Possible, partial explanation for why D was bad

[JohnC]

 

What are the chances that Mario would be with Bills in '16 even if Rex wasn't hired? Other than not making the playoffs in '15, did Rex really set the franchise far back?

I strongly believe (sadly so) that Rex set this franchise back. I'll even go so far as predicting that under Rex this team will never make the playoffs. One way of looking at the Rex effect is comparing it to the GM era of Levy/Brandon/Nix. Because their level of competency was so low compared to the rest of the league there was little chance that the Bills could reasonably compete against franchises that were normally run.

 

It is apparent to everyone that I have a harsh view of the bombastic Rex. As a HC I consider him to be a fraud. Overall his stint in NY was a failure. He lost more games than he won. The team he was fired from was in a shambles when he left the scene. Under a new regime that was more mature and disciplined the team quickly rebounded. The team that Rex went to took a precipitous fall on defense, the side of the ball where it was supposed to be his specialty. His handling of the defense was the difference between making the playoffs and not making it.

 

The Mario issue is directly related to the Rex issue. Under Rex his utility and value are dramatically diminished. High end pass rushers have value while castrated pass rushers do not. Without a doubt Mario under no circumstances could be kept under the terms of his current contract. But there was a chance that a scaled down deal could have been worked out with a productive Mario, especially as a designated pass rusher with limited time on the field. Any chance of that happening has vanished.

[GG]

I strongly believe (sadly so) that Rex set this franchise back. I'll even go so far as predicting that under Rex this team will never make the playoffs. One way of looking at the Rex effect is comparing it to the GM era of Levy/Brandon/Nix. Because their level of competency was so low compared to the rest of the league there was little chance that the Bills could reasonably compete against franchises that were normally run.

 

It is apparent to everyone that I have a harsh view of the bombastic Rex. As a HC I consider him to be a fraud. Overall his stint in NY was a failure. He lost more games than he won. The team he was fired from was in a shambles when he left the scene. Under a new regime that was more mature and disciplined the team quickly rebounded. The team that Rex went to took a precipitous fall on defense, the side of the ball where it was supposed to be his specialty. His handling of the defense was the difference between making the playoffs and not making it.

 

The Mario issue is directly related to the Rex issue. Under Rex his utility and value are dramatically diminished. High end pass rushers have value while castrated pass rushers do not. Without a doubt Mario under no circumstances could be kept under the terms of his current contract. But there was a chance that a scaled down deal could have been worked out with a productive Mario, especially as a designated pass rusher with limited time on the field. Any chance of that happening has vanished.

 

His last four seasons in NY were mired by a pathetically bad offense, and I'm sure you didn't miss the NY media musing about how Woody went out and underwrote a roster that Rex was bitching about for four years. But that's neither here nor there, because it has nothing to do with the Bills going forward.

 

I was among the people surprised at how long it took for the players to get the hang of the defense, and clearly Rex and his staff's inattention to the issue contributed.

 

But that's a far cry from saying that the franchise has been set back and is in a downward spiral with Rex in charge. I'm not going to sway your opinion that Rex is a fraud, despite consistent top ten defences with two different franchises over a decade. And that Rex doesn't have the capacity to rebuild his players into a top unit next year, as the signs towards the end of the year point.

 

To me it all boils down to getting rid of a talented cancer in the locker room who also played a major role in the players not buying into the system. I don't see how Mario was going to be kept past this year, especially with Hughes & Dareus signings, and the need to resign the '16 free agents. It's no surprise that an emotionally unstable superstar went bonkers when he realized that his role was changing in a contract year. This year was the golden year for that defensive line.

 

But let's play pretend and see where would the franchise be if Schwartz's system remained. How long could you keep that foursome together?

 

Which is precisely why as an owner, Pegula would prefer a Ryan system than a Schwartz system. Schwartz has needed superstars to be at the top, while Ryan needed a few great players, but could backfill a lot of roles with cheap veterans. That's why with Dareus & Hughes locked up for the long term, Ryan can keep adding a Calvin Pace at vet minimum every year. Same with the LB. Find your David Harris (2nd round, mind you) and you're set for a while.

