Stephon Gilmore: "I Know I’m an Elite Corner."

[Max997]

@viccarucci

#Bills CB Stephon Gilmore considers himself an "elite" CB & eventually wants to be paid that way. BN blog: http://bit.ly/1RzMrlT

 

You can forget a hometown discount when his deal is up.

I'd be happy with him just being a very good CB who could make it through a couple seasons without being injured

[Dr.Sack]

Gilmore is a terrific corner & should be paid top 10 CB $.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

Agreed.

 

What will likely happen is that he will walk, and the Bills will replace him with a first round defensive back. And it won't really matter if we are winning or losing because this is what the Bills do.

 

The certainty of the Bills drafting first round defensive backs is a large part of what makes your screen name just so fitting.

We should just trade Gilmore we can possibly get a 1st or at least a high 2nd. Move Graham bk to Corner give McKelvin his paycut and we are good.

Darby, Graham, McKelvin, Roby & Butler still very nice secondary

[thebandit27]

We should just trade Gilmore we can possibly get a 1st or at least a high 2nd. Move Graham bk to Corner give McKelvin his paycut and we are good.

Darby, Graham, McKelvin, Roby & Butler still very nice secondary

I'm really glad that this isn't the actual plan.

[YoloinOhio]

We should just trade Gilmore we can possibly get a 1st or at least a high 2nd. Move Graham bk to Corner give McKelvin his paycut and we are good.

Darby, Graham, McKelvin, Roby & Butler still very nice secondary

i don't think Graham can play corner anymore

[Wooderson]

Darby, Graham, McKelvin, Robey, and Butler is a very nice secondary? Really? We saw that for part of the year and I was not impressed at all. Robey routinely got burned by larger slot receivers, McKelvin made 2-3 nice plays but also routinely got beat. Graham can no longer play corner as we saw him get torched by a Jets rookie receiver. We NEED Gilmore. Two number 1 corners is much better for our defense than 1 number 1 and 4 nickle corners.

[3rdand12]

Why would we not pay Gilmore again?

We have Darby who is on the cheap, we have Leo who wants to stay and we have Butler who is up and coming.

 

and those who critique Stephon to no end should consider how much OFF Co have to take him into account.

We have two CBs that play man coverage all day.

Geez Louise! Thats a D coordinators dream!!!

[Deranged Rhino]

Why would we not pay Gilmore again?

We have Darby who is on the cheap, we have Leo who wants to stay and we have Butler who is up and coming.

 

and those who critique Stephon to no end should consider how much OFF Co have to take him into account.

We have two CBs that play man coverage all day.

Geez Louise! Thats a D coordinators dream!!!

 

I don't think there's a scenario where Gilmore isn't extended this off season, at least not from OBD perspective. People underestimate exactly how much Darby's stellar first half of the season had to do with Gilmore being on the other side of the field during games and in practice. People are also forgetting that when Gilmore went out, Darby's play dropped.

 

I know people want to say Darby's the best CB on the roster now, but he's not, it's #24. Doesn't mean Darby can't become the best CB on the roster, his trajectory seems to indicate he can become that guy, but there's no need to rush it. Get three more seasons of Gimore and Darby together for the price of one and then decide how much 24 is worth when Darby's rookie deal is up in '19.

[purple haze]

I continue to believe that many folks that disagree on Gilmore being elite simply don't watch a lot of other corners play.

 

Everyone gets beat.

 

Everyone.

 

Every game.

 

What Gilmore brings with his blend of size and speed can't be taught. He's also becoming more aggressive and learning to dial in his leverages better.

 

My favorite thing about him is that he consistently seems to improve as the season progresses.

 

He's going to get a monster deal (think $11M-$12M per), and I hope it's here

Preach... Gilmore was inconsistent at the start of his career. It's like folks think about a player one way, they will never change that view in spite of evidence to the contrary. I don't get how anyone can watch Gilmore and think he's not gone to a another level. He does get nicked up, because he is a total corner. He will throw his body around. Needs to work on his technique, no doubt, but there's nothing not to like about Gilmore, especially compared to most CB's in the league.

