Rob's House Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) First of all, the kids from LSU aren't so bad, wouldn't you agree? And again, EJ Manuel (a Whaley blunder) was the quarterback when he made this deal. John from Hemet posts that if not for injuries, Sammy might be the best. Maybe so. And if he WAS seriously injured the Bills would be missing not one but 2 first round picks (and a 4th) and this board would be on fire calling for Whaley's job. In other words, there was an awful lot of risk in that deal. I also remind you that we have not had a playoff appearance since the trade was made. Do I blame the trade? No I don't but the results are what they are. And please, let's not forget that he offered contracts to Spiller and Byrd. He got very lucky there, but there is nothing wrong with good luck, right? In all, Whaley doesn't completely suck. I never claimed that this was the case. Imo he is so-so at best but the team has ben so bad for so long, we as fans tend to embrace any Bill who isn't completely awful and sadly, even some who are (Losman, Manuel, etc.). This is pretty much how I feel. I don't think he's done a bad job, I just think he's vastly overrated by the fans. Most arguments for his greatness look only at one side of the ledger while ignoring the other and/or they compare him to prior GMs who both oversaw the NFL's longest active playoff drought AND who did not have nearly the resources available to them that he does. It's not an apples to apples comparison. It takes no great skill to acquire and retain more talent than your predecessors when you have a much larger budget than they did. Acquiring talented players is great, and I suppose an argument can be made to occasionally overpay for talent in the right situation, but it's been a pretty consistent trend. At some point the overspending in some areas will limit your ability to effectively address others. That said, I'm glad he's getting a little more time. I think we should give him and Rex the opportunity to fully implement their plan and see if it works before pulling the plug. Even though the defensive personnel wasn't a great fit for the scheme, the acquisitions of Darby and TT indicate there might be something to these guys being on the same page and finishing each other's sentences. Sure Dave but if the pick would have been Ebron, who would you blame? Or would we be here saying that he "needs more time?"If he'd picked Ebron it would have been a great pick because a lot of fans and pundits said he'd be good, and those of us who thought Ebron was a risky pick to begin with would be using the benefit of hindsight. Edited January 6, 2016 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) i still say russ brandon is the source. who else has the inside info and balls to leak stuff. the going "rogue" leak smacks of russ being upset over screwing M&T out of their big AD campaign with fred......without advanced notice. maybe T Pegs told russ that rex and whaley have a year to get it right, but never told doug & rex......allowing T Pegs to call BS on Vic's story of him personally giving them an ultimatum. again, russ getting a message out to sponsors & season ticket holders that we are not going to put up with losing for long (selling hope). russ brandon is pretty much the only source left at OBD with a history that dates back to Vic's earlier days at the BN. Edited January 6, 2016 by papazoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I supported the Watkins trade/pick from day one and still support it. Beats having Eric Ebron and whatever mid-round pick we would have gotten with a 7-9 record (factoring in losses to Detroit and Minnesota last season). I know it's hindsight, but the fact they entered the 2014 with a need at WR and their backup to picking Watkins was Ebron has to be scary. The personnel group knew there was a strong WR class available and were opting for the TE. And this was the same year they took Kouandjio in the second. P. Brown might well improve, but that draft save Watkins has been poor 2 years in. And hopefully fans realize now that no WR group will ever make a QB that much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) I guess time will tell and of course, I hope I am wrong. Of one thing I AM certain: This team cannot really does need a good draft. We shot our free agency load so to speak on Clay and McCoy. By the way, your response was a good one and was way funnier than it was probably intended to be. He needs a good draft I agree with that... because we need a couple of defensive play makers for Rex's scheme, we still need help at RT and it would be darn nice to get a new #2 WR and a developmental QB too..... EDIT: And if I made you chuckle with my response Bill then that is a successful day. Edited January 6, 2016 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 WR is the MOST OVER RATED position on the field......especially when you only target them 5 times a game. here is a list of WR drafted highly (mostly 1st round) in the last two years. what do they ALL have in common ?......NONE (but 1) are in the playoffs. 