Canadian Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 I miss Chandler Said no one ever CBF
Deranged Rhino Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 I like Clay. I thought was very good last year. But his production does not warrant being paid as a top 5 TE. Only if you're looking at passing numbers. His impact in the running game, his flexibility and ability to play all over the field is valuable to a run heavy attack like Roman's.
KOKBILLS Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Bandit, all respect, but some would say releasing Mario Williams, Kyle Williams, Aaron Williams, and McKelvin would be a pretty deep cut if it's not a gut. That's like 4 of 11 starters on D. It may be a needed path, but it would be mightly hard to replace those 4 adequately AND upgrade at LB, rt side of the OL, and WR. You may be right...But is that not the path the Bills have already chosen by hiring and keeping Ryan?...At this point is it not pretty much predetermined that this roster is going to see some serious overhaul cap issues or not?
dulles Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 When was the last time that too little cap space hindered the Bills from signing someone? I'm honestly asking because I don't remember when that's happened. It's not like the Bills are losing people because they're too tight against the cap. Sure, this year looks a little tight, but until it actually hurts the front office, I'm not going to be too concerned. It never was about cap, it was always about cash. We were always strapped to a secret budget that had nothing to do with the salary cap. Being tight to the cap is not bad business per se. We made a push in FA last year. This year we have to adjust. This is "every year" territory for teams that contend regularly. Success drives up the cost of players. We'll get through. Don't worry.
BarleyNY Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 just because they made a few questionable moves regarding salaries doesn't make them one of the worst. A few moves to be made and they'll be ok...you said it yourself They thought it was realistic and so did many here...... High expectations for the D and with Harvin, Clay, McCoy, Sammy...everyone said with decent QB we could be contenders The cumulative effect of their moves and lack of success puts them in a difficult position. I'd put them in bottom 5 in the league. I didn't say they'll be okay. They might be, but they also might have a real problem staying even with this year. Then there's 2017. A lot of the contracts that we are discussing here are going to have much lower numbers in 2016 than they will in 2017 so the horizon isn't great either. Many of the fans were overexuberant to be sure, but I wasn't and neither were a lot of other people. I thought that the Bills would be good, but I thought their chances of winning a championship were negligible. The lack of a proven franchise QB was a big part of that. I thought that the defense would be better and that the Bills would squeak into the playoffs, then lose in the WC round. Their ceiling was one playoff win if they got a good draw. Their floor was 6 or 7 wins depending upon QB play and the time it took to adjust to the new schemes. That's not the time to push in free agency. They've got to draft their way out of this and I have little faith in their ability to do so (but it could happen). After all, that's what got them into the situation that they are in. They've had to try to make up for poor drafting by going the free agency route and that has to change or things will get worse, not better.
BillsVet Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 If the Bills are talking about cap issues and don't have a franchise QB as the highest paid player on the team, then they are bad at managing the cap. #Machiawhaleyian Dude's straight cash-money and even has Bills fans fooled.
John from Riverside Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Part of the problem is that they needed to go out and sign Mario because of serious lack of developing any pass rushers on their own at the time that they signed him. Same with Clay. The Bills had so neglected any kind of development of a TE that they needed to go out and overpay for Charles Clay. Now releasing Mario will help get them back into shape, but restructuring Clay will still put him as one the top 3-4 cap numbers for a TE in the NFL. Some players fit the offense they play in perfectly That is Clay
Kirby Jackson Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 #Machiawhaleyian Dude's straight cash-money and even has Bills fans fooled. 7,181 posts and still not a positive word. Why do you only chime in to complain about something? It is kind of fascinating.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 How are the Bills so bad at cap management when until this year we have been significantly under the cap each year. Whaley had two less draft picks so he went with Pegula's permission bought some top offensive talent. Other than one poster, McCoy has been a success, so has Clay, Incognito, and Harvin was a good bet that didn't end up in costing us that much money. Had to pay the going rate for an elite DT in Dareus as he is a top 4 DT in the NFL. We did not over pay for Kyle Williams nor did we for Hughes. Mario has not been worth it so we're dumping him and spending it on resigning our talent before they walk. This is a good plan. We need to upgrade in our draft, which is what the good teams do and do not overspend in free agency. Look for maybe a couple of role players we don't over pay to fit Rex's defense. I can be very critical of the Bills at times, but not in this area. /thread 7,181 posts and still not a positive word. Why do you only chime in to complain about something? It is kind of fascinating. It's honestly not even worth asking.
