Possible, partial explanation for why D was bad

[Saxum]

Sacks matter because it equates to getting pressure on the QB and disrupting the opponents passing game and frustrating the QB with hits, hurries, pressures. It's why the Buffalo Bills paid their front four 1/4 billion dollars to get sacks!

Fact correction: They did not PAY them 1/4 billion dollars, they signed them to multiyear contracts potentially worth 1/4 billion dollars which is a big difference.

[Saxum]

It's a tribute to the Bills players that they were 19th against the pass with literally no pass rush almost all year. 21 sacks out of 1,017 with 602 pass attempts at 3.4 percent which is so pathetic Ryan should be embarrassed.

You may not have agreed with method but there was a pass rush; whether it was effectively designed or implemented is a different thing. Exaggeration does not add to your argument but subtracts from it.

[GG]

That was Rex's roster. He was with the team for six years. Need I remind you that he was the HC and responsible for the overall on-field operation. Do you deny that the HC has a major say in shaping the roster? If there was an imbalance between the offense and defense then how could he not to a major degree (not solely) be responsible for it?

 

Think about it: You are doing what battered Buffalo fans have a tendency to do. They make excuses why the Bills lose and make excuses why other teams win. You are adding a new twist to this syndrome by making excuses why our current coach lost when he was with another team. My recommendation is to simply judge on performance without the innumerable "what ifs" explanation to rationalize a poor performance. The bottom line in NY was that Rex was fired for good cause in NY.

 

I take it you missed the spats that Rex had with Idzik in his last two years in NYJ and why Rex was fired? And then Wody basically paying up for players that Rex was clamoring for three years ago?

[JohnC]

 

I take it you missed the spats that Rex had with Idzik in his last two years in NYJ and why Rex was fired? And then Wody basically paying up for players that Rex was clamoring for three years ago?

There is nothing unusual about HCs and GMs having differences. They are approaching their jobs from different perspectives. The bottom line is that Rex had a losing record during his extended stint with the Jets. You might call that a success but I don't.

 

Let's put Rex's performance in NY aside. If you are making the argument that he coached well this year with the Bills then we have irreconcilable positions.

 

I'm a Buffalo Bills fan. My tolerance for never ending manufactured excuses has been exhausted. You judge people on their performances. If you can't handle and accept that basic concept then what is the point of engaging in this discussion.

 

I'll repeat what I have said more than once: The Rex Ryan that ludicrously performed as a HC for the Bills is the same Rex that we hired. You may be comfortable with that but I find it to be infuriating.

 

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/08/19/rex-ryan-jets-real-sports-lichtenstein/

 

[boater]

i read on this very board that it is in fact Rex's fault. True story!

Don't forget Russ Brandon, the board says he's been in football ops as if it were a game of Stratego.

 

...and Joe F calls out Donnie Henderson. That keg cost us the playoffs.

[GG]

There is nothing unusual about HCs and GMs having differences. They are approaching their jobs from different perspectives. The bottom line is that Rex had a losing record during his extended stint with the Jets. You might call that a success but I don't.

 

Let's put Rex's performance in NY aside. If you are making the argument that he coached well this year with the Bills then we have irreconcilable positions.

 

I'm a Buffalo Bills fan. My tolerance for never ending manufactured excuses has been exhausted. You judge people on their performances. If you can't handle and accept that basic concept then what is the point of engaging in this discussion.

 

I'll repeat what I have said more than once: The Rex Ryan that ludicrously performed as a HC for the Bills is the same Rex that we hired. You may be comfortable with that but I find it to be infuriating.

 

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/08/19/rex-ryan-jets-real-sports-lichtenstein/

 

 

This is precisely what I'm talking about your penchant to manufacture an argument. Please point to where I am making the argument that Rex coached well this year with the Bills .

[JohnC]

 

This is precisely what I'm talking about your penchant to manufacture an argument. Please point to where I am making the argument that Rex coached well this year with the Bills .

My point is that not only didn't he coach well in Buffalo (obviously so) he didn't coach well in NY. He was not only a bad hire he was a peculiar hire. He had early success in NY but for the last four years in New York his team faltered. I'm not making up anything in pointing out his record. Again, the coach who under performed in Buffalo was the same blustering coach who performed in NY. We got exactly what we bought. I find that not only very foolish but also very sad.

[GG]

My point is that not only didn't he coach well in Buffalo (obviously so) he didn't coach well in NY. He was not only a bad hire he was a peculiar hire. He had early success in NY but for the last four years in New York his team faltered. I'm not making up anything in pointing out his record. Again, the coach who under performed in Buffalo was the same blustering coach who performed in NY. We got exactly what we bought. I find that not only very foolish but also very sad.