[JohnC]

 

 

 

His last four seasons in NY were mired by a pathetically bad offense, and I'm sure you didn't miss the NY media musing about how Woody went out and underwrote a roster that Rex was bitching about for four years. But that's neither here nor there, because it has nothing to do with the Bills going forward.

 

Rex Ryan is an accomplished showman (huckster) who trumpets his role in his team's successes while attributing blame to others for his team's failures. Don't believe the Rex deflection of responsibility that the team assembled wasn't his team. The owner had little to do with the roster other than being blamed by the HC he supported.

 

Let's not also forget that Rex Ryan was a HC in NY. He wasn't merely the coach of the defense. If there were limitations to the offense then he as the boss on the field had a significant role in assembling talent on both sides of the ball. Again, it needs to be emphasized that Rex was the HC with all the encompassing responsibilities associated with that boss/leadership role. He had the authority to hire and fire his coaching staff and he had a major say in the acquisition of free agents and input on draft selections. The net result is that overall he had a losing record in NY and left the team in shambles.

 

 

 

I was among the people surprised at how long it took for the players to get the hang of the defense, and clearly Rex and his staff's inattention to the issue contributed.

 

That is an astute observation. Rex was slow to respond to an obvious problem. If you can't see the elephant in the room you are either blind or stupidly stubborn.

 

 

 

 

 

But that's a far cry from saying that the franchise has been set back and is in a downward spiral with Rex in charge. I'm not going to sway your opinion that Rex is a fraud, despite consistent top ten defences with two different franchises over a decade. And that Rex doesn't have the capacity to rebuild his players into a top unit next year, as the signs towards the end of the year point.

 

I respectfully disagree with your assessment. The problem isn't that he is going to cause a downward spiral (your words); the problem is that the team is going to continue to be mired in the muck of mediocrity because he is a mediocre HC. The system is designed for parity. He isn't good enough of a coach to advance the team faster than other teams are advancing. It isn't only about getting better. It is about getting better compared to the opposition. Wretched mediocrity in coaching simply isn't good enough. I challenge you to compare the boisterous Rex to the coaches who are in the playoffs this year. Where does he stand in that grouping?

 

 

 

To me it all boils down to getting rid of a talented cancer in the locker room who also played a major role in the players not buying into the system. I don't see how Mario was going to be kept past this year, especially with Hughes & Dareus signings, and the need to resign the '16 free agents. It's no surprise that an emotionally unstable superstar went bonkers when he realized that his role was changing in a contract year. This year was the golden year for that defensive line.

 

Ask yourself if Bruce Smith was handled the same way as Mario was how do you think he would have responded? There is no doubt that Mario is a self-centered athlete. What's surprising about that? It isn't unusual that that Diva attitude prevalently exists in the high stakes environment of professional sports. However you want to characterize Mario as a person and his psychological and emotional state lets not forget that this odious character was a dynamic player the previous year. What changed? Obvious answer.

 

 

 

But let's play pretend and see where would the franchise be if Schwartz's system remained. How long could you keep that foursome together?

 

You coach who you have. Schwartz excelled in taking the players he had and maximized their assets and minimized their liabilities. Rex was wedded to a scheme that did the opposite. It isn't about exhibiting one's brilliance---it's about using common sense. Coaching 101. One thing that Schwartz was adept at was rotating his linemen.

 

 

 

Which is precisely why as an owner, Pegula would prefer a Ryan system than a Schwartz system. Schwartz has needed superstars to be at the top, while Ryan needed a few great players, but could backfill a lot of roles with cheap veterans. That's why with Dareus & Hughes locked up for the long term, Ryan can keep adding a Calvin Pace at vet minimum every year. Same with the LB. Find your David Harris (2nd round, mind you) and you're set for a while.

 

You are over-analyzing and over-rationalizing the situation. I can assure you that Pegula doesn't prefer a team that lacks discipline, intelligence, maturity and under-achievement. Those are the characteristics of a Rex Ryan coached team. It happened in his stint in NY and it was very apparent in his first year in western NY.

 

I readily admit that I am not the smartest person in the room. But one thing I know for sure based on experience is that keeping an incompetent fool on a job longer than need be doesn't resolve problems. It only gives more time for the faker to cause more damage. Trust me on this.

[JohnC]

IMO Rex has this year to get it figured out.