 

I don't think there's a scenario where Gilmore isn't extended this off season, at least not from OBD perspective. People underestimate exactly how much Darby's stellar first half of the season had to do with Gilmore being on the other side of the field during games and in practice. People are also forgetting that when Gilmore went out, Darby's play dropped.

 

I know people want to say Darby's the best CB on the roster now, but he's not, it's #24. Doesn't mean Darby can't become the best CB on the roster, his trajectory seems to indicate he can become that guy, but there's no need to rush it. Get three more seasons of Gimore and Darby together for the price of one and then decide how much 24 is worth when Darby's rookie deal is up in '19.

What is this common sense you speak?

[YoloinOhio]

I like Darby a lot (obviously, he looked like a top 10 talent out there) and I do think he excelled more quickly than Gilmore did out of the gate, but I do not think he is better than Gilmore at this time. I actually would credit Gilmore some for Darby's acceleration, given he took him under his wing.

Edited January 23, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[26CornerBlitz]

I like Darby a lot (obviously, he looked like a top 10 talent out there) and I do think he excelled more quickly than Gilmore did out of the gate, but I do not think he is better than Gilmore at this time. I actually would credit Gilmore some for Darby's acceleration, given he took him under his wing.

 

@BuffRumblings

CB is a bright spot for the #Bills heading into the 2016 season: http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2016/1/23/10818746/buffalo-bills-cornerbacks-stephon-gilmore-ronald-darby-nickell-robey

[3rdand12]

 

I don't think there's a scenario where Gilmore isn't extended this off season, at least not from OBD perspective. People underestimate exactly how much Darby's stellar first half of the season had to do with Gilmore being on the other side of the field during games and in practice. People are also forgetting that when Gilmore went out, Darby's play dropped.

 

I know people want to say Darby's the best CB on the roster now, but he's not, it's #24. Doesn't mean Darby can't become the best CB on the roster, his trajectory seems to indicate he can become that guy, but there's no need to rush it. Get three more seasons of Gimore and Darby together for the price of one and then decide how much 24 is worth when Darby's rookie deal is up in '19.

I might guess this is how OBD sees it.

Folks get caught up in the financials, but thats just the reality of the game.

[Steve Billieve]

Great, so the Bills have an elite china doll. I'm not sure if that's good or bad?

several i think

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

I don't think there's a scenario where Gilmore isn't extended this off season, at least not from OBD perspective. People underestimate exactly how much Darby's stellar first half of the season had to do with Gilmore being on the other side of the field during games and in practice. People are also forgetting that when Gilmore went out, Darby's play dropped.

 

I know people want to say Darby's the best CB on the roster now, but he's not, it's #24. Doesn't mean Darby can't become the best CB on the roster, his trajectory seems to indicate he can become that guy, but there's no need to rush it. Get three more seasons of Gimore and Darby together for the price of one and then decide how much 24 is worth when Darby's rookie deal is up in '19.

I don't see how Gilmore being absent from the field would cause Darby's play to drop. Did Darby just get super bummed out that his mentor was away?

My understanding is the Bills line their corners up consistently on a given side of the field, and have 'em cover whatever receiver happens to line up across from them. They don't play the matchup game.

People seem to be thinking with Gilmore out, Darby's life would be more difficult having to deal with #1 WRs. On the contrary, his life was probably easier, as teams looked to target Malcolm Butler or whoever, and lined up accordingly.

 

I think Gilmore is really good (and good players at key positions win games). I do think Darby was even better this season. If we're talking about who's elite, to me Darby is closer.

 

But it doesn't matter. When you build a team you give your coaches the pieces that will make them better. On offense, linemen are the only thing that will make Roman better in an appreciable way. On defense, Rex is a disaster when he doesn't have multiple press cover corners. He needs front 7 help too, but it'll hardly matter if we can't cover man to man.

[thebandit27]

I don't see how Gilmore being absent from the field would cause Darby's play to drop. Did Darby just get super bummed out that his mentor was away?

My understanding is the Bills line their corners up consistently on a given side of the field, and have 'em cover whatever receiver happens to line up across from them. They don't play the matchup game.

People seem to be thinking with Gilmore out, Darby's life would be more difficult having to deal with #1 WRs. On the contrary, his life was probably easier, as teams looked to target Malcolm Butler or whoever, and lined up accordingly.

