dave mcbride Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Clemson is every bit as talented as Alabama. And if the Bills ever win it all I guarantee you I won't waste my time trying to tell everyone else why the team they beat wasn't any good. You are correct. Clemson has been absolutely loaded, and a lot of their players will be drafted. They are 10th right now in the number of alums in the pros, but given their recent classes and the ones going forward, they are sure to move up. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000531745/article/college-programs-with-the-most-alums-on-nfl-week-1-rosters Outside of Alabama, Clemson seems noticeably better to me than any of the other SEC teams right now. One piece of advice to the Alabama advocates here: I don't think any of the non-Alabama supporters here have any problem with Alabama or think that Alabama "stole the game." There's no need to be so defensive or to engage with others like a zealous fan. Alabama is not more talented than Clemson now; they are pretty equal across rosters. If you look at top recruits, Alabama and Clemson are basically the same, perched atop the heap along with Florida State and USC: http://sports.yahoo.com/usf/football/recruiting/teamrank/2015/all/all Now this is a post with which I fully agree. Clemson was/is much better than I expected them to be. Fwiw, I watch every single Tide game. As great as this team was they were not the best Alabama team. The team which destroyed Notre Dame had a much better offense than these kids, and the best OL I ever saw. They were more balanced, and imo one of he greatest teams ever. This squad had the best front 7 I ever saw, but the team had to work harder to be where they are. Now, how about a title for the Bills!!! Why, because you say so? How about if we agree to disagree? Look at draftees from recent years and recruiting classes from the past few. Clemson is really rising fast.
eball Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Thanks for the lecture, dad. My response was originally to this idea that somehow Alabama stole the game, and Clemson got ripped off. Alabama used their strengths, and exploited Clemson's weaknesses, to win the game. There is more, afterall, to winning a football game than flashy QB play. it was a great game, but started to become clear in the 4th quarter that Alabama was going to grind them down, which is what happened. I also agree with the other poster - if Clemson played Alabama's schedule this year, in the SEC, they might not have been a top 10 or 20 team. If that's what you want to tell yourself, fine, but nobody said Clemson got ripped off or Bama stole the game -- the post I think you're referring to said Clemson blew some coverages on D (which they did) that led to big plays for the Bama TE, and they made two huge ST miscues (onside kick, KO return TD) that contributed significantly to the result. You turned it into a denigration of Clemson's "Doug Flutie" offense when it was really quite unnecessary. Did Bama give up 550 yards and 40 points or not? Doesn't anybody ever say, "whew, I'm glad we won but we were also fortunate" any more? Are you that pissed off your Tide didn't wipe the floor with Clemson the way you probably thought they would (because you, like your SEC brethren, don't believe good football exists outside your conference)?
dorquemada Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Now this is a post with which I fully agree. Clemson was/is much better than I expected them to be. Fwiw, I watch every single Tide game. As great as this team was they were not the best Alabama team. The team which destroyed Notre Dame had a much better offense than these kids, and the best OL I ever saw. They were more balanced, and imo one of he greatest teams ever. This squad had the best front 7 I ever saw, but the team had to work harder to be where they are. Now, how about a title for the Bills!!! Why, because you say so? How about if we agree to disagree? I really liked the 92 team for the way they dismantled Miami in the Championship when nobody gave them a chance. The playin game on that (SEC Championship) against Florida was one of the best football games I've ever seen, college or pro. Maybe that team lacked in superstars (not sure any of those guys ever did anything in the NFL - I remember the 2 DEs were high draft picks but were pretty middling) but as a team they were fierce. Clemson was a great team from an average conference. They'll be back next year in all likelihood, and maybe this time Dabo will tell his kickoff team to cover the field, and his D to cover the TE. And don't let a RB run for 158 yards and 3 TDs.