 

If the team is mediocre again, they will get rid of him along with Whaley..... While Vic took a ton of criticism for that report I think it will hold true if they dissappoint again next year.

 

At least I hope.

 

And you're thoughts on Mario is exactly how I feel. If we had a coach here who utilized Mario to his talents I think Mario would remain happy enough to the point where he would have accepted a restructure.

I made this point before so I apologize at the repetition. Let's not forget that the organization went out and hired an experienced HC . That was their intention for obvious reasons. They wanted to hit the ground running with an experienced coach who didn't have much of a learning curve to contend with. The owners, and most notably the GM, believed that they had a playoff (wild card) roster that was ready to break the no playoff barrier.

 

My basic contention in all my scathing commentaries about Rex is that the Rex who coached this year is the same Rex that we hired. We got what we bought. That is why I am so discouraged and infuriated over.

[BrooklynBills]

I'm not in a research mood currently but I'd venture that per drive or per play or some similar metric would sway the raw points stat. I recall a lot of his volume stats being good in efficiency due to facing a huge number of snaps against the defense. Could be wrong as I'm just going on memory

In Football Outsiders DVOA rankings, Pettine's D ranked higher than Schwartz's D, mainly I think because the Bills offense was a total tire fire under Marrone in year 1.

[3rdand12]

People also use misleading stats about how many times our Linemen actually dropped back into coverage.

 

In addition to more drop backs, players were often just standing around defending an edge or a zone, rather than showing any aggression.

 

We can pretend that he isn't, but the bottom line is that Ryan is a bad football coach and was a huge mistake. And, if his contract was not guaranteed he would be fired. Pegula IS rich, but he owes this buffoon approx. 22 million dollars whether he takes the field or not.

 

I hope that Whaley is smart enough to try to hire Pettine, but I suppose this too is a reach.

I do not know you, but as always i wish to be respectful.

May i suggest you give Rex another year ?

 

and I think you are wrong about him being fired. It is a team game . That includes FO and Coaches along with Players.

Consider? This might a more cohesive structure, or unit than we have seen in some time?

As Whaley said, " it's a first year together top to bottom " ( roughly : )

 

Let it ride.

 

just a note for Bill in NYC in regard to Whaley.

 

Workingmans Dead tells us " Gotta get down , gotta get down. gotta get down to the miiine "

I considered dire wolf of course

 

Bills are gonna be just fine. book it, lock it and all that.

[GG]

 

 

His last four seasons in NY were mired by a pathetically bad offense, and I'm sure you didn't miss the NY media musing about how Woody went out and underwrote a roster that Rex was bitching about for four years. But that's neither here nor there, because it has nothing to do with the Bills going forward.

Rex Ryan is an accomplished showman (huckster) who trumpets his role in his team's successes while attributing blame to others for his team's failures. Don't believe the Rex deflection of responsibility that the team assembled wasn't his team. The owner had little to do with the roster other than being blamed by the HC he supported.

 

Let's not also forget that Rex Ryan was a HC in NY. He wasn't merely the coach of the defense. If there were limitations to the offense then he as the boss on the field had a significant role in assembling talent on both sides of the ball. Again, it needs to be emphasized that Rex was the HC with all the encompassing responsibilities associated with that boss/leadership role. He had the authority to hire and fire his coaching staff and he had a major say in the acquisition of free agents and input on draft selections. The net result is that overall he had a losing record in NY and left the team in shambles.

 

I was among the people surprised at how long it took for the players to get the hang of the defense, and clearly Rex and his staff's inattention to the issue contributed.

That is an astute observation. Rex was slow to respond to an obvious problem. If you can't see the elephant in the room you are either blind or stupidly stubborn.

 

 

 

But that's a far cry from saying that the franchise has been set back and is in a downward spiral with Rex in charge. I'm not going to sway your opinion that Rex is a fraud, despite consistent top ten defences with two different franchises over a decade. And that Rex doesn't have the capacity to rebuild his players into a top unit next year, as the signs towards the end of the year point.

I respectfully disagree with your assessment. The problem isn't that he is going to cause a downward spiral (your words); the problem is that the team is going to continue to be mired in the muck of mediocrity because he is a mediocre HC. The system is designed for parity. He isn't good enough of a coach to advance the team faster than other teams are advancing. It isn't only about getting better. It is about getting better compared to the opposition. Wretched mediocrity in coaching simply isn't good enough. I challenge you to compare the boisterous Rex to the coaches who are in the playoffs this year. Where does he stand in that grouping?

