D&C takes on the Buffalo News

[Marv's Neighbor]

It makes me miss the Courier Express. Maybe the Courier could come back as an on-line only edition???

[eball]

It makes me miss the Courier Express. Maybe the Courier could come back as an on-line only edition???

 

Schitt, I'd take the Amherst Bee.

[Kelly the Dog]

The problem with this whole story is the telephone game. Vic said this morning that the come to Jesus meeting and ultimatum was midweek after the Washington game and there was "talk around the building" that next year was it or Terry was going to make changes. Only Pegulas and Rex and Whaley were in the meeting. From any of those people it could have come out in different semantics we need to get it done next year. But whether or not there was a clear ultimatum and if you are not in playoffs you are gone could be anyone's interpretation of what words were actually said in that meeting.

 

Everyone knows that if they are not better next year major changes will be made. That's a given.

 

My take on it, which like everyone's is just conjecture, is that the wording of Vic's report, and his source, were stronger than the actual words. It wasn't a flat ultimatum like playoffs or you're fired. And the Bills took umbrage with that and then leaked the extension story.

[Mango]

The real shame is that national media (NFL.com, SI.com, and CBS Sports.com) all picked up Vic's BS as if it were legitimate. It's not the first time they have been burned by Vic this season. He has really slipped since his return to TBN.

 

 

Vic Carucci is completely out of touch. He was great for us in the 90's but time to move on.

 

I have Sirius and listen to NFL radio a ton. Since he has been out of the Buffalo market for so long, people hadn't realized that he has been wrong about most things football for sometime now. Literally the past few years, if he claimed left, the story went right. He has been flat out bad for a long time now. The nice thing is, he doesn't really ruffle any feathers and has way more professionalism than those hacks Sully or Bucky.

[26CornerBlitz]

I have Sirius and listen to NFL radio a ton. Since he has been out of the Buffalo market for so long, people hadn't realized that he has been wrong about most things football for sometime now. Literally the past few years, if he claimed left, the story went right. He has been flat out bad for a long time now. The nice thing is, he doesn't really ruffle any feathers and has way more professionalism than those hacks Sully or Bucky.

 

Thanks for your insight.

[jester43]

My point (which you fail to comprehend due to the tight tinfoil hat on your head) is that you and Sully/Carucci rely on moon phases, jetstreams and a bottle of chicken bones to come up with opinions. I suppose conjecture now trumps actual facts.

what are these "actual facts?" My point (again) is that we don't know what they are.

 

You guys who talk about sportswriter a like they all have a hidden agenda are the conspiracy theorists.

 

You want facts? Here's one: nothing that has happened necessarily disproves what Carrucci wrote.

[John from Riverside]

I am waiting for one of our local media type posters to stop by and weigh in......

[BillsVet]

Not anymore. Gannett split its print and broadcast properties into two separate companies last year. But there are still professional relationships between the two sides.

 

Good to know. I saw Maiorana and Benigni covering the team on WGRZ, which was something they've started in the past 2 years or so.

 

Strange situation.

[Mike in Horseheads]

 

Good to know. I saw Maiorana and Benigni covering the team on WGRZ, which was something they've started in the past 2 years or so.

 

Strange situation.

The Elmira Star Regret another Gannett paper uses tha same crappy format on its web page. Takes you forever to just get to a story sometimes.

[billykaykay]

 

Nonsense!

I think he was being sarcastic.

[Chandler#81]

 

 

what are these "actual facts?" My point (again) is that we don't know what they are.

You guys who talk about sportswriter a like they all have a hidden agenda are the conspiracy theorists.

You want facts? Here's one: nothing that has happened necessarily disproves what Carrucci wrote.

Thanks for clearing that up, Vic.

[Rico]

not one person here knows that carrucci made it up or was lied to. but sooooo many kneejerk reactions...and assumptions of guilt.

 

just because pegula denies it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. it also could have been that carrucci's source embellished. there's really no way to know for sure and we probably never will. it's also entirley possible that two different peoiple with knowledge of the conversation had completely different interpretations of what it meant.

 

without a transcript, who could know?

 

but boy oh boy does every little thing spark a shitstorm of squealing and bleating and finger-pointing by some of you guys. it's hilarious.

