machine gun kelly Posted February 7, 2016 Posted February 7, 2016 Weo, I told you TO wasn't getting in this year. I was wrong on Faneca, so 4 for 5. I did pick Stabler but missed on Dungy. i love Dungy and he lives near me. He really is the nice guy he portrays on TV. One of my best friends attends the same church, and he even is out there directing traffic with his reflector vest on as humble as they come. I'm very happy for him, and for the class. I'm sure TO will get in next year, as well as Lynch i hope.
GOBILLS78 Posted February 7, 2016 Posted February 7, 2016 Greene never struck me as a Hall of Fame-level player. He was a good player -- some years. I wish I could hear how his advocates presented him to the committee. Maybe I'm just ignorant.
hondo in seattle Posted February 7, 2016 Posted February 7, 2016 What an lame group in total, minus Favre and Stabler (obvious choices). Bartolo?? The guy is a convicted felon who was suspended by the NFL for involvement in a gaming scheme. Harrison ahead of TO? That's a laugh. Harrison spent his career with Manning. TO's most prolific connection was with Jeff Garcia--and TO had far more TDs. Harrison likely shot at least one person. Tony Dungy....forget ahead of Coryell, how about AT ALL? What did Dungy get in for? Squandering talented rosters in Indy to the tune of the worst playoff coaching record ever? ONE SB appearance. 9-10 playoff record (with what will be 5 HOF nominees on offense in Indy). His teams were often ill prepared in the playoffs and he had 4 "one and dones" in 7 appearances with Indy. Over an actual coach and innovator like Coryell? A bad joke. Crazy. I agree that Coryell ought to get in over Dungy. But I do think Dungy deserves enshrinement. Regards to his playoff losses. Bad coaches don't get to the playoffs. Good coaches do get to the playoffs. And all but one of those 12 good coaches will end their season with a loss. One of the reasons Dungy has so many playoff losses is because he was good enough to get to the playoffs every year. That's rare. Regards to his HOF players. This is a tough one. Good players get their coaches into the HOF. At the same time, good coaches get their players into the HOF. Which is going on here? Maybe a little of both???
Solomon Grundy Posted February 8, 2016 Posted February 8, 2016 T.O. not getting in is pure nonsense!! Those who voted against him should be identified and stripped of their right to vote.
Mr. WEO Posted February 8, 2016 Posted February 8, 2016 I agree that Coryell ought to get in over Dungy. But I do think Dungy deserves enshrinement. Regards to his playoff losses. Bad coaches don't get to the playoffs. Good coaches do get to the playoffs. And all but one of those 12 good coaches will end their season with a loss. One of the reasons Dungy has so many playoff losses is because he was good enough to get to the playoffs every year. That's rare. Regards to his HOF players. This is a tough one. Good players get their coaches into the HOF. At the same time, good coaches get their players into the HOF. Which is going on here? Maybe a little of both??? No. Jim Caldwell got the same team to the SB. Dungy got in because he is the only black HC to win a SB.
26CornerBlitz Posted February 8, 2016 Author Posted February 8, 2016 No. Jim Caldwell got the same team to the SB. Dungy got in because he is the only black HC to win a SB. No objections to Dungy getting in if Marv Levy is in.
Doc Posted February 8, 2016 Posted February 8, 2016 T.O. not getting in is pure nonsense!! Those who voted against him should be identified and stripped of their right to vote. He should have made it in over Harrison.
Mr. WEO Posted February 8, 2016 Posted February 8, 2016 No objections to Dungy getting in if Marv Levy is in. Marv went to 4 straight SBs. Dungy barely made it to one, with a loaded offense and some star talent on D. It's not even comparable, the playoff record between the 2. Dungy wasted so many playoffs. Mike Martz should have gotten in before Dungy.
26CornerBlitz Posted February 8, 2016 Author Posted February 8, 2016 Marv went to 4 straight SBs. Dungy barely made it to one, with a loaded offense and some star talent on D. It's not even comparable, the playoff record between the 2. Dungy wasted so many playoffs. Mike Martz should have gotten in before Dungy. Martz before Dungy lol
Manther Posted February 8, 2016 Posted February 8, 2016 The NFL hof consists mainly of good players- not great ones. MLB takes only the greats in CooperstownI lean that way too. Less is more for these elite clubs. Otherwise, they aren't elite. DeBartolo was overdue, and Harrison should have been a 1st time ballot. Favre was obvious, and Pace makes a lot of sense. Dungy could have waited longer. Maybe a lot longer. Greene?! Really?! I'm sorry, I know he has a high number of sacks, I just don't think he was Hall of Fame worthy. Warner & Owens not making it in, is ridiculous. I agree with you on DeBartolo, Harrison and Favre. I don't think Dungy should be in, but, don't have a strong opinion on it. I don't think Warner should be in either. Greene probably not. TO will get in and should.Dungy over Coryell is not right either.Agree Agree with what has been said. Coryell and TO over Harrison and Dungy for me. I can understand why Warner didn't make it this year with a QB who was a sure fire first ballot guy.... but his wait should end in 2017. I understand him not being forst ballot, I understand them not putting him in the same year as Favre but he should wait no longer. Kurt Warner is a HoF QB and he should go in next year. The tough part I have with Warner is he was a backup on multiple teams. How is that elite or HOF worthy? No objections to Dungy getting in if Marv Levy is in. Disagree. The two have some similarities. But, you can't compare them.
