Possible, partial explanation for why D was bad

[NoSaint]

I read today that this year's absolutely horrible defense, which it was, gave up less points than the Bills' Pettine defense that had all those sacks.

I'm not in a research mood currently but I'd venture that per drive or per play or some similar metric would sway the raw points stat. I recall a lot of his volume stats being good in efficiency due to facing a huge number of snaps against the defense. Could be wrong as I'm just going on memory

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I just saw a locker clean-out interview with Jerry Hughes. I saw it on Twitter and can't get it right now but it's on bills.com I think and someone will link it I'm sure.

 

It's possible I'm reading into this but Hughes sounded to me like the players didn't put the work in in training camp to learn the playbook. I don't think he was talking about anyone in particular but just that they should have had the defense down, they had time to get it down, even before the season, and they just didn't get it down. He was a very standup guy about it.

 

I was watching a Sabres game this year against the Columbus Blue Jackets. They were coming off an season where they ended on a 12-0-1 win streak but didn't make the playoffs. This year everyone everywhere thought they were going to be one of the better teams in the league and they have been terrible. The announcers were interviewing a guy who was there at the beginning of the season and he said it was immediately clear to him that these guys weren't prepared. They came into the season positive they were going to be great but didn't put the work in, didn't work their ass off in training camp, and just assumed they would start winning because of the way they played together at the end of last year.

 

I think that's very possible what happened to the Bills defense.

 

They just assumed they would be great because they had been great in 2014 and now had Rex. And they knew they knew how to play defense. But they may not have put the hours and work in to learn the new defense the way they should have.

 

So maybe it wasn't all Rex's scheme and the blame goes half on the players.

 

That said, I still think that Rex had an absolutely horrible year with his game plans and strategy and trying to be too cute. So even if it was more the players fault than we thought it wasn't less his fault for not pressuring, pressing, and doing what he does best in 14 of the 16 games.

Good then there is no fugging excuse next season. Can't wait to see the number 1 defense in all the universe take the field. Should be EPIC.

Boy I can't believe we are in the "Wait Till Next Year" mode already.

After all it is playoff time.

Edited January 7, 2016 by over 20 years of fanhood

[OhDozeBills]

Isn't it the coaches responsibility to make sure his players are ready and get the most out of them? Sorry, that's what a good coach does! If the players don't want to put the time in and prepare like they should, then you get players that will. Plain and simple. Giving Rex another year is the right move and hopefully he learns from the mistakes of this year, but if the defense doesn't improve next year (and they miss playoffs again) then I think it's time to move on.

 

With that said, if the offense continues to improve, but the defense stays the same...make Roman head coach which would keep the offensive scheme in place.

[TheFunPolice]

What is more likely:

 

1) Rex Ryan, a guy known all around the NFL as a defensive mastermind, suddenly forgot how to coach defense.

2) His (perhaps overly) complicated system takes a long time to learn AND the Bills has injuries at key positions and a major defensive player who didn't want to buy in.

[Malazan]

I was watching a Sabres game this year against the Columbus Blue Jackets. They were coming off an season where they ended on a 12-0-1 win streak but didn't make the playoffs. This year everyone everywhere thought they were going to be one of the better teams in the league and they have been terrible.

 

What? No one thought this anywhere. Predictions had them at best, had them maybe getting into the 3-4 teams that are out of the playoffs, but not the bottom of the pack.

[GG]

 

What? No one thought this anywhere. Predictions had them at best, had them maybe getting into the 3-4 teams that are out of the playoffs, but not the bottom of the pack.

 

Sure about that? Predicted to be solidly in the playoff race. Here and here

[Nihilarian]

 

Interestingly, when we got a bazillion sacks under Pettine in 2013, we were 28th in the league in rushing D and 20th in the league in points allowed.

 

Sacks matter, pressure matters, but they aren't the only thing that matters. You got to stop the other team from scoring points, and if you can't stop their rush...well then.

Hey, I agree that although sacks are very important they are only one part of building a championship defense. But with literally no pressure on the opposing QB it usually means the defense will have a difficult time stopping the offense and getting them off the field. This means a great deal to a run heavy team like the Bills were because when they get the ball they eat up a lot of clock running it and the more they run it the less the other team has the ball. Run heavy teams need more chances with the ball.