2015 - Amari Cooper - Oak Davante Parker - Mia Nelson Agholor - Phi Breshard Perriman- Bal Devin Smith - Jets Dorial Green Beckham - Ten Sammy Watkins - Buf (used 2 first rounders for him) 2014- Sammy Watkins - Buf Mike Evans- TB Odell Beckham Jr - Giants Brandin Cooks - N.O. Kelvin Benjamin - Car (only wr in playoffs) Marquise Lee - Jax Jordan Mathews- Phi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I know it's hindsight, but the fact they entered the 2014 with a need at WR and their backup to picking Watkins was Ebron has to be scary. The personnel group knew there was a strong WR class available and were opting for the TE.That is one great point you make! And btw, your signature is hilarious. I have come to appreciate the humor on this board more and more. The screen names are just SO good, I think they are worthy of a thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 WR is the MOST OVER RATED position on the field......especially when you only target them 5 times a game. here is a list of WR drafted highly (mostly 1st round) in the last two years. what do they ALL have in common ?......NONE (but 1) are in the playoffs. 2015 - Amari Cooper - Oak Davante Parker - Mia Nelson Agholor - Phi Breshard Perriman- Bal Devin Smith - Jets Dorial Green Beckham - Ten Sammy Watkins - Buf (used 2 first rounders for him) 2014- Sammy Watkins - Buf Mike Evans- TB Odell Beckham Jr - Giants Brandin Cooks - N.O. Kelvin Benjamin - Car (only wr in playoffs) Marquise Lee - Jax Jordan Mathews- Phi And the one who made it is not healthy and has played 0 minutes all year. I have no problem drafting a guy you think can be a clear #1 in the first round. Watkins, Beckham, Evans, Benjamin, Cooper fall into that category for me maybe Green-Beckham if he ever puts it together. The others are complimentary WRs to me and should not be drafted in the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Byrd Man Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 The jury is still out on Whaley imo, but to blame the teams lack of playoff appearances on him is foolish since his career has not spanned the entire drought. He is blamed for the EJ pick which may or may not be true, and is critisized by fans and media for the Sammy pick.. Again it's still alittle early to gage his true value. The main reason for the playoff drought is most attributable to the revolving door at the coaching and GM position. This season is a perfect example. The Bills had a dominant 4/3 D last year then broughtt in a HC who wants to run a 3/4 D. This personal are often not interchangeble so thet regress. TEAMS THAT CONTINUALLY MAKE THE PLAYOFF HAVE STABILITY IN THE FRONT OFFICE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 That is one great point you make! And btw, your signature is hilarious. I have come to appreciate the humor on this board more and more. The screen names are just SO good, I think they are worthy of a thread. The quote in blue is actually what someone told me probably about 4-5 years ago re: my perspective on the team. It sums the situation with this team and the relationship between fans. Or, "celebrate 8-8" which seemed to be the chorus here among a few notable posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 The jury is still out on Whaley imo, but to blame the teams lack of playoff appearances on him is foolish since his career has not spanned the entire drought. He is blamed for the EJ pick which may or may not be true, and is critisized by fans and media for the Sammy pick.. Again it's still alittle early to gage his true value. The main reason for the playoff drought is most attributable to the revolving door at the coaching and GM position. This season is a perfect example. The Bills had a dominant 4/3 D last year then broughtt in a HC who wants to run a 3/4 D. This personal are often not interchangeble so thet regress. TEAMS THAT CONTINUALLY MAKE THE PLAYOFF HAVE STABILITY IN THE FRONT OFFICE. But who made the environment where the coach chose to leave? Who made the choice to hire the coach who came in with a conflicting scheme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 i still say russ brandon is the source. who else has the inside info and balls to leak stuff. the going "rogue" leak smacks of russ being upset over screwing M&T out of their big AD campaign with fred......without advanced notice. maybe T Pegs told russ that rex and whaley have a year to get it right, but never told russ & rex......allowing T Pegs to call BS on Vic's story of him personally giving them an ultimatum. again, russ getting a message out to sponsors & season ticket holders that we are not going to put up with losing for long (selling hope). russ brandon is pretty much the only source left at OBD with a history that dates back to Vic's earlier days at the BN. There are many people still left in FO who have been around forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 WR is the MOST OVER RATED position on the field......especially when you only target them 5 times a game. here is a list of WR drafted highly (mostly 1st round) in the last two years. what do they ALL have in common ?......NONE (but 1) are in the playoffs. 