dave mcbride Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) I really liked the 92 team for the way they dismantled Miami in the Championship when nobody gave them a chance. The playin game on that (SEC Championship) against Florida was one of the best football games I've ever seen, college or pro. Maybe that team lacked in superstars (not sure any of those guys ever did anything in the NFL - I remember the 2 DEs were high draft picks but were pretty middling) but as a team they were fierce. Clemson was a great team from an average conference. They'll be back next year in all likelihood, and maybe this time Dabo will tell his kickoff team to cover the field, and his D to cover the TE. And don't let a RB run for 158 yards and 3 TDs. Why the right side of the field was left uncovered on that kickoff was mind-boggling to me. It was uncovered in the formation itself. Edited January 13, 2016 by dave mcbride
dorquemada Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 If that's what you want to tell yourself, fine, but nobody said Clemson got ripped off or Bama stole the game -- the post I think you're referring to said Clemson blew some coverages on D (which they did) that led to big plays for the Bama TE, and they made two huge ST miscues (onside kick, KO return TD) that contributed significantly to the result. You turned it into a denigration of Clemson's "Doug Flutie" offense when it was really quite unnecessary. Did Bama give up 550 yards and 40 points or not? Doesn't anybody ever say, "whew, I'm glad we won but we were also fortunate" any more? Are you that pissed off your Tide didn't wipe the floor with Clemson the way you probably thought they would (because you, like your SEC brethren, don't believe good football exists outside your conference)? God you're dense. A lot of Watson's yards came on either broken plays, or designed runs. That was nice, and looks great on the stat sheet, but is going to get your QB killed. Yes, Clemson played a great game and scored a lot of points. No, I did not expect Alabama to 'wipe the floor' with Clemson. There have been plenty of people claiming that Clemson was the better team, when that's not how this works. I think some posters here are so starved of good QB play from following the Bills that they look at it as a more significant factor in winning games than it really is. Watson played a fantastic game, except the interception, and a few bad throws that should have been intercepted (and since we're seeing lots of what ifs, what if those were intercepted?), but it wasnt enough, and Clemson, had they had more balance, might have won the game. Sorry if you cant understand all those words.
Bill from NYC Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Why the right side of the field was left uncovered on that kickoff was mind-boggling to me. It was uncovered in the formation itself.Saban said that he knew what to expect from Clemson's kicking team, and had someone in the booth to tell him if they were doing something different. That is just one small example of just how much of a great coach he is.
dave mcbride Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 God you're dense. A lot of Watson's yards came on either broken plays, or designed runs. That was nice, and looks great on the stat sheet, but is going to get your QB killed. Yes, Clemson played a great game and scored a lot of points. No, I did not expect Alabama to 'wipe the floor' with Clemson. There have been plenty of people claiming that Clemson was the better team, when that's not how this works. I think some posters here are so starved of good QB play from following the Bills that they look at it as a more significant factor in winning games than it really is. Watson played a fantastic game, except the interception, and a few bad throws that should have been intercepted (and since we're seeing lots of what ifs, what if those were intercepted?), but it wasnt enough, and Clemson, had they had more balance, might have won the game. Sorry if you cant understand all those words. Feel free to disregard this comment, but insulting people isn't a particularly effective way to get your point across. Snark and insults just turn people off and turn interesting debates into lousy ones. Again, though, feel free to disregard. Saban said that he knew what to expect from Clemson's kicking team, and had someone in the booth to tell him if they were doing something different. That is just one small example of just how much of a great coach he is. He's definitely a great coach. That's clear!
dorquemada Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Why the right side of the field was left uncovered on that kickoff was mind-boggling to me. It was uncovered in the formation itself. Saban said they practiced that exact play every day since last June waiting for the perfect moment, and that the players were warned not to smile as to not give away what was about to happen
K-9 Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 I don't know, but it seems to me that by asserting that Clemson wouldn't be a top 10 or 20 team if they played in the SEC, you are diminishing Alabam's win. Seems a little insecure. GO BILLS!!!
Bill from NYC Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Alabama is not more talented than Clemson now; they are pretty equal across rosters.It is great that you think this and seem so pleased to say it, but this doesn't make it true.
dave mcbride Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Saban said they practiced that exact play every day since last June waiting for the perfect moment, and that the players were warned not to smile as to not give away what was about to happen I'm not referring to the onside kick; I'm referring to Clemson's kickoff. On that play, the right fifth of the field was uncovered at the LOS on the kickoff. They had shifted left and kicked it left -- but that left a huge lane on the right, which Alabama took full advantage of.
dorquemada Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Feel free to disregard this comment, but insulting people isn't a particularly effective way to get your point across. Snark and insults just turn people off and turn interesting debates into lousy ones. Again, though, feel free to disregard. Thank you, I shall disregard
dave mcbride Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) It is great that you think this and seem so pleased to say it, but this doesn't make it true. Take a look at the recruiting rosters and drafts from recent years. Clemson and FSU have definitely caught up with the SEC, which Alabama dominates relative to the other teams in that conference. People said the same thing about Ohio State and Michigan until recently. Michigan just needed a coach, and now they have one. They will likely have a great recruiting class this year. Edited January 13, 2016 by dave mcbride
YoloinOhio Posted January 13, 2016 Author Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) I'm just waiting for that hilljack Phyllis from the Paul Finebaum show to give us her hot take. Edited January 13, 2016 by YoloinOhio
Bill from NYC Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Take a look at the recruiting rosters and drafts from recent years. Clemson and FSU have definitely caught up with the SEC, which Alabama dominates relative to the other teams in that conference.But Dave, why should this force me to agree that Clemson was as good as this Bama team? And btw they have a qb who didn't play one down this year, but I saw him on you tube throw a football 70 yards through the uprights in a perfect spiral. I am NOT claiming that the Tide will win the title in 2017. I AM suggesting that you don't count them out either.