GunnerBill Posted February 8, 2016 Posted February 8, 2016 The tough part I have with Warner is he was a backup on multiple teams. How is that elite or HoF worthy? For me there are a few things. 1. It isn't called the Hall of Great. It is called the Hall of Fame. The QB who went from bagging groceries to Superbowl and NFL MVP is one of the most famous NFL stories of the last 20 years. It is like the people who say "why is Marv there his team never won the big one" the Bills story of getting to 4 in a row is famous. 2. He played for 3 NFL teams and was never only a backup on any of them. He starred when his chance came in St Louis, was used purely as a bridge guy in New York for Eli and then went to Arizona as a backup but won the job pretty quickly. 3. The three highest passing yardage numbers in Superbowl history? All Kurt Warner's. 4. He took the Rams and the Cardinals to the Superbowl. The Rams and the Cardinals. His play brought hope to previously moribund franchises. As I say - first ballot guy? No the mid career slump at the end in St Louis and the year in New York put paid to that. In ahead of Favre? No, clearly not. But a guy who belongs in the Hall? 100%.
Manther Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 For me there are a few things. 1. It isn't called the Hall of Great. It is called the Hall of Fame. The QB who went from bagging groceries to Superbowl and NFL MVP is one of the most famous NFL stories of the last 20 years. It is like the people who say "why is Marv there his team never won the big one" the Bills story of getting to 4 in a row is famous. 2. He played for 3 NFL teams and was never only a backup on any of them. He starred when his chance came in St Louis, was used purely as a bridge guy in New York for Eli and then went to Arizona as a backup but won the job pretty quickly. 3. The three highest passing yardage numbers in Superbowl history? All Kurt Warner's. 4. He took the Rams and the Cardinals to the Superbowl. The Rams and the Cardinals. His play brought hope to previously moribund franchises. As I say - first ballot guy? No the mid career slump at the end in St Louis and the year in New York put paid to that. In ahead of Favre? No, clearly not. But a guy who belongs in the Hall? 100%. On your first point, agree to disagree, I have never heard anyone say the HoF is for famous people. Just don't believe that or there would be different standards to get in? Secondly, I am not against him getting in. Just don't have a final opinion on Warner. Lastly, a question... I thought Warner lost his starting job in St. Louis before they parted ways? I also believe he lost his job with the Giants before they planned to start Eli (prematurely than the teams plan, imo) because Warner was playing poorly. Those were the two times I believed he was a backup.
MDH Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 Pace and Favre are the only two I'd vote in. In that order too.
Mr. WEO Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 On your first point, agree to disagree, I have never heard anyone say the HoF is for famous people. Just don't believe that or there would be different standards to get in? Secondly, I am not against him getting in. Just don't have a final opinion on Warner. Lastly, a question... I thought Warner lost his starting job in St. Louis before they parted ways? I also believe he lost his job with the Giants before they planned to start Eli (prematurely than the teams plan, imo) because Warner was playing poorly. Those were the two times I believed he was a backup. You mean other than leading 2 moribund franchises tot eh SB and winning one for STL? Like playing in back to back SBs (3 total) and being named SB MVP? Like setting regular season and playoff records? So what if the Rams benched him....5 years later he would have another record setting season and lead another perennially crappy team to the SB. Martz before Dungy lol Martz created one of the most potent offenses in NFL history using a guy off the street as QB and helped get them to 2 SBs and win one. He created a top 7 offense with John Kitna in Detroit. Dungy is known for being Peyton Manning's HC..a guy who squeezed a single SB out of a HOF offense and who's defenses were often lackluster (despite his being a defensive coach by trade). His playoff record was bad.