 

You're making things up by saying that people are defending his season in Buffalo.

 

He was not a peculiar hire, as he was the top candidate available last year. You may discount his tenure in NY, but he had success there early on, and of course there was a reason he was available last year.

 

You can predict now that he won't have any success in Buffalo, but then you should ask Dallas Stars fans if they think Lindy Ruff is a horrible coach.

[1st&ten]

I think both Rex and the players came into this season with their noses in the air. The NFL and all of us thought they would be great, and they probably got complacent. Here's to hopin this season was a big wake up and the kick in the ass they need. I do expect a big turn around next year.

Yeah, I knew we were in trouble when the players were talking about being the best defense ever in training camp.

[Nihilarian]

You may not have agreed with method but there was a pass rush; whether it was effectively designed or implemented is a different thing. Exaggeration does not add to your argument but subtracts from it.

Yea, pardon me for exaggerating about going from #1 in the league to 31st in sacks. Dropping a defensive linemen into pass coverage on 3rd down was so successful this year.

[eball]

JohnC, I'll give you credit for one thing: you've left no doubt what your prediction and expectations are for the Rex regime. Time will tell whether you're (sadly) crowing, or (happily) eating crow.

[QuoteTheRaven83]

It's always our offense is horrible and our defense is great, or our offense is good but our defense is horrible. Why can't we ever put it all together?

[JohnC]

JohnC, I'll give you credit for one thing: you've left no doubt what your prediction and expectations are for the Rex regime. Time will tell whether you're (sadly) crowing, or (happily) eating crow.

I don't root against the Bills or root against the players or coaches. In this case I would rather be wrong than be right. However, I know what mediocrity is when I see it. I know what buffoonery is when I see it. I know what immaturity is when I see it. I know what a lack of discipline is when I see it. When someone does a bad job I'm not going to say that they did a good job for the sake of loyalty.

 

Time for excuses is over with. Isn't a generation of lame excuse making enough? There is nothing inappropriate in holding people accountable. Too many people prefer blind loyalty over making judgments based on actual performances. Not I.

 

This season set my fuse. I hated the hire but was willing to see how things worked out. Mostly on defense I witnessed a season replete with dumb-assss coaching decisions. Who do you think was most responsible for such foolishness? If you don't know find out who is the biggest blowhard in the organization is and then you will correctly identify the primary source of the problem.

 

I'm not naive. I recognize that the Bills were not a complete teams. They had roster short-comings as do all teams. But there is little doubt (in my view) that this was an underachieving team on defense, and that was the difference in not making the playoffs.

 

Being a wild-card team isn't a crowning achievement in of itself. But it is a positive step in moving forward. The fans deserved better than what the loquacious HC had to offer.

Edited January 10, 2016 by JohnC

[Nihilarian]

I don't root against the Bills or root against the players or coaches. In this case I would rather be wrong than be right. However, I know what mediocrity is when I see it. I know what buffoonery is when I see it. I know what immaturity is when I see it. I know what a lack of discipline is when I see it. When someone does a bad job I'm not going to say that they did a good job for the sake of loyalty.

 

Time for excuses is over with. Isn't a generation of lame excuse making enough? There is nothing inappropriate in holding people accountable. Too many people prefer blind loyalty over making judgments based on actual performances. Not I.

 

This season set my fuse. I hated the hire but was willing to see how things worked out. Mostly on defense I witnessed a season replete with dumb-assss coaching decisions. Who do you think was most responsible for such foolishness? If you don't know find out who is the biggest blowhard in the organization is and then you will correctly identify the primary source of the problem.

 

I'm not naive. I recognize that the Bills were not a complete teams. They had roster short-comings as do all teams. But there is little doubt (in my view) that this was an underachieving team on defense, and that was the difference in not making the playoffs.

 

Being a wild-card team isn't a crowning achievement in of itself. But it is a positive step in moving forward. The fans deserved better than what the loquacious HC had to offer.

If it's any consolation JohnC I feel the same way.

 

There is little doubt in my mind that even if Rex Ryan builds a #1 defense next year it will end badly because of all the ancillary problems with the team because of Ryan. Simply put Rex Ryan is not the type of head coach that will improve the team over time as he has already showed what will happen over time with him in charge.

 

If I'm Terry Pegula I would have a talk with Bill Cowher to see if he has any interest in coaching again and listen to his ideas on building an SB team. Talk with Tom Coughlin and listen to his plan to build an SB team. Then fire Ryan and hire one of those two men. Both are the antithesis of Ryan and run a strict well-disciplined team.

