3rdand12 Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) I don't know-- Hogan had a lot of drops where the ball went straight through his hands, without touching anything. Not sure ligaments would have helped that. If it hurts to lift your arms? Between Robert and now Chris being reported as dealing with very difficult injuries, i gotta wonder we would have looked like if healthy and Harvin on the field. I feel like the Black Knight from the Search for the Holy Grail is on our training staff. kj Well right.. Have At You Then ! Its not that simple with Hogan in my mind..... When he drops balls.....they seem to always come at very important times in games also He does not seem to know where the first down marker is on his routes Now this in no way absolves Clay of dropping balls.....only that the bills really need to upgrade that wr spot...the last guy I want trying to catch a back corner end zone fade is Hogan Thing is for me Hogan was not able to catch and run ( yac) or run the pattern past the 1st down marker. It was not so much he couldn't catch as it was , why throw to him on third down? Agree that Bills need to upgrade at WR. Taylor really missed Harvin. He was a viable threat Edited January 5, 2016 by 3rdand12
NoSaint Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Some people decided he sucked 3 years ago when we should have kept D'Rick Walmart Rodgers... you won't change their minds with facts. you have apparently not followed the discussion of hogan for approximately 2 years if you think thats what this thread is.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 @TyDunne New at the BN Blog: #Bills WR Chris Hogan played through torn ligaments in his right wrist... http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/01/05/chris-hogan-has-been-playing-through-a-wrecked-right-wrist/ that explains some drops We're hearing about a lot of guys playing through injuries... somebody had too with all the guys that were out
Mr. WEO Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Its not that simple with Hogan in my mind..... When he drops balls.....they seem to always come at very important times in games also He does not seem to know where the first down marker is on his routes Now this in no way absolves Clay of dropping balls.....only that the bills really need to upgrade that wr spot...the last guy I want trying to catch a back corner end zone fade is Hogan This whole idea of him dropping a lot of balls, at critical times or others, is a complete fabrication by a large group of posters. The facts clearly show otherwise. Caught 61% of his passes, half of those were for 1st downs.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 This whole idea of him dropping a lot of balls, at critical times or others, is a complete fabrication by a large group of posters. The facts clearly show otherwise. Caught 61% of his passes, half of those were for 1st downs. Drops are an arbitrary stat and if you show clips of ten passes in a year that hit a guy in the hands one person is going to say he had two drops and another is going to say he had eight.
3rdand12 Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 This whole idea of him dropping a lot of balls, at critical times or others, is a complete fabrication by a large group of posters. The facts clearly show otherwise. Caught 61% of his passes, half of those were for 1st downs. so 30.5 for first downs? more context please. many many targets and on what down? My concern has been him moving chains when passed to. Maybe its just a perception?
Formerly Allan in MD Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Hogan had 4 drops. Same as Clay. He had the second highest catch rate for WRs on the team. Thank you.
Mr. WEO Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Drops are an arbitrary stat and if you show clips of ten passes in a year that hit a guy in the hands one person is going to say he had two drops and another is going to say he had eight. So the statisticians who keep track of these stats for the NFL are arbitrary, but you know what dropped pass is for sure. This is the stuff people say when they can't argue what is known. so 30.5 for first downs? more context please. many many targets and on what down? My concern has been him moving chains when passed to. Maybe its just a perception? It doesn't matter what down....a 1st down is a 1st down. He was a possession receiver and was getting 1st downs. 50% of his catches were for 1sts (30.5% of his targets).
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 I really don't know why some people can't accept that Hogan is a solid NFL wr. With a few better throws, he would have been a huge reason why we could have beat the Pats on Monday. He gets open.
3rdand12 Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 So the statisticians who keep track of these stats for the NFL are arbitrary, but you know what dropped pass is for sure. This is the stuff people say when they can't argue what is known. It doesn't matter what down....a 1st down is a 1st down. He was a possession receiver and was getting 1st downs. 50% of his catches were for 1sts (30.5% of his targets). yes it does. I dont argue his drops i argue his field position and ability to move the ball when it matters. Defenses change coverages on third down depending on distance. lets not be foolish Weo and chase each down a rabbit hole over a player who is adequate at best. That being said i have been a fan of his as an underdog for years. and now that years have past, i think Bills should seek better. if he can improve thats fantastic for the team
Kelly the Dog Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 So the statisticians who keep track of these stats for the NFL are arbitrary, but you know what dropped pass is for sure. This is the stuff people say when they can't argue what is known. Nonsense. The bomb he dropped (which I thought was right in his hands and an obvious drop) a huge portion of people here didn't call that a drop and a huge portion did. I would bet that the stats guys you are referencing didn't call that one a drop when it was a clear drop. That's what I am talking about. And the first down stats are incomplete, too. Show the stats where he was stopped a yard short of the first down. Those are what people complain about. 50% without context is near worthless.