Malazan Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Guys says stupid thing. Fanbase rushes to correct him. Instant popularity.
John from Riverside Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 7,181 posts and still not a positive word. Why do you only chime in to complain about something? It is kind of fascinating. Somewhere out there......is a very very very unhappy person
QCity Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Maybe some of the people on this board that consider themselves experts on salary cap management should take a look at some of the other rosters in the NFL. If you did, you would quickly see that by comparison, the Bills have done very poorly with their spending. This doesn't necessarily mean the Bills are in cap trouble. But hey,venting outrage at any perceived criticism has become the hallmark of this fanbase.
thebandit27 Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Maybe some of the people on this board that consider themselves experts on salary cap management should take a look at some of the other rosters in the NFL. If you did, you would quickly see that by comparison, the Bills have done very poorly with their spending. This doesn't necessarily mean the Bills are in cap trouble. But hey,venting outrage at any perceived criticism has become the hallmark of this fanbase. More like the bold statement has become a calling card for anyone that challenges misappropriate criticism. Tell you what: there's been plenty of discussion in this thread as to why the cap situation here is fine...why don't you provide some factual basis for your position instead of coming in here with daggers for those that have already supported theirs?
Manther Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 I actually think that they have done a pretty good job manipulating the cap. Things like the Clay deal structured in a way that Miami couldn't match but easy to restructure are cap wins IMO.Agreed! How are the Bills so bad at cap management when until this year we have been significantly under the cap each year. Whaley had two less draft picks so he went with Pegula's permission bought some top offensive talent. Other than one poster, McCoy has been a success, so has Clay, Incognito, and Harvin was a good bet that didn't end up in costing us that much money. Had to pay the going rate for an elite DT in Dareus as he is a top 4 DT in the NFL. We did not over pay for Kyle Williams nor did we for Hughes. Mario has not been worth it so we're dumping him and spending it on resigning our talent before they walk. This is a good plan. We need to upgrade in our draft, which is what the good teams do and do not overspend in free agency. Look for maybe a couple of role players we don't over pay to fit Rex's defense. I can be very critical of the Bills at times, but not in this area. Well said! I totally agree! AND, BILLieve this was their well thought out plan all along! Kudos to Whaley and the powers to be. The National media will continue to give is no respect until we get onto the playoffs, which is fine by me.To me "managing the cap" doesn't necessarily mean staying under it. It means using it and it's rules to your maximum benefit on a consistent basis. From that standpoint we've been terrible with the cap for a long time. Good teams are usually right up close to the cap every year and have the means and acumen to juggle what needs to be juggled, move money around in the cap shell game, and stay competitive. It's a rare team that is truly competitive AND a ton under the cap on a regular basis. The Eagles did it for years but frankly if they'd used a little more of their cap space they might have gotten themselves over the hump to a SB title. They were always lacking in at least one area when they had the means to fix it, just not the will.Yep! The base cap for 2015 was $143.28M. The 2016 cap hasn't been determined yet, but all of the quality sources for estimates are in the $150M-$154M range. The Bills will gain $7.5M in 2016 from converting Clay's roster bonus to a signing bonus. Cutting Mario yields another $12.9M. Gillmore's number would reduce if signed to a long term deal. They'll have $5M or so in carryover. It's not hopeless, but they've got some expensive players hitting FA and other needs - Glenn, Incognito, Bradham, a QB(s) besides Taylor, Mario's replacement, WR( Harvin won't be back), etc. They won't be cheap to keep or replace and only so much can be done with draft picks. I'd include the Bills on a list of worst cap management in the league right now. They aren't the Saints or the Dolphins, but they aren't in good shape and they've made some poor decisions with their space. When you're dumping guys like Mario for the space, but have signed guys like Clay to big deals you've got issues. The Bills already made some decisions about who stays and who goes when they inked the Clay, Shady, Harvin and Hughes deals. Now we see if they can navigate through some very rough waters. Disagree I don't expect RI to be an expensive deal, and Glenn might come at a bit of a discount. Plus, if they extend Gilmore they'll lower his 16 cap number by a lot, giving the team more room. There's lots of ways for the Bills to maneuver the cap without gutting the roster. Bradham might not be back (and I like him) but otherwise I expect them to retain the guys they really want (Glenn, RI, extend Gilmore, restructure Clay). Agreed! Bradham probably won't be back. But, does he fit on this team? Especially at $5 M a year? Another good move by Whaley not extending Bradham at that price at the beginning of the season. Someone will over pay and I am glad it wasn't us!