[JohnC]

If it's any consolation JohnC I feel the same way.

 

There is little doubt in my mind that even if Rex Ryan builds a #1 defense next year it will end badly because of all the ancillary problems with the team because of Ryan. Simply put Rex Ryan is not the type of head coach that will improve the team over time as he has already showed what will happen over time with him in charge.

 

If I'm Terry Pegula I would have a talk with Bill Cowher to see if he has any interest in coaching again and listen to his ideas on building an SB team. Talk with Tom Coughlin and listen to his plan to build an SB team. Then fire Ryan and hire one of those two men. Both are the antithesis of Ryan and run a strict well-disciplined team.

The highlighted section is the primary source of my exasperation with the Rex hire. I have the same depressing sensation that I had with Wilson as an owner or Levy/Brandon/Nix as GMs. Until there were people changes the long term prospects were dim. It's this sensation of walking down an up escalator at the same rate it is moving and getting nowhere.

 

I respectfully but strenuously disagree with your Cowher or Coughlin fallback position. It's the same mentality of reaching back to Polian trying to recapture the past while in the present. That approach usually doesn't work. The Skins brought back Gibbs to right their floundering ship but it didn't have a long term effect. In my view Whaley has a good understanding of the Pittsburgh and Cowher way----a fundamentally sound approach to building a sustaining successful organization.

 

In my view Whaley knows how to build a team. He somewhat deviated from the Pittsburgh approach because he felt that it was important to take short term risks to get over the barrier (as much psychological) of not being in the playoffs for a generation. He was right (in my estimation) that it was a debilitating cloud over this woebegone franchise. It would have worked this season if the HC in his attempt to demonstrate how smart he was on defense demonstrated how dumb he was to the rest of the league. It's akin to telling your power hitter to bunt and telling your high average contact hitter to swing for the fences.

 

 

 

If I'm Terry Pegula I would have a talk with Bill Cowher to see if he has any interest in coaching again and listen to his ideas on building an SB team. Talk with Tom Coughlin and listen to his plan to build an SB team. Then fire Ryan and hire one of those two men. Both are the antithesis of Ryan and run a strict well-disciplined team.

 

The Pegulas should have taken more time to consult with a greater variety of credible sources outside of the organization before the Rex hire. I don't understand why they were in such a hurry to make such an important hire? Rex Ryan was well known in this league. The Rex that was hired was the authentic Rex that we got. That is why I am so exasperated by this ridiculous situation. Whatever happened to the concept of "due diligence"?

Edited January 10, 2016 by JohnC

[GG]

Bump, since this topic was brought up again

[Nihilarian]

The highlighted section is the primary source of my exasperation with the Rex hire. I have the same depressing sensation that I had with Wilson as an owner or Levy/Brandon/Nix as GMs. Until there were people changes the long term prospects were dim. It's this sensation of walking down an up escalator at the same rate it is moving and getting nowhere.

 

I respectfully but strenuously disagree with your Cowher or Coughlin fallback position. It's the same mentality of reaching back to Polian trying to recapture the past while in the present. That approach usually doesn't work. The Skins brought back Gibbs to right their floundering ship but it didn't have a long term effect. In my view Whaley has a good understanding of the Pittsburgh and Cowher way----a fundamentally sound approach to building a sustaining successful organization.

 

In my view Whaley knows how to build a team. He somewhat deviated from the Pittsburgh approach because he felt that it was important to take short term risks to get over the barrier (as much psychological) of not being in the playoffs for a generation. He was right (in my estimation) that it was a debilitating cloud over this woebegone franchise. It would have worked this season if the HC in his attempt to demonstrate how smart he was on defense demonstrated how dumb he was to the rest of the league. It's akin to telling your power hitter to bunt and telling your high average contact hitter to swing for the fences.

 

 

 

 

The Pegulas should have taken more time to consult with a greater variety of credible sources outside of the organization before the Rex hire. I don't understand why they were in such a hurry to make such an important hire? Rex Ryan was well known in this league. The Rex that was hired was the authentic Rex that we got. That is why I am so exasperated by this ridiculous situation. Whatever happened to the concept of "due diligence"?

My reasoning for bringing up those two is that both would do well with the current roster IMO, as both like to pound the rock and play great defense. The difference being is both are old school strong disciplinarians who wouldn't tolerate all the drive-killing penalties and stupid selfish play. This team needs discipline in both the coaching staff and player roster!

 

Both could keep Greg Roman as OC, and bring back Schwartz as DC. Switching back to a 3-4 after watching what happened this past season is another fools errand and a waste of elite player talent.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Nihilarian