PO16FFS Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I am now truly convinced that many on here think that whoever plays for the Bills is an instant baller. A keeper, a potential HOFer. Seriously, the so called Kool Aid drinkers are on fire in this thread. Players like Hogan are a dime a dozen. Most of the time I cant even tell if that guy is on the field or not. He is not a threat whatsoever, has no upswing and really is average. But hey, GO BILLS! 16 years and counting with scrubs like Hogan. Can someone explain the injury declaration rule. If they were injured, why were they never on the injury report?
Chandler#81 Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Damn, I hate agreeing with fredex22 but I do here. He reminds me of Josh Reed. Not in stature or playmaking, just that he was at best average, yet stayed on the team for far too many years. If Hogan isn't a Bill at the start of the regular season next year, I'll know we've improved.
8-8 Forever? Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Is that why he dropped so many passes?? well, I sure would have liked to have Woods and Harvin out there, that's for sure. and Clay.... tough year for the hands guys this year Edited January 6, 2016 by 8and8-->NoMore
dave mcbride Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Hogan is just ok, but having a torn wrist ligament is TRULY a mitigating circumstance. I can't even imagine playing in that sort of pain.
GunnerBill Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Weo - who would you consider comparable players to hogan? Just as a gut reaction to his role on our team and someone similar around the league current/recent I have two names for you - Nate Washington and Brian Hartline. That is what I see Hogan as. Hartline had a couple of really big years in Miami and Washington had one in Tennessee otherwise they have been solid complimentary possession receivers on their teams. I am the board's biggest Hogan supporter.... but my guess is he isn't here next year because we have had him for two years at the minimum and I suspect that someone pays him more than like that $1.5 - $2m a year price range that Hartline and Washington are in for 2016. EDIT: And I should say I am not banging the table for us to pay him that because I don't think his skill set is that different to Woods and I think we should be drafting a guy to replace Woods who is a FA after 2016 and will likely not be retained. I don't think it is sensible to have Hogan infront of said draft pick blocking opportunities. Edited January 6, 2016 by GunnerBill
Mr. WEO Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I watch the games and then I watch them again. It's easy. Plus I have watched football for 50 years and have had dozens and dozens and dozens of moments in a game when one guy with me who knows a lot of football says a pass that hit the WR in two hands was a drop and another guy who knows a lot of football says no, it was too hard or too high or slightly behind him and wasn't a drop. That pretty much happens every game. That stat place you use said Sammy had three drops the whole year. He's had more. For sure. And he's been great. We all watch the games. The idea that Hogan drops a lot of balls is not true, simply. If you want to make up your own definition with your friends of what a dropped pass is then go to it. Weo - who would you consider comparable players to hogan? Just as a gut reaction to his role on our team and someone similar around the league current/recent I don't think he's a great WR, I'm just pointing out that once a misconception gets repeated often enough, for some it becomes fact. Right now, he's the 3rd WR in regard to total yards. He's second in YPC. Woods is not an order of magnitude better. so he dropped 4 of every ten targets and of those ten, 3 were for first downs approximately. I wont argue it. Don't know why it often seemed to me he came up short on third downs. I mean realistically that could be on the QB right? The play call , a pattern breaking down , protection falling apart. Was here to give Hogan a bit of pass due to a key injury. But i still would like to see some upgrades. Tough season for our receivers for sure No. He dropped 4 all season.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) @TyDunne New at the BN Blog: #Bills WR Chris Hogan played through torn ligaments in his right wrist... http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/01/05/chris-hogan-has-been-playing-through-a-wrecked-right-wrist/ This just has me shaking my head, along with Woods groin issue. WTF? I mean, I understand that football is a tough, physical game and guys get bruised and banged up and by the end of the season are going on toradol injections and cold tub treatment But a WR has to be able to run and to catch There need to be adequate depth players stashed on the practice squad OR as depth, whom the coaches will trust to put in there. It only hurts the team if you've got a WR who is in intense pain when he catches the ball and consequently not willing to catch like he should with his fingers, or a WR who has a torn groin and can't break off the line and get open. I like Easley, but before he was injured if the coaches don't feel comfortable putting him in there instead of Mr Torn Cables, he shouldn't be there. The Bills in the SB era had no hesitation putting Tasker in to play WR when one of the starters was hurt. Something between the Bills training staff and the players and coaches is broken - communication, judgement, something. Edited January 6, 2016 by Hopeful
26CornerBlitz Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 @TyDunne Hogan said he'd down Nyquil to get sleep and whenever ball hit his hand, "that’s when it was shocking pain.” Surgery this week.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) We all watch the games. The idea that Hogan drops a lot of balls is not true, simply. If you want to make up your own definition with your friends of what a dropped pass is then go to it. He makes his share of drops. I never said he drops a ton of passes. That's not his big problem. My contention was using drops as a stat is not a clear indication of drops because different people think a drop differently. You know that's true. Some people including Wr themselves think anything that hits two hands they don't catch is a drop. Sometimes a drop is when you are hit and sometimes it's not. It doesn't count weather conditions where a short hard pass slightly behind you is extremely hard catch where half the people would call it a drop and the other half would say it was a bad pass, too hard and behind him. It's not a stat like yards. The NFL doesn't even know what a catch is let alone a drop. That said He's a tough bastard. Gotta give him credit. But it seems like only the last game was it unbearable. And only the last few did he have it. His issues have been the whole year. He shouldn't even have been playing the last game with the torn ligament. He's a man. Trainers should have kept him out. Edited January 6, 2016 by Kelly the Dog
yungmack Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Hogan had 4 drops. Same as Clay. He had the second highest catch rate for WRs on the team.Oh, you and your facts.