 

To me it all boils down to getting rid of a talented cancer in the locker room who also played a major role in the players not buying into the system. I don't see how Mario was going to be kept past this year, especially with Hughes & Dareus signings, and the need to resign the '16 free agents. It's no surprise that an emotionally unstable superstar went bonkers when he realized that his role was changing in a contract year. This year was the golden year for that defensive line.

Ask yourself if Bruce Smith was handled the same way as Mario was how do you think he would have responded? There is no doubt that Mario is a self-centered athlete. What's surprising about that? It isn't unusual that that Diva attitude prevalently exists in the high stakes environment of professional sports. However you want to characterize Mario as a person and his psychological and emotional state lets not forget that this odious character was a dynamic player the previous year. What changed? Obvious answer.

 

But let's play pretend and see where would the franchise be if Schwartz's system remained. How long could you keep that foursome together?

You coach who you have. Schwartz excelled in taking the players he had and maximized their assets and minimized their liabilities. Rex was wedded to a scheme that did the opposite. It isn't about exhibiting one's brilliance---it's about using common sense. Coaching 101. One thing that Schwartz was adept at was rotating his linemen.

 

Which is precisely why as an owner, Pegula would prefer a Ryan system than a Schwartz system. Schwartz has needed superstars to be at the top, while Ryan needed a few great players, but could backfill a lot of roles with cheap veterans. That's why with Dareus & Hughes locked up for the long term, Ryan can keep adding a Calvin Pace at vet minimum every year. Same with the LB. Find your David Harris (2nd round, mind you) and you're set for a while.

You are over-analyzing and over-rationalizing the situation. I can assure you that Pegula doesn't prefer a team that lacks discipline, intelligence, maturity and under-achievement. Those are the characteristics of a Rex Ryan coached team. It happened in his stint in NY and it was very apparent in his first year in western NY.

 

I readily admit that I am not the smartest person in the room. But one thing I know for sure based on experience is that keeping an incompetent fool on a job longer than need be doesn't resolve problems. It only gives more time for the faker to cause more damage. Trust me on this.

I get it you don't like Rex. But that doesn't mean you have to make stuff up or diminish the success he's had with his teams. Don't forget he went 8-8 vs Marrone's 6-10 with a worse roster.

[Nihilarian]

How does anyone justify dropping 345 lb DTs and 310 lb DEs into pass coverage? Even if they all got the scheme down it isnt effective in todays NFL. Next year will tell all for each and everyone of us who has gone back and forth over the past weeks.

To add to this simply go back to the Chiefs game in which Ryan had Marcell Dareus drop into pass coverage several times and on two of those occasions the Chiefs QB Alex Smith threw two TD's.

 

 

 

Ineptitude is very difficult to hide in the NFL and I have my doubts that even if Ryan had better linebackers, safeties, cornerbacks with no injuries it still would have been difficult for his defense to stop anyone with so little actual blitzing the team did this year. it looked to me like many teams kept six in to block and the Bills mostly only sent four...sometimes three. It was almost like Ryan was determined to show he was a better DC than Schwartz who only blitzed about 20% of the time in 2014 and Ryan blitzed much less than that. To average it out Ryan blitzed only about 10% of the time most of the year in 2015.

[JohnC]

I get it you don't like Rex. But that doesn't mean you have to make stuff up or diminish the success he's had with his teams. Don't forget he went 8-8 vs Marrone's 6-10 with a worse roster.

Marrone went 9-7 in his second and last year with the team (some would say it was really 8-8 due to the Pats sitting players in their last game.) Marrone did more with less talent compared to Rex doing less with more talent with their respective Bills' rosters. Rex had a losing record with the Jets. That is a fact.

[Augie]

I do not know you, but as always i wish to be respectful.

May i suggest you give Rex another year ?

 

and I think you are wrong about him being fired. It is a team game . That includes FO and Coaches along with Players.

Consider? This might a more cohesive structure, or unit than we have seen in some time?

As Whaley said, " it's a first year together top to bottom " ( roughly : )

 

Let it ride.