 

I can remember back to 2010 when Buddy Nix was pulling out his hair because every QB they faced looked like an all pro and this was especially frustrating watching rookie QB's look like that. We all know what a no pass rush team looks like and it isn't pretty. I think this year that Rex Ryan proved that no matter how good the secondary is you can't stop anyone by just playing coverage schemes. Now go back to rewatch a lot of games only to see the Bills DB's 10-15 yards off the line like they are protecting a lead from the start of the game.

 

It's a tribute to the Bills players that they were 19th against the pass with literally no pass rush almost all year. 21 sacks out of 1,017 with 602 pass attempts at 3.4 percent which is so pathetic Ryan should be embarrassed.

 

What's rather alarming to me is that so many fans here are taking this lack of sacks from the sack master himself so nonchalantly like it doesn't matter at all. I can only think that because the Bills were #1 & #2 the previous years and they didn't win that many games, so it becomes less significant.

 

 

What so many fans fail to realize is that in 2013 with Nate Hackett running his "hurry up and punt" offense with 3 rookie QB's at the helm it meant that his defense was ALWAYS on the field very game. The Bills were 28th in time of possession in 2013. So, even though the Bills had 57 sacks under Pettine his defenses were getting worn out game after game because the offense couldn't sustain long drives or even stay on the field very long.

 

Then in 2014 with Kyle Orton at QB with the Bills throwing it 35 to 40+ times a game the offense was still 21st in time of possession on offense which meant the defense was out on the field much more than they should have been to stay effective.

 

This season the Buffalo Bills were the #1 rushing offense and #2 in rushing attempts and managed that with a 4.8 YPC avg and they were 11th in time of possession. This while being 13th in total offense and 28th in passing offense. Had the Bills blitzed like Rex Ryan did in his first two years with the NY Jets at 50% of the drop backs. I have to think this year's Bills team with less penalties, more discipline, more sacks could have easily won more games. This year for the Bills should have been very reminiscent of the 2009 NY Jets IMO.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Nihilarian

[Manther]

If true, the lack of leadership, by both the coaches and the players was in full effect here. Nobody held the players accountable it seems. If only there were a few guys on D who held their teammates accountable for not knowing the D as well as they should.

Agreed

Does this mean i need to eat healthy and exercise still? I hate this crap. stupid salads and granola.

 

Go Bills !

Lmao

[Manther]

I want a no nonsense, disciplined Dcordinator. He can be bad cop, to Rex's good cop. But good God almighty, we need some discipline on defense!

Yep and the players need to help the bad cop too. Bad cops can ALSO have respect while holding players accountable.

 

I believe Pepper Johnson did both. Just a hunch, but, feel strongly about it.

[Kelly the Dog]

Then in 2014 with Kyle Orton at QB with the Bills throwing it 35 to 40+ times a game the offense was still 21st in time of possession on offense which meant the defense was out on the field much more than they should have been to stay effective.

 

This season the Buffalo Bills were the #1 rushing offense and #2 in rushing attempts and managed that with a 4.8 YPC avg and they were 11th in time of possession. This while being 13th in total offense and 28th in passing offense. Had the Bills blitzed like Rex Ryan did in his first two years with the NY Jets at 50% of the drop backs. I have to think this year's Bills team with less penalties, more discipline, more sacks could have easily won more games. This year for the Bills should have been very reminiscent of the 2009 NY Jets IMO.

Forget the sacks. Simply with less penalties and more discipline (meaning just doing your job and not freelancing or having a brainfreeze and not covering who you were supposed to), we would have won more games. Giants. Jags come to mind instantly. Probably more.

[Bill from NYC]

Come on, man-- buck up!! If you have at least 10 good years left, I am confident that we will sneak in the playoffs at some point in the next decade.

:)

 

You have been on one comedic roll as of late!

I'd forgotten Bryce. Yeah, it was sad - switched teams and was never heard from.

 

Scheme does matter.

He suffered a torn groin muscle, didn't he?

[The Plunge]

I read today that this year's absolutely horrible defense, which it was, gave up less points than the Bills' Pettine defense that had all those sacks.

I think Pettine's D was very overrated.

 

Go look at how many games we held opponents to 20 points or less. The answer is TWO. Twice, in 16 games, we gave up less than 20 points. That D was not as good as we remember it. Not even close. It just looked good because it was an improvement over the previous year in a number of ways (sacks, most importantly).

[3rdand12]

I think Pettine's D was very overrated.

 

Go look at how many games we held opponents to 20 points or less. The answer is TWO. Twice, in 16 games, we gave up less than 20 points. That D was not as good as we remember it. Not even close. It just looked good because it was an improvement over the previous year in a number of ways (sacks, most importantly).