 

I think Gilmore is really good (and good players at key positions win games). I do think Darby was even better this season. If we're talking about who's elite, to me Darby is closer.

 

But it doesn't matter. When you build a team you give your coaches the pieces that will make them better. On offense, linemen are the only thing that will make Roman better in an appreciable way. On defense, Rex is a disaster when he doesn't have multiple press cover corners. He needs front 7 help too, but it'll hardly matter if we can't cover man to man.

Good post.

 

Not sure I agree with the ideas about Darby and the OL; very well thought through though.

 

To me, it seemed that Darby did face more challenges from #1s after Gilmore's departure. It stems from teams not wanting to cut the field in half by giving up the matchup of their #2 or 3 against him.

 

Regardless, I agree that both are very good, and both need to be here.

 

As to Roman, he needs a boundary target with some size at least as much as he needs a RT. The biggest help he could get , IMO, would be for Taylor to speed up his release and learn to climb to safety instead of bailing out of pockets to the side/back.

[Deranged Rhino]

I don't see how Gilmore being absent from the field would cause Darby's play to drop. Did Darby just get super bummed out that his mentor was away?

 

No, look at Darby's numbers. All of his INTs and half of his pass breakups happened in the first quarter of the season while Gilmore was not only healthy but playing brilliantly.

 

The drop in numbers (coupled with watching the games themselves as numbers never tell the full story) show that Darny was much more effective with Gilmore lined up next to him than he was with Gilmore on ice.

[Agent 91]

I don't see how Gilmore being absent from the field would cause Darby's play to drop. Did Darby just get super bummed out that his mentor was away?

My understanding is the Bills line their corners up consistently on a given side of the field, and have 'em cover whatever receiver happens to line up across from them. They don't play the matchup game.

People seem to be thinking with Gilmore out, Darby's life would be more difficult having to deal with #1 WRs. On the contrary, his life was probably easier, as teams looked to target Malcolm Butler or whoever, and lined up accordingly.

 

I think Gilmore is really good (and good players at key positions win games). I do think Darby was even better this season. If we're talking about who's elite, to me Darby is closer.

 

But it doesn't matter. When you build a team you give your coaches the pieces that will make them better. On offense, linemen are the only thing that will make Roman better in an appreciable way. On defense, Rex is a disaster when he doesn't have multiple press cover corners. He needs front 7 help too, but it'll hardly matter if we can't cover man to man.

Why are you making sense. The inverse of the scenario is correct. A second tier cb is not gonna get worse when a top tier guy is out. In fact what type of dumb head qb throws at the cb who has been playing the whole season and doesnt pick on the new guy. This is not the d line who directly benefits from a line mates play. Darby has been making plays plays Gilmore havent made. Is he better maybe but I know Darbys trajectory gives him the the potential to leave Gilmore in the dust. And thisnwhole taken under his wing deal? Thats all fine but guess what. They dont play anything alike. Darby is an in the hip pocket nuisance. While Gilmore.... not really sure what he is. He does not read and react at all. They are both adequate island cbs. And both well exceeded my expectations.

[Agent 91]

No, look at Darby's numbers. All of his INTs and half of his pass breakups happened in the first quarter of the season while Gilmore was not only healthy but playing brilliantly.

 

The drop in numbers (coupled with watching the games themselves as numbers never tell the full story) show that Darny was much more effective with Gilmore lined up next to him than he was with Gilmore on ice.

But by that same logic. Doesnt it tell you that teams feared throwing to Darby as his PBUs and Ints went down. Also lets add in the turnstyle safety play of Duke Williams and Bacari Rambo. The number 1 guys are going to make plays thats why they are number 1. Darby showed he was pretty durable and fearless. Lets see what he does after hitting the sophmore wall. But A cornerback with 3-4 times as many defensive holding and PI as ints im hesitant to call elite... and also hesitant to pay elite money to a non finished product

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Good post.

 

Not sure I agree with the ideas about Darby and the OL; very well thought through though.

 

To me, it seemed that Darby did face more challenges from #1s after Gilmore's departure. It stems from teams not wanting to cut the field in half by giving up the matchup of their #2 or 3 against him.

 

Regardless, I agree that both are very good, and both need to be here.