 

just a note for Bill in NYC in regard to Whaley.

 

Workingmans Dead tells us " Gotta get down , gotta get down. gotta get down to the miiine "

I considered dire wolf of course

 

Bills are gonna be just fine. book it, lock it and all that.

Well done. While I suspect Rex may continue to suck, I think making the change every year will never get you where you want to go. (See Browns) This is a turnaround for me, but I have to trust the Pegula's. They are looking long term. I'm just pissed at the underperforming, over promising, look-at-me blowhard. Hoping they can figure it out and I'm wrong.

Marrone went 9-7 in his second and last year with the team (some would say it was really 8-8 due to the Pats sitting players in their last game.) Marrone did more with less talent compared to Rex doing less with more talent with their respective Bills' rosters. Rex had a losing record with the Jets. That is a fact.

 

I'd love to disagree, but.... Ugh. Moron had a strong DC, and Rex (the defensive genius) had a better OC. It's a topsy turvey world we live in.

[GG]

Marrone went 9-7 in his second and last year with the team (some would say it was really 8-8 due to the Pats sitting players in their last game.) Marrone did more with less talent compared to Rex doing less with more talent with their respective Bills' rosters. Rex had a losing record with the Jets. That is a fact.

 

Jets had one of the worst offenses in the league last year and the worst secondary. But I'm sure that won't get in your way.

[Nihilarian]

I get it you don't like Rex. But that doesn't mean you have to make stuff up or diminish the success he's had with his teams. Don't forget he went 8-8 vs Marrone's 6-10 with a worse roster.

What? Are you saying the 2013 roster was better than the 2015 roster? I strongly disagree with that.

 

That 6-10 first season for Marrone in 2013 was the result of no QB coach with basically three rookie QB's attempting to learn their trade while being coached by an absolute fool for an OC in Nate Hackett. This with one of the very worst offensive lines in the game...again, with three rookie QB's

 

 

Rex Ryan inherited a 9-7 Jets team in 2009 with multiple all pro players on the offensive line and on the defense. Defensive players Derrell Revis, Shaun Ellis, Calvin Pace, David Harris already on the team when he got there. The team drafted a rookie QB and ran the ball far more than they passed it those first two years. Rex Ryan won those first two years by playing ball control offense with a strong run game and playing great defense.

 

The Jets offense in 2009 393 passing attempts vs 607 rushing attempts. wow! RB Thomas Jones 1402 yards rushing, 14 TD's.

The Jets offense in 2010 525 passing attempts vs 534 rushing attempts with LaDainian Tomlinson as the RB

 

Then in 2011 the Jets asked QB Mark Sanchez to step up his game and throw a lot more and the result wasn't very good.

 

2009- 9-7 AFC Championship game as a WC

2010- 11-5 AFC Championship game as a WC

Rex Ryan's last four seasons with the NY Jets.

2011- 8-8

2012- 6-10

2013- 8-8

2014-4-12

 

2015- 8-8 Gee, look familiar?

 

I attribute Ryan's first two seasons with the Jets much the same way Dick Jauron got lucky his one season and went 13-3, only Ryan was able to do it twice. I don't hate Rex Ryan simply because he is Rex Ryan. I can't stand him for what he did to the defense this year. Just the same way I liked Jim Schwartz for what he was able to do with the Bills defense what George Edwards, Dave Wannstedt, and even Mike Pettine were unable to do.

 

The sad fact is Rex Ryan is responsible for what happens on the field as a head coach on both sides of the ball. To cry that his GM tried to get him fired by not getting him the players he needed on defense was ridiculous. The team had three different offensive coordinators in his six years at the helm and a multitude of QB's in which the team failed big time to develop any of them or get any of them to win past the 2010 season. Both the offense regressed and the defense regressed under Ryan.

 

Unlike Pete Carroll who could develop a 5th round pick into an all pro player. Rex Ryan needs the players to already be on the roster and not just any old superstar players either. He needs players that fit his scheme or his scheme won't work.

 

Sadly we Bills fans gotta buy into 2016 Buffalo Bills because we have no choice and the new owner doesn't have the courage of his convictions to realize he made a mistake with his first hire

[GG]

Would help if you can follow a topic. Rex was 8-8 with the Jets in 2013 with a worse roster than the Saint had in Buffalo.