Deranged Rhino Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Agreed! Bradham probably won't be back. But, does he fit on this team? Especially at $5 M a year? Another good move by Whaley not extending Bradham at that price at the beginning of the season. Someone will over pay and I am glad it wasn't us! Yup, good point to bring up. I am a big Nigel fan and really expected him to be better in this scheme than he was this year. I would have loved to see them lock him up during last off season, but that's why I'm not a GM. It seems like it'll be best for both Nigel and the Bills if he moves on.
Manther Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 I like Clay. I thought was very good last year. But his production does not warrant being paid as a top 5 TE. He may or may not be the ideal cap hit, but, that is what you do in FA....over spend. He is slightly over paid it is how you pry players away from other teams and lure them. That is why you can't build thru FA. You can take a shot here and there, but, it needs to be for the right player. I think Whaley and the Bills did it for the right player.
BillsVet Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 7,181 posts and still not a positive word. Why do you only chime in to complain about something? It is kind of fascinating. Somewhere out there......is a very very very unhappy person H8rs gonna hate. Seriously, sometimes people care about making the playoffs. Those people, of which I'm one, demand accountability and not excuses after the longest post-season drought in North American professional sports. I question whether people like you are more interested in just being a happy fan ignorant of results than actually having a great team. IMO, a fan should criticize a franchise when they continually are lapped by other average NFL teams. Specifically, you've got teams like Arizona, Washington, Minnesota, Carolina, Seattle that are now post-season bound. You know, the teams who've rebuilt to varying degrees and were stuck in the mud in 2010 when your last rebuild under the previous GM began? Although this may be a new rebuild now that RR is aboard, I don't know anymore. Sure there were silver linings this year. But there isn't a fan out there who, at the beginning of the season, would have been satisfied with being all but eliminated from the playoffs in week 14. No way.
billsfan714 Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) For those not worried about the cap, heres a few points to consider. 1. Not to be overlooked: Hogan, Rambo, Bryant, Charles, Powell, Gray, Mills all RFAs for Bills. Even minimum tenders = $11M+ total cap space. 2. Glenn and Incognito will be about 12-13 million a year total 3. You have to have money for a rookie pool, dont think our draft picks are playing for free. Sorry folks but it is bad. Edited January 7, 2016 by billsfan714
BuffaloBillsForever Posted January 7, 2016 Author Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) For those not worried about the cap, heres a few points to consider. 1. Not to be overlooked: Hogan, Rambo, Bryant, Charles, Powell, Gray, Mills all RFAs for Bills. Even minimum tenders = $11M+ total cap space. 2. Glenn and Incognito will be about 12-13 million a year total 3. You have to have money for a rookie pool, dont think our draft picks are playing for free. Sorry folks but it is bad. Yup. You probably have to allocate 5-7 million for the rookie pool. Edited January 7, 2016 by BuffaloBillsForever
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