 

As to Roman, he needs a boundary target with some size at least as much as he needs a RT. The biggest help he could get , IMO, would be for Taylor to speed up his release and learn to climb to safety instead of bailing out of pockets to the side/back.

Thanks for the help on Darby- I don't know one way or another but at least that's a mechanism for Darby's life being more difficult which makes logical sense. I think Darby is a slightly better corner today but this is mostly a subjective view.

 

I think it was K-9 who earlier in this thread painted Gilmore's title quote as a negotiating ploy. I hope that Mr. 9 is correct.

 

I don't see any extenuating circumstances over Gilmore's time in Buffalo that would lead me to pay him a dime on prospect. While I applauded your earlier point that everyone gets beat (that gets forgotten at more positions than just corner), and while I see him as a quality corner and a piece of some value, he isn't in the ballpark of a Sherman or Peterson imo, so I can't see paying him as such.

 

 

It's a long offseason and I'm sure we'll have the opportunity to talk offense in a more appropriate thread, so I'll try (really I will!) to be brief here.

 

I think if you want to get more production out of the passing game, the answer is simply to throw the football more. We were 31st in pass attempts, 28th in passing yards, yet tied for 6th in yards per pass play.

 

Watkins was underused- capable of more than his final stat line. There may not be a human being alive today who can cover Sammy Watkins. The Chiefs game is a clear example: in the first half he catches 6 for 158 and 2 TDs, almost singlehandedly lifting the Bills to a 16-14 halftime lead on the road over an eventual playoff team. In the second half he gets 1 target for 0 catches, and the Bills lose 30-22. If you want more production just throw it more.

 

Charles Clay, matchup nightmare for safeties and linebackers, capable of more than we got from him. Ditto for Lesean McCoy's role in the passing game.

 

There are only so many balls to go around when you're 31st in pass attempts. I do not expect that 31st mark to drastically change under Rex and Roman. This is the philosophy they have separately used for the entirety of their careers. Its the reason they see eye to eye and joined together in Buffalo. Running as much as possible is simply the way they go about winning a football game and its not going anywhere. I don't know how much difference it makes to have 4 matchup nightmares rather than 3, when we were efficient this year but still chose not to pass the ball.

 

However, I look at our ranking of 19th in 3rd down percentage. I think of all the times on 3rd down and 1 or 2 to go, we ended up heaving incomplete fly routes and punting. And I have to think if you were to plug in Roman's old line from SF, you're going to see an appreciably more efficient offense, one which can dominate opponents and stay on the field. One which can run the ball in short yardage, or on 1st down, or in the red zone.

 

If we're going to ground and pound, lets build the corresponding roster, is my thought. Winning by running the ball in a passing league is already an uphill battle, so lets come prepared for it.

 

Go Bills

 

edit- I agree with your words about Taylor, but this is not in the hands of the GM.

Why are you making sense. The inverse of the scenario is correct. A second tier cb is not gonna get worse when a top tier guy is out. In fact what type of dumb head qb throws at the cb who has been playing the whole season and doesnt pick on the new guy. This is not the d line who directly benefits from a line mates play. Darby has been making plays plays Gilmore havent made. Is he better maybe but I know Darbys trajectory gives him the the potential to leave Gilmore in the dust. And thisnwhole taken under his wing deal? Thats all fine but guess what. They dont play anything alike. Darby is an in the hip pocket nuisance. While Gilmore.... not really sure what he is. He does not read and react at all. They are both adequate island cbs. And both well exceeded my expectations.

 

But by that same logic. Doesnt it tell you that teams feared throwing to Darby as his PBUs and Ints went down. Also lets add in the turnstyle safety play of Duke Williams and Bacari Rambo. The number 1 guys are going to make plays thats why they are number 1. Darby showed he was pretty durable and fearless. Lets see what he does after hitting the sophmore wall. But A cornerback with 3-4 times as many defensive holding and PI as ints im hesitant to call elite... and also hesitant to pay elite money to a non finished product

Edited January 26, 2016 by Aaron

[26CornerBlitz]

@TyDunne

New at the BN Blog: Super Bowl corners another sign of Stephon Gilmore's value to #Bills... http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/02/03/250076/