[stinky finger]

So you can't learn the playbook the for the rest of the 17 weeks of the season?

No accountability.

 

That's squarely on Rex.

[maddenboy]

 

 

 

 

I was among the people surprised at how long it took for the players to get the hang of the defense, and clearly Rex and his staff's inattention to the issue contributed.

 

That is an astute observation. Rex was slow to respond to an obvious problem. If you can't see the elephant in the room you are either blind or stupidly stubborn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or, you ARE the elephant.

 

[BrooklynBills]

What? Are you saying the 2013 roster was better than the 2015 roster? I strongly disagree with that.

 

That 6-10 first season for Marrone in 2013 was the result of no QB coach with basically three rookie QB's attempting to learn their trade while being coached by an absolute fool for an OC in Nate Hackett. This with one of the very worst offensive lines in the game...again, with three rookie QB's

 

 

Rex Ryan inherited a 9-7 Jets team in 2009 with multiple all pro players on the offensive line and on the defense. Defensive players Derrell Revis, Shaun Ellis, Calvin Pace, David Harris already on the team when he got there. The team drafted a rookie QB and ran the ball far more than they passed it those first two years. Rex Ryan won those first two years by playing ball control offense with a strong run game and playing great defense.

 

The Jets offense in 2009 393 passing attempts vs 607 rushing attempts. wow! RB Thomas Jones 1402 yards rushing, 14 TD's.

The Jets offense in 2010 525 passing attempts vs 534 rushing attempts with LaDainian Tomlinson as the RB

 

Then in 2011 the Jets asked QB Mark Sanchez to step up his game and throw a lot more and the result wasn't very good.

 

2009- 9-7 AFC Championship game as a WC

2010- 11-5 AFC Championship game as a WC

Rex Ryan's last four seasons with the NY Jets.

2011- 8-8

2012- 6-10

2013- 8-8

2014-4-12

 

2015- 8-8 Gee, look familiar?

 

I attribute Ryan's first two seasons with the Jets much the same way Dick Jauron got lucky his one season and went 13-3, only Ryan was able to do it twice. I don't hate Rex Ryan simply because he is Rex Ryan. I can't stand him for what he did to the defense this year. Just the same way I liked Jim Schwartz for what he was able to do with the Bills defense what George Edwards, Dave Wannstedt, and even Mike Pettine were unable to do.

 

The sad fact is Rex Ryan is responsible for what happens on the field as a head coach on both sides of the ball. To cry that his GM tried to get him fired by not getting him the players he needed on defense was ridiculous. The team had three different offensive coordinators in his six years at the helm and a multitude of QB's in which the team failed big time to develop any of them or get any of them to win past the 2010 season. Both the offense regressed and the defense regressed under Ryan.

 

Unlike Pete Carroll who could develop a 5th round pick into an all pro player. Rex Ryan needs the players to already be on the roster and not just any old superstar players either. He needs players that fit his scheme or his scheme won't work.

 

Sadly we Bills fans gotta buy into 2016 Buffalo Bills because we have no choice and the new owner doesn't have the courage of his convictions to realize he made a mistake with his first hire

 

It took Carroll a year to get his defense going also. And he had back to back 7-9 seasons to start his tenure there. If the Bills simply wanted to keep the defense rolling, they could have easily promoted Schwartz to HC (which by all accounts he would have accepted) and brought in a new offensive staff. But they probably realized that he had a terrible record as a HC and that his defenses never had sustained success year to year. Also, hopefully they realized that their defensive model in which they invest so many resources on the defensive line was unsustainable.

 

They have to give Ryan more than one season to figure this out.

[Nihilarian]

Would help if you can follow a topic. Rex was 8-8 with the Jets in 2013 with a worse roster than the Saint had in Buffalo.

 

I disagree as the Jets had multiple all pros on their offensive line and with the defense. They still had Antonio Cromartie at CB who played all 16 games as did Calvin Pace, David Harris, Muhammad Wilkerson, and Sheldon Richardson played in 15. S Dawan Landry was from his days in Baltimore. It wasn't like that 2013 Jets team was totally devoid of talent.