Good point about points !

Yep and the players need to help the bad cop too. Bad cops can ALSO have respect while holding players accountable.

 

I believe Pepper Johnson did both. Just a hunch, but, feel strongly about it.

I honestly have thought more than once this season about Pepper.

He and Henderson were alright in my book.

Hope some tweaking goes on on the defensive Coaching table for the Bills.

[dave mcbride]

I'm not in a research mood currently but I'd venture that per drive or per play or some similar metric would sway the raw points stat. I recall a lot of his volume stats being good in efficiency due to facing a huge number of snaps against the defense. Could be wrong as I'm just going on memory

12th in yards and 14th in points per drive this year; 2nd in yards and 12th in points per drive in 2013. The Bills D ranked 30th in opponents' average drive start in the league in 2013 (due to a bad Bills offense/ST)--that is, the worse your ranking, the closer the opponent was to the goal when they assumed control of the ball. This year, they ranked 21st.

[NoSaint]

12th in yards and 14th in points per drive this year; 2nd in yards and 12th in points per drive in 2013. The Bills D ranked 30th in opponents' average drive start in the league in 2013 (due to a bad Bills offense/ST)--that is, the worse your ranking, the closer the opponent was to the goal when they assumed control of the ball. This year, they ranked 21st.

I didn't even think of the drive start but now that you mention it remember discussing that hand in hand with the other issue. On the surface pettines d was easy to blow off, but when you dig it came across much more impressively.

[Malazan]

 

Sure about that? Predicted to be solidly in the playoff race. Here and here

 

Did you even read your link? The Hockey News has them 7th in the division which is not anywhere near a playoff spot. Hockeywriters has them 12th in the east...also...not a playoff spot.

[BADOLBILZ]

I didn't even think of the drive start but now that you mention it remember discussing that hand in hand with the other issue. On the surface pettines d was easy to blow off, but when you dig it came across much more impressively.

 

 

I think people forget the true dogged nature of Pettine's D that season as well.

 

Those guys just overwhelmed good opponents like Baltimore, Carolina and KC with pass rush at home.

 

That D would have smacked the sh*t out of Andy Dalton this year.......but instead we got treated to an embarrassing blowout where the guy went basically untouched and joked about it after the game.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Did you even read your link? The Hockey News has them 7th in the division which is not anywhere near a playoff spot. Hockeywriters has them 12th in the east...also...not a playoff spot.

This is what they said...

6) Columbus Blue Jackets

ANALYSIS: This is the Metro team to really watch out for. Columbus could, and really should, be this year’s Colorado or Calgary. The Blue Jackets were ravaged by injuries this past season but showed a sign of things to come once they got healthy. Staying healthy, or healthier, will be of the utmost importance, especially for goaltender Sergei Bobrovsky and young defenceman Ryan Murray. The offence is going to be even more dangerous with Saad coming over from Chicago. If he clicks with Ryan Johansen, they could have a Benn-Seguin type breakout season together and lead the Blue Jackets to a playoff berth. I’m not sure if it’s mathematically possible for five teams from the same division to finish among the top six in a conference, but besides Tampa Bay, these are the five best rosters in order in my opinion.

[JohnC]

Kyle said he wasn't able to do more of that when he was hurt and unable to be there. AW was a leader also that wasn't there. Gilmore is an elite player but he is not a vocal guy. Spikes was a good leader last year. Losing those three guys definitely created a void in leadership on the player front.

Mario Williams clearly quit on the team. It was blatantly obvious by his lackluster effort and horrible body language. Even a number of teammates directly and indirectly pointed out his lack of effort and disinterest. The HC kept him on the field. That was a demonstration of a lack of leadership and control by the HC. The way to jolt a headstrong player who is sabotaging the team is to take that player off the field, and if necessary not dress him for games until he shows that he cares. If the HC would have acted appropriately and showed some spine to this unprofessional and malcontent player a message would have been sent not only to the player in question but to the rest of the team that players would not only be held accountable for their play but there also would be consequences for their bad play and disruptive behavior.

 

How do you think a Belichick or a Tomlin or a Bruce Arians would have handled a Mario situation compared to the manner in which RR handled it? If you put up with shiiiit you will continue to get shiiiiit!

[GG]

 

Did you even read your link? The Hockey News has them 7th in the division which is not anywhere near a playoff spot. Hockeywriters has them 12th in the east...also...not a playoff spot.

 

Are you sure you read the link? Both places have them in 6th & 7th place in the conference, not the division.