 

vic carrucci doesn't need me to speak up for him. i haven't wasted a moment this year trying to keep score about whose gossip was proven true and whose wasn't ...but it's comical that so many of you do.

 

but if carrucci does bother to write about this again, he'll probably stand by his source. i just want to know who thinks what here...

a. he made it up

b. he was "intentionally" lied to so he'd look bad (i'm sure everyone at OBD sits around cooking up plots to embarrass sportswriters...because they don't have enough to do).

c. he's so sad about not being "connected" (since, you know, the 90s are just never coming back) that he quoted a janitor or someone like that.

Nice post.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

not one person here knows that carrucci made it up or was lied to. but sooooo many kneejerk reactions...and assumptions of guilt.

 

just because pegula denies it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. it also could have been that carrucci's source embellished. there's really no way to know for sure and we probably never will. it's also entirley possible that two different peoiple with knowledge of the conversation had completely different interpretations of what it meant.

 

without a transcript, who could know?

 

but boy oh boy does every little thing spark a shitstorm of squealing and bleating and finger-pointing by some of you guys. it's hilarious.

 

vic carrucci doesn't need me to speak up for him. i haven't wasted a moment this year trying to keep score about whose gossip was proven true and whose wasn't ...but it's comical that so many of you do.

 

but if carrucci does bother to write about this again, he'll probably stand by his source. i just want to know who thinks what here...

a. he made it up

b. he was "intentionally" lied to so he'd look bad (i'm sure everyone at OBD sits around cooking up plots to embarrass sportswriters...because they don't have enough to do).

c. he's so sad about not being "connected" (since, you know, the 90s are just never coming back) that he quoted a janitor or someone like that.

 

Let's start from the basics, oh Professional Critic of Amateur Media Critics. The News media is called "News" and not "Gossip Columnists" because they're supposed to report, well, "News" and not "Gossip". It's supposed to be backed up by sources, preferably independent sources. It's supposed to have credibility and accountability (be retracted if proven false). That's the whole idea behind protecting freedom of the press and protecting members of the media from being sued for libel. It is recognized that the press has power, with power comes responsibility to behave correctly according to journalistic standards and not risk undue damage to people's reputations and businesses.

 

The unintentional humor in your post, is that by telling us you haven't wasted a moment figuring out whether "Gossip" (including Vic Carruci's reports) was proven correct, you've actually condemned Vic in stronger terms than the rest of us - you've basically come out and said he isn't writing "News", he is writing "Gossip" about whose veracity you don't care.

 

I, on the other hand, want to see credible news sources. If, in fact, Carruci's source "embellished", then Carruci is using a poor source and he needs to start caveating what he reports from that source or questioning that source more strongly and backing it up by confirmation from a 2nd source. I keep loose track on whether or not a reporter's "scoop" has been proven right or wrong because credibility is important to me. When Schefter reports Marrone as a leading candidate for HC positions and all but has him signing a contract with the Jets before the dust settles from his departure here, well, when Marrone winds up as the OL coach for the Jags it lowers his credibility.

 

You can't think how flattered I am by your interest in what us "amateur media critics" believe. I will answer by saying my belief isn't listed by you. I believe Carrucci had a source at OBD who believed the information he provided to Carruci. Whether the information that source had was embellished by said source or whether said source was given false or exaggerated information, I don't know and don't care - either way Carrucci didn't bother to confirm it with an independent source before publishing, so his credibility and that of TBN in general have fallen in my eyes. And all Carrucci's further stuff trying to reconcile his report with the report of a contract extension doesn't help his credibility because it makes little sense as any kind of sane employee management or negotiation strategy.

 

If a newspaper can't be trusted to be credible, then it is of no more value than the myriad free gossip and blog sites in which the internet abounds and it should go out of business and stop paying its "professional" reporters, because what it's selling has no value. That is my viewpoint as an "amateur media critic" ie "consumer" or "customer".

I think he was being sarcastic.

 

That was my interpretation

Edited January 6, 2016 by Hopeful

[BringBackFergy]

 

Let's start from the basics, oh Professional Critic of Amateur Media Critics. The News media is called "News" and not "Gossip Columnists" because they're supposed to report, well, "News" and not "Gossip". It's supposed to be backed up by sources, preferably independent sources. It's supposed to have credibility and accountability (be retracted if proven false). That's the whole idea behind protecting freedom of the press and protecting members of the media from being sued for libel. It is recognized that the press has power, with power comes responsibility to behave correctly according to journalistic standards and not risk undue damage to people's reputations and businesses.