 

Marrone was basically handed three rookie QB's to play behind one of the very worst lines in the league and we all know what his choice for OC was like with his "hurry up and punt offense" that season.

[Nihilarian]

 

It took Carroll a year to get his defense going also. And he had back to back 7-9 seasons to start his tenure there. If the Bills simply wanted to keep the defense rolling, they could have easily promoted Schwartz to HC (which by all accounts he would have accepted) and brought in a new offensive staff. But they probably realized that he had a terrible record as a HC and that his defenses never had sustained success year to year. Also, hopefully they realized that their defensive model in which they invest so many resources on the defensive line was unsustainable.

 

They have to give Ryan more than one season to figure this out.

Pete Carroll inherited a bad 5-11 team and in his first year as HC had his Seahawk team in the playoffs and they actually won that first WC game against the Saints.

 

My point was that some head coaches find a way to work with the GM to acquire better players and to put the players already on the roster in position to make plays. Greg Roman did that this season and Rex Ryan didn't

 

The new owners didn't have to keep Ryan after this year and made the choice to keep him as HC in hopes that the team will improve. I've seen enough of bad coaching over the years to think that he won't improve the team enough to ever take the division title away from NE!

[JohnC]

Jets had one of the worst offenses in the league last year and the worst secondary. But I'm sure that won't get in your way.

That was Rex's roster. He was with the team for six years. Need I remind you that he was the HC and responsible for the overall on-field operation. Do you deny that the HC has a major say in shaping the roster? If there was an imbalance between the offense and defense then how could he not to a major degree (not solely) be responsible for it?

 

Think about it: You are doing what battered Buffalo fans have a tendency to do. They make excuses why the Bills lose and make excuses why other teams win. You are adding a new twist to this syndrome by making excuses why our current coach lost when he was with another team. My recommendation is to simply judge on performance without the innumerable "what ifs" explanation to rationalize a poor performance. The bottom line in NY was that Rex was fired for good cause in NY.

[jester43]

I think both Rex and the players came into this season with their noses in the air. The NFL and all of us thought they would be great, and they probably got complacent. Here's to hopin this season was a big wake up and the kick in the ass they need. I do expect a big turn around next year.

i'm gonna go back and look at all 8 pages of this now, but i can't imagine it being said and more accurately/succinctly than this.

 

As far as Rex's defense - what I have heard that backs up it is complicated and takes a long time to learn, are interviews from former players who have played in it. Stuff to the effect that man, was the hardest to learn but once you did.....

 

Still, I share your feeling of queaziness. If you're a band director or a choral leader and your musical group isn't able to follow your overly complex music, you don't just put out a bad performance, you get out your pencil and simplify the score until they can perform it well. If you're a teacher, you'd be on the hot seat if your entire AP Calculus class failed the test - especially if they were all A students in previous years who scored very well on the math section of the ACT. Something was seriously broken at OBD this fall, and ultimately that's on Rex. He had the players, especially to start the season.

 

I don't even buy the "injuries" thing, because the D was horrid at times before any injuries but McKelvin, and because Schwartz heavily rotated the DL last year while maintaining quality. Injuries hurt, no doubt, but the crap show preceded the injuries.

agree with most of this...but i also think injuries really were the last straw. i don't know how many of you guys look at http://www.mangameslost.com/category/nfl/but it really does illustrate that, while we were dinged up in the secondary early last year, we were pretty lucky over all. i said this all last year and that is why i think marrone's 9-7 was such a mirage.

 

this sitye also shows we got crushed this year...so much so i'm surprised there aren';t more threads here calling for pegula to bring rusty jones out of retirement.

 

that is also why i think/hope we're better than 8-8...as long as we don't lose to many starters due to cap issues. i'm also cautiously optimistic that rex is smart enough to put his ego aside and mold things to fit the players better..

 

Mario made recent comments too about better understanding the D or simplifying it. Seems there may be something to it

goddam it your 100million dollar man should be taking the lead there. i am embarrassed i stuck up for this guy as long as i did this year. team cancer.

 

Rex IS the kind of coach you can work collaboratively with...the last two games especially prove it....many more 4 man rushes. due to the players input. but it sounds like he asked for it all year, and Mario especially was a brat about the whole thing, rather than working WITH coaches to make the best of things.