Saxum Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Some people decided he sucked 3 years ago when we should have kept D'Rick Walmart Rodgers... you won't change their minds with facts. Facts are for those without 'inside sources' - ask Jerry and Vic. He was still block effectively.
Mr. WEO Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) yes it does. I dont argue his drops i argue his field position and ability to move the ball when it matters. Defenses change coverages on third down depending on distance. lets not be foolish Weo and chase each down a rabbit hole over a player who is adequate at best. That being said i have been a fan of his as an underdog for years. and now that years have past, i think Bills should seek better. if he can improve thats fantastic for the team I just showed you that half of his catches resulted in first downs! He's a possession receiver who is asked to get first downs. He's not a 1 or a 2. What else do you want from him? Nonsense. The bomb he dropped (which I thought was right in his hands and an obvious drop) a huge portion of people here didn't call that a drop and a huge portion did. I would bet that the stats guys you are referencing didn't call that one a drop when it was a clear drop. That's what I am talking about. And the first down stats are incomplete, too. Show the stats where he was stopped a yard short of the first down. Those are what people complain about. 50% without context is near worthless. Oh yeah, that bomb he dropped when he was doing that thing in that game. Oh i guarantee that every stat keeper in the world did not recored that as the obvious drop that it was!! You want a stat where a guy gets stopped short of a first down?? Why not just ask "show me a stat that proves that I'm right because I can't accept actual stats that don't support my own personal beliefs about this guy". Here's a hint: he was stopped short of a first down on every catch where he didn't get a first down. Why not just admit that you had no idea what his drop number was before you concluded that he dropped a lot of balls? Edited January 6, 2016 by Mr. WEO
Kelly the Dog Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I just showed you that half of his catches resulted in first downs! He's a possession receiver who is asked to get first downs. He's not a 1 or a 2. What else do you want from him? Oh yeah, that bomb he dropped when he was doing that thing in that game. Oh i guarantee that every stat keeper in the world did not recored that as the obvious drop that it was!! You want a stat where a guy gets stopped short of a first down?? Why not just ask "show me a stat that proves that I'm right because I can't accept actual stats that don't support my own personal beliefs about this guy". Here's a hint: he was stopped short of a first down on every catch where he didn't get a first down. Why not just admit that you had no idea what his drop number was before you concluded that he dropped a lot of balls? I watch the games and then I watch them again. It's easy. Plus I have watched football for 50 years and have had dozens and dozens and dozens of moments in a game when one guy with me who knows a lot of football says a pass that hit the WR in two hands was a drop and another guy who knows a lot of football says no, it was too hard or too high or slightly behind him and wasn't a drop. That pretty much happens every game. That stat place you use said Sammy had three drops the whole year. He's had more. For sure. And he's been great.
NoSaint Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Weo - who would you consider comparable players to hogan? Just as a gut reaction to his role on our team and someone similar around the league current/recent
fansince88 Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I'm preferring Greg Salas to 7/11 right now!! This is probably why he saw so many throws on Sunday. I don't know-- Hogan had a lot of drops where the ball went straight through his hands, without touching anything. Not sure ligaments would have helped that. Ligaments help to hold the bones together no? Never mind. I really don't know why some people can't accept that Hogan is a solid NFL wr. With a few better throws, he would have been a huge reason why we could have beat the Pats on Monday. He gets open. Pay him....
3rdand12 Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 This whole idea of him dropping a lot of balls, at critical times or others, is a complete fabrication by a large group of posters. The facts clearly show otherwise. Caught 61% of his passes, half of those were for 1st downs. so he dropped 4 of every ten targets and of those ten, 3 were for first downs approximately. I wont argue it. Don't know why it often seemed to me he came up short on third downs. I mean realistically that could be on the QB right? The play call , a pattern breaking down , protection falling apart. Was here to give Hogan a bit of pass due to a key injury. But i still would like to see some upgrades. Tough season for our receivers for sure
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