 

The unintentional humor in your post, is that by telling us you haven't wasted a moment figuring out whether "Gossip" (including Vic Carruci's reports) was proven correct, you've actually condemned Vic in stronger terms than the rest of us - you've basically come out and said he isn't writing "News", he is writing "Gossip" about whose veracity you don't care.

 

I, on the other hand, want to see credible news sources. If, in fact, Carruci's source "embellished", then Carruci is using a poor source and he needs to start caveating what he reports from that source or questioning that source more strongly and backing it up by confirmation from a 2nd source. I keep loose track on whether or not a reporter's "scoop" has been proven right or wrong because credibility is important to me. When Schefter reports Marrone as a leading candidate for HC positions and all but has him signing a contract with the Jets before the dust settles from his departure here, well, when Marrone winds up as the OL coach for the Jags it lowers his credibility.

 

You can't think how flattered I am by your interest in what us "amateur media critics" believe. I will answer by saying my belief isn't listed by you. I believe Carrucci had a source at OBD who believed the information he provided to Carruci. Whether the information that source had was embellished by said source or whether said source was given false or exaggerated information, I don't know and don't care - either way Carrucci didn't bother to confirm it with an independent source before publishing, so his credibility and that of TBN in general have fallen in my eyes. And all Carrucci's further stuff trying to reconcile his report with the report of a contract extension doesn't help his credibility because it makes little sense as any kind of sane employee management or negotiation strategy.

 

If a newspaper can't be trusted to be credible, then it is of no more value than the myriad free gossip and blog sites in which the internet abounds and it should go out of business and stop paying its "professional" reporters, because what it's selling has no value. That is my viewpoint as an "amateur media critic" ie "consumer" or "customer".

 

That was my interpretation

*slow clap* Well said.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Let's start from the basics, oh Professional Critic of Amateur Media Critics. The News media is called "News" and not "Gossip Columnists" because they're supposed to report, well, "News" and not "Gossip". It's supposed to be backed up by sources, preferably independent sources. It's supposed to have credibility and accountability (be retracted if proven false). That's the whole idea behind protecting freedom of the press and protecting members of the media from being sued for libel. It is recognized that the press has power, with power comes responsibility to behave correctly according to journalistic standards and not risk undue damage to people's reputations and businesses.

 

The unintentional humor in your post, is that by telling us you haven't wasted a moment figuring out whether "Gossip" (including Vic Carruci's reports) was proven correct, you've actually condemned Vic in stronger terms than the rest of us - you've basically come out and said he isn't writing "News", he is writing "Gossip" about whose veracity you don't care.

 

I, on the other hand, want to see credible news sources. If, in fact, Carruci's source "embellished", then Carruci is using a poor source and he needs to start caveating what he reports from that source or questioning that source more strongly and backing it up by confirmation from a 2nd source. I keep loose track on whether or not a reporter's "scoop" has been proven right or wrong because credibility is important to me. When Schefter reports Marrone as a leading candidate for HC positions and all but has him signing a contract with the Jets before the dust settles from his departure here, well, when Marrone winds up as the OL coach for the Jags it lowers his credibility.

 

You can't think how flattered I am by your interest in what us "amateur media critics" believe. I will answer by saying my belief isn't listed by you. I believe Carrucci had a source at OBD who believed the information he provided to Carruci. Whether the information that source had was embellished by said source or whether said source was given false or exaggerated information, I don't know and don't care - either way Carrucci didn't bother to confirm it with an independent source before publishing, so his credibility and that of TBN in general have fallen in my eyes. And all Carrucci's further stuff trying to reconcile his report with the report of a contract extension doesn't help his credibility because it makes little sense as any kind of sane employee management or negotiation strategy.

 

If a newspaper can't be trusted to be credible, then it is of no more value than the myriad free gossip and blog sites in which the internet abounds and it should go out of business and stop paying its "professional" reporters, because what it's selling has no value. That is my viewpoint as an "amateur media critic" ie "consumer" or "customer".