2015 - Amari Cooper - Oak Davante Parker - Mia Nelson Agholor - Phi Breshard Perriman- Bal Devin Smith - Jets Dorial Green Beckham - Ten Sammy Watkins - Buf (used 2 first rounders for him) 2014- Sammy Watkins - Buf Mike Evans- TB Odell Beckham Jr - Giants Brandin Cooks - N.O. Kelvin Benjamin - Car (only wr in playoffs) Marquise Lee - Jax Jordan Mathews- Phi Yup...because all the WR talent in the world doesn't fix QB deficiencies...however great QB's improve WR deficiencies dramatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) I know it's hindsight, but the fact they entered the 2014 with a need at WR and their backup to picking Watkins was Ebron has to be scary. The personnel group knew there was a strong WR class available and were opting for the TE. It's only scary if you assume that they wouldn't have addressed the WR position later on. You're correct in saying that it was a deep WR draft. They clearly had Watkins rated far ahead of the other receivers (or any position for that matter). Ebron, as their backup plan to Watkins, makes sense to me. He was a FAR better prospect than any other TE in that draft. Why take the 3rd best receiver in a draft when receivers 4-10 on their list were likely rated nearly as highly? They could have taken Ebron and still ended up with someone like Allen Robinson or Martavis Bryant. Picking Watkins just speaks to how much higher they thought of him than everyone else. Edited January 6, 2016 by LBSeeBallLBGetBall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Or, "celebrate 8-8" which seemed to be the chorus here among a few notable posters. Who are these 8-8 fanboys you speak of ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 WR is the MOST OVER RATED position on the field......especially when you only target them 5 times a game. here is a list of WR drafted highly (mostly 1st round) in the last two years. what do they ALL have in common ?......NONE (but 1) are in the playoffs. 2015 - Amari Cooper - Oak Davante Parker - Mia Nelson Agholor - Phi Breshard Perriman- Bal Devin Smith - Jets Dorial Green Beckham - Ten Sammy Watkins - Buf (used 2 first rounders for him) 2014- Sammy Watkins - Buf Mike Evans- TB Odell Beckham Jr - Giants Brandin Cooks - N.O. Kelvin Benjamin - Car (only wr in playoffs) Marquise Lee - Jax Jordan Mathews- Phi There's one thing that guys drafted high in the 1st round have in common - The teams that draft them usually aren't very good Don't you think you could do the same with almost any position drafted high in the 1st round in the last two years? Make a list of (fill in the position) drafted high in the 1st round the last 2 years. Determine that only one or two of those teams are in the playoffs. Conclude that (fill in the position) is OVERRATED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan in MD Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Who are these 8-8 fanboys you speak of ? If this team hits 20 years with no playoffs, I'll change my screen name to "8-8 fanboy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 There's one thing that guys drafted high in the 1st round have in common - The teams that draft them usually aren't very good Don't you think you could do the same with almost any position drafted high in the 1st round in the last two years? Make a list of (fill in the position) drafted high in the 1st round the last 2 years. Determine that only one or two of those teams are in the playoffs. Conclude that (fill in the position) is OVERRATED Yup, you could and I have posted it before, with regards to drafting LT/OL in the top 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Rb's and wr's are overrated. Whose left ? Guess we should draft 5 qbs every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 Vic says the Pegulas were very upset that the meeting info leaked and that is why the contract story leaked right after but insists his report is accurate and trusts his source. http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/01/06/audio-vic-carucci-talks-pegula-whaley-and-rex-with-shredd-regan/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Vic says the Pegulas were very upset that the meeting info leaked and that is why the contract story leaked right after but insists his report is accurate and trusts his source. http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/01/06/audio-vic-carucci-talks-pegula-whaley-and-rex-with-shredd-regan/ Its possible... However, Im not sure I buy the 'playoffs or bust' ultimatum. I would be more inclined to believe with "this team had better not take a step back" ultimatum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts