talked about as one of the best D lines,in football in the conversation as all time great D lines.

 

What do they do with guys like KW who's proven to be productive in any system when healthy but hasn't been lately.

 

It seems a shame to be replacing so many parts on defense that were top 5 2 years in a row

[thebandit27]

Kyle made the Pro Bowl a few times as a 3-4 NT.

He was never playing the 0-tech position.

 

He was predominantly playing 3-tech, but would shift to 2i and 1 at times.

Was red bryant a nose tackle or was he a de?

 

Bryant was a NT in college, but played as a 5-tech (and a 4i) in Seattle's 4-man run D front.

 

He's got much different body type than Kyle though--bigger, longer, etc.

[bigK14094]

Biggest change for 2016 will be that we will have two clowns instead of one running the D