 

Bravo.

[Kelly the Dog]

I, on the other hand, want to see credible news sources. If, in fact, Carruci's source "embellished", then Carruci is using a poor source and he needs to start caveating what he reports from that source or questioning that source more strongly and backing it up by confirmation from a 2nd source. I keep loose track on whether or not a reporter's "scoop" has been proven right or wrong because credibility is important to me. When Schefter reports Marrone as a leading candidate for HC positions and all but has him signing a contract with the Jets before the dust settles from his departure here, well, when Marrone winds up as the OL coach for the Jags it lowers his credibility.

 

Things change and change quickly. That's probably a bad example because I think most every reporter covering that story believed, rightfully, that Marrone was a shoo in for that job. The only reason he didn't get it was because of all the bad news that came out about Marrone's ego and personality in the two days after he left the Bills and Woody Johnson, who was about to sign him, got cold feet. Especially when NY reporters wrote about Marrone's former coach at SU he fired. Then suddenly Marrone's name was mud and no one wanted to touch him.

 

Things also probably changed at OBD in the two weeks after the Washington loss. Not that the Jets game meant anything but the players fought hard and the team ended 8-8 instead of 6-10 and people weren't as pissed. So the language of the ultimatum concept could have shifted slightly, especially being passed around OBD which is what Vic said was happening (that there was chatter around the building of this win next year or else).

[Hapless Bills Fan]

what are these "actual facts?" My point (again) is that we don't know what they are.

 

You guys who talk about sportswriter a like they all have a hidden agenda are the conspiracy theorists.

 

You want facts? Here's one: nothing that has happened necessarily disproves what Carrucci wrote.

 

You know, the media is not supposed to be publishing stuff that "can't necessarily be disproved". They are supposed to be publishing stuff which has a high probability of being true, as confirmed by several independent sources.

 

I don't think anyone believes that Vic Carucci has a hidden agenda, for what it's worth. But some of us do think he may be careless in his choice of sources or in verifying information they provide.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Things change and change quickly. That's probably a bad example because I think most every reporter covering that story believed, rightfully, that Marrone was a shoo in for that job. The only reason he didn't get it was because of all the bad news that came out about Marrone's ego and personality in the two days after he left the Bills and Woody Johnson, who was about to sign him, got cold feet. Especially when NY reporters wrote about Marrone's former coach at SU he fired. Then suddenly Marrone's name was mud and no one wanted to touch him.

 

Things also probably changed at OBD in the two weeks after the Washington loss. Not that the Jets game meant anything but the players fought hard and the team ended 8-8 instead of 6-10 and people weren't as pissed. So the language of the ultimatum concept could have shifted slightly, especially being passed around OBD which is what Vic said was happening (that there was chatter around the building of this win next year or else).

 

Well, KtD, I respect your point but actually, I think it's a good example for the very reasons you state. I think you're right that most every reporter covering that story believed Marrone was a shoo-in. But why was it "rightfully"? What was the basis for their belief? Were there really strong signs that the Jets would hire Marrone?

 

Or were they all just echoing Schefter, and counting on his relationship with Marrone through their mutual agent to give them the straight gouge, combined with Woody Johnson's somewhat ambiguous comments that "this is pretty good news...it's been a long time since I've seen Doug and I have good memories of him"?

 

As I recall, some sources at the time were that the Jets intended to conduct a search for a GM and then give the GM input into the selection of the coach, and that is, in fact, what happened.

 

I think there is a lot of carelessness in "News" reporting these days, and it's actually short-sighted and self-defeating on the part of the media - in the pursuit of "clicks" and "views", if they shirk accountability and verification, they ultimately cheapen and devalue the product they're selling instead of differentiating themselves and adding value to their product. And I think the news reporting around Marrone's candidacy for HC vacancies a year ago is a good example of this.

[jester43]

Let's start from the basics, oh Professional Critic of Amateur Media Critics. The News media is called "News" and not "Gossip Columnists" because they're supposed to report, well, "News" and not "Gossip". It's supposed to be backed up by sources, preferably independent sources. It's supposed to have credibility and accountability (be retracted if proven false). That's the whole idea behind protecting freedom of the press and protecting members of the media from being sued for libel. It is recognized that the press has power, with power comes responsibility to behave correctly according to journalistic standards and not risk undue damage to people's reputations and businesses.