GunnerBill Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) On your first point, agree to disagree, I have never heard anyone say the HoF is for famous people. Just don't believe that or there would be different standards to get in? Secondly, I am not against him getting in. Just don't have a final opinion on Warner. Lastly, a question... I thought Warner lost his starting job in St. Louis before they parted ways? I also believe he lost his job with the Giants before they planned to start Eli (prematurely than the teams plan, imo) because Warner was playing poorly. Those were the two times I believed he was a backup. You have surely heard people say - "can you write the story without them?" If you are writing the story of the early 90s NFL you can't write it without Marv Levy's Bills and that is why he deserves to be there more than some other Head Coaches who may have got there once and won a ring. If you are writing the story of the early 00s NFL you can't write it without the story of the Quarterback who went from bagging groceries to league and Superbowl MVP. That is what I mean by Hall of Fame and not Hall of Great. It is about more than stats for me. It is about impact and story as well as stats and when you stack those factors up with Kurt Warner he belongs in the HoF. EDIT: Also the Giants were 5-4 when they benched Warner (62% passing, 6 TDs 4INTs - not great but far from terrible) for Manning. That benching was all about them wanting to get Manning on the field they went 1-6 down the stretch and Eli was awful.... they never went back to Kurt because they didn't care about winning that season... it was a season about getting Eli experience. Edited February 9, 2016 by GunnerBill
26CornerBlitz Posted February 10, 2016 Author Posted February 10, 2016 Terrell Owens heard that Cris Carter 'begged his way' into Hall of Fame Terrell Owens, who missed out on the Hall of Fame this year, ripped Cris Carter for allegedly begging 'his way into the Hall of Fame.'
K-9 Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 The bar for coaches has seemingly been set at winning at least one or appearing in multiple championship games. Coryell may never get in given that threshold. Sid Gillman seems to be the modern day exception and when I look at that Gillman tree, it's amazing. But as much as we want to credit Coryell for "innovation", I think the voters already gave that credit to Gillman. GO BILLS!!!
26CornerBlitz Posted February 10, 2016 Author Posted February 10, 2016 You mean other than leading 2 moribund franchises tot eh SB and winning one for STL? Like playing in back to back SBs (3 total) and being named SB MVP? Like setting regular season and playoff records? So what if the Rams benched him....5 years later he would have another record setting season and lead another perennially crappy team to the SB. Martz created one of the most potent offenses in NFL history using a guy off the street as QB and helped get them to 2 SBs and win one. He created a top 7 offense with John Kitna in Detroit. Dungy is known for being Peyton Manning's HC..a guy who squeezed a single SB out of a HOF offense and who's defenses were often lackluster (despite his being a defensive coach by trade). His playoff record was bad. Martz also blew a Super Bowl by passing too much instead of feeding the ball to Marshall Faulk. Martz is not HOF worthy and will NEVER get in!
Chuck Wagon Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 For me there are a few things. 1. It isn't called the Hall of Great. It is called the Hall of Fame. The QB who went from bagging groceries to Superbowl and NFL MVP is one of the most famous NFL stories of the last 20 years. It is like the people who say "why is Marv there his team never won the big one" the Bills story of getting to 4 in a row is famous. 2. He played for 3 NFL teams and was never only a backup on any of them. He starred when his chance came in St Louis, was used purely as a bridge guy in New York for Eli and then went to Arizona as a backup but won the job pretty quickly. 3. The three highest passing yardage numbers in Superbowl history? All Kurt Warner's. 4. He took the Rams and the Cardinals to the Superbowl. The Rams and the Cardinals. His play brought hope to previously moribund franchises. As I say - first ballot guy? No the mid career slump at the end in St Louis and the year in New York put paid to that. In ahead of Favre? No, clearly not. But a guy who belongs in the Hall? 100%. I've been beating the drum for a while when it comes to Warner and the HOF, IMO I think he clearly belongs. Some food for thought: 2nd all time in Super Bowl passing yards / 8th all time in Super Bowl passer rating 8th all time in Playoff passing yards / 6th all time in playoff passing TDs / 2nd all time in Playoff passer rating 2 time NFL MVP Player A: 12 seasons / career record of 67-49 (58% winning %) / 65% completion / 32,344 yards / 208 TDs / 128 picks / 93.7 passer rating Player B: 12 seasons / career record of 94-71 (57% winning %) / 62% completion / 32,943 yards / 165 TDs / 141 picks / 81.6 passer rating Player A is Warner / Player B is Troy Aikman
26CornerBlitz Posted February 11, 2016 Author Posted February 11, 2016 @PaulPabst NFL HOF voter Gary Myers took us in the room and said that @terrellowens "disruptive" presence as teammate is why he didn't make Hall. @barryap1 Barry Petchesky Retweeted Paul Pabst Marvin Harrison killed a dude.
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