dorquemada Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 I don't know, but it seems to me that by asserting that Clemson wouldn't be a top 10 or 20 team if they played in the SEC, you are diminishing Alabam's win. Seems a little insecure. GO BILLS!!! http://www.mcubed.net/ncaaf/tvc/sec/acc.shtml It's not 'insecure' to point out that the SEC is a harder conference than the ACC. Playing in a harder conference increases your chance of a loss. Do you think Clemson would have gone undefeated in the SEC this year? Minimally, they would have had to beat both Florida and Alabama to get into the playoffs. There's a reason why Alabama with 1 loss was still a top 4 team, while other teams with 1 loss weren't considered, unless you think that the whole playoff system is built on SEC chauvinism.
dave mcbride Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 But Dave, why should this force me to agree that Clemson was as good as this Bama team? And btw they have a qb who didn't play one down this year, but I saw him on you tube throw a football 70 yards through the uprights in a perfect spiral. I am NOT claiming that the Tide will win the title in 2017. I AM suggesting that you don't count them out either. Oh, I never count Bama out. They are a great team with great talent and a great coach. The reason I was more impressed by Clemson's talent is for a few reasons, and it really didn't have to do with the QBs. Regardless of the score, I though Clemson's d-line overwhelmed Alabama's o-line, and except for one big run, Henry looked mostly under siege (35 carries for 117 yards outside of the one 50 yard TD run). He also looks a little slow to me. Frankly, I was a little shocked at how overmatched Alabama's o-line looked. I also thought that the Clemson receivers were consistently able to get open with relative ease. That's no shock, I guess; we're talking about a school that three years ago had Martavis Bryant, Sammy Watkins, and DeAndre Hopkins as a starting receiver trio. I also though that as the game went on (but not early on) the Clemson line was pushing Alabama's d-line around. I don't mean to make light of the coverage breakdowns -- being smart is part of the game -- but those were mental breakdowns that Alabama exploited. Of course, OJ Howard looked like a NFL-caliber talent out there despite the fact that he was often left uncovered. He'll play in the pros for sure. The freshman CB for Alabama (Fitzpatrick?) looks good -- excellent size and good closing speed.
K-9 Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 http://www.mcubed.net/ncaaf/tvc/sec/acc.shtml It's not 'insecure' to point out that the SEC is a harder conference than the ACC. Playing in a harder conference increases your chance of a loss. Do you think Clemson would have gone undefeated in the SEC this year? Minimally, they would have had to beat both Florida and Alabama to get into the playoffs. There's a reason why Alabama with 1 loss was still a top 4 team, while other teams with 1 loss weren't considered, unless you think that the whole playoff system is built on SEC chauvinism. Most casual fans know that the SEC is the best conference overall, talent wise, in the country. That's not the point. You diminish Alabama's victory by asserting they didn't beat a true top 10 or 20 team. Denigrating the other team in victory, especially in such a close game, suggests winning wasn't enough. That is the epitome of insecure. GO BILLS!!!
dave mcbride Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 http://www.mcubed.net/ncaaf/tvc/sec/acc.shtml It's not 'insecure' to point out that the SEC is a harder conference than the ACC. Playing in a harder conference increases your chance of a loss. Do you think Clemson would have gone undefeated in the SEC this year? Minimally, they would have had to beat both Florida and Alabama to get into the playoffs. There's a reason why Alabama with 1 loss was still a top 4 team, while other teams with 1 loss weren't considered, unless you think that the whole playoff system is built on SEC chauvinism. Florida's offense is terrible. UNC was a better team than Florida this season (although not usually). Florida was completely inept against Michigan and got lucky against Tennessee. They weren't that good this season. They do have some NFL players on defense, however.
Bill from NYC Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Florida's offense is terrible. UNC was a better team than Florida this season (although not usually). Florida was completely inept against Michigan and got lucky against Tennessee. They weren't that good this season. They do have some NFL players on defense, however.Florida does have a bad offense, but their defense is one of the best. You get beat up playing a team like that.
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