 

The unintentional humor in your post, is that by telling us you haven't wasted a moment figuring out whether "Gossip" (including Vic Carruci's reports) was proven correct, you've actually condemned Vic in stronger terms than the rest of us - you've basically come out and said he isn't writing "News", he is writing "Gossip" about whose veracity you don't care.

 

I, on the other hand, want to see credible news sources. If, in fact, Carruci's source "embellished", then Carruci is using a poor source and he needs to start caveating what he reports from that source or questioning that source more strongly and backing it up by confirmation from a 2nd source. I keep loose track on whether or not a reporter's "scoop" has been proven right or wrong because credibility is important to me. When Schefter reports Marrone as a leading candidate for HC positions and all but has him signing a contract with the Jets before the dust settles from his departure here, well, when Marrone winds up as the OL coach for the Jags it lowers his credibility.

 

You can't think how flattered I am by your interest in what us "amateur media critics" believe. I will answer by saying my belief isn't listed by you. I believe Carrucci had a source at OBD who believed the information he provided to Carruci. Whether the information that source had was embellished by said source or whether said source was given false or exaggerated information, I don't know and don't care - either way Carrucci didn't bother to confirm it with an independent source before publishing, so his credibility and that of TBN in general have fallen in my eyes. And all Carrucci's further stuff trying to reconcile his report with the report of a contract extension doesn't help his credibility because it makes little sense as any kind of sane employee management or negotiation strategy.

 

If a newspaper can't be trusted to be credible, then it is of no more value than the myriad free gossip and blog sites in which the internet abounds and it should go out of business and stop paying its "professional" reporters, because what it's selling has no value. That is my viewpoint as an "amateur media critic" ie "consumer" or "customer".

 

 

That was my interpretation

That's a great civics lesson, but (AGAIN) nothing has been "proven false" by anyone!

 

Insofar as any of this is "news" you almost have a point there. But in making it you just eliminated about 80% of sports journalism. And that doesn't even address the more obvious point...that sports is most assuredly not "news" but rather a highly addictive time-wasting form of ENTERTAINMENT(as I have proven to myself yet again today).

 

But really, that Vic Carrucci should be expected to reveal a bibliography of his sources to satisfy your vision of journalistic prudence is also hilarious. You jumped to a conclusion because you have a bias to confirm about sportswriter so or BN or Caruccii or whatever. Good for you.

 

At the end of the day all we have are two entirely plausible conflicting reports. No one knows what happened in that meeting but you are saying his report has been proven false? Ok. I'm reserving my judgment. I know that in the black and white world of adolescent girl gossip, you're not allowed to do that, but then again I guess I don't know the same "facts" as you.

 

You all can go back to your little BN-hating circle jerk now. I hope you get some sort of "release" from it.

 

Heh.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Well, KtD, I respect your point but actually, I think it's a good example for the very reasons you state. I think you're right that most every reporter covering that story believed Marrone was a shoo-in. But why was it "rightfully"? What was the basis for their belief? Were there really strong signs that the Jets would hire Marrone?

 

Or were they all just echoing Schefter, and counting on his relationship with Marrone through their mutual agent to give them the straight gouge, combined with Woody Johnson's somewhat ambiguous comments that "this is pretty good news...it's been a long time since I've seen Doug and I have good memories of him"?

 

As I recall, some sources at the time were that the Jets intended to conduct a search for a GM and then give the GM input into the selection of the coach, and that is, in fact, what happened.

 

I think there is a lot of carelessness in "News" reporting these days, and it's actually short-sighted and self-defeating on the part of the media - in the pursuit of "clicks" and "views", if they shirk accountability and verification, they ultimately cheapen and devalue the product they're selling instead of differentiating themselves and adding value to their product. And I think the news reporting around Marrone's candidacy for HC vacancies a year ago is a good example of this.

No. They weren't echoing Schefter at all from what I read, know and think. The NY beat guys are mostly good veteran reporters even if they are blowhards, and there are ten or more of them They don't need or use Schefter as a source. Woody Johnson was enamored with Marrone and wanted to hire him. That was the reason Marrone left so easily is basically he had a job lined up.