Maddog69 Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Teams and team doctors should be protecting players from themselves. They should not be allowing players to play with serious injuries such as these. Scrapes, Bruises, soreness, slight muscle pulls, sure go ahead and play. But all other injuries should be held out. Roster sizes and maybe salary cap should be increased to allow teams to protect player safety,
GunnerBill Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I am in favour of 55 man rosters and think the NFL should look to bring them into effect.
3rdand12 Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 We all watch the games. The idea that Hogan drops a lot of balls is not true, simply. If you want to make up your own definition with your friends of what a dropped pass is then go to it. I don't think he's a great WR, I'm just pointing out that once a misconception gets repeated often enough, for some it becomes fact. Right now, he's the 3rd WR in regard to total yards. He's second in YPC. Woods is not an order of magnitude better. No. He dropped 4 all season. You said " Caught 61% of his passes, half of those were for 1st downs." That means he dropped 39%, so i rounded. That also means he gained first downs on approx 20 % of targets. i realize my math skills are weak and i said i would not argue the point. But you drug me back in. Are you saying he had 10 passes targeted ? Please quote some reputable site. I am in favour of 55 man rosters and think the NFL should look to bring them into effect. after this season across the NFL ? Heck yes and a bigger ps
Saxum Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Players like Hogan are a dime a dozen. Most of the time I cant even tell if that guy is on the field or not. He is not a threat whatsoever, has no upswing and really is average. I neglect to see what your less than average ability to comprehend what is going on should affect what others post about. He was mostly used as slot receiver and due to his height and experience Tyrod has not been able to hit the middle of field where he mostly plays reliably. He was used on bunch plays a fair amount taking the short route doing blocking and cuts of DBs. Listen to some of the broadcasts and you will hear announcers talking about the blocks he made to free other players to make plays. Teams and team doctors should be protecting players from themselves. They should not be allowing players to play with serious injuries such as these. Scrapes, Bruises, soreness, slight muscle pulls, sure go ahead and play. But all other injuries should be held out. Roster sizes and maybe salary cap should be increased to allow teams to protect player safety, Salary cap is determined by deal with NFLPA. I am sure they will be glad to get higher percentage to go to players but if you are increasing roster / practice squad size to allow more players to go on IR this means more and more money will be spent on injured players, And I think any increase in salary cap will mostly go to already highly paid players unless deal is made with NFLPA on distribution. I am in favour of 55 man rosters and think the NFL should look to bring them into effect. Having entire roster being able to use for coaches (no inactives required) will result in less development and more injury settlements to players. When the other team is willing to use all roster slots teams will not be able to let some players heal a few weeks being inactive.
NoSaint Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 You said " Caught 61% of his passes, half of those were for 1st downs." That means he dropped 39%, so i rounded. That also means he gained first downs on approx 20 % of targets. i realize my math skills are weak and i said i would not argue the point. But you drug me back in. Are you saying he had 10 passes targeted ? Please quote some reputable site. after this season across the NFL ? Heck yes and a bigger ps Not all non-catches are drops is the disconnect
3rdand12 Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Not all non-catches are drops is the disconnect I am too old and befuddled to defend. Much less take a stance : ) worse yet i can hardly run away. Hogan is okay as a fourth fifth option in the real world. I do like the kid, he plays hard all game long. But maybe Bills can do better. maybe. thanks for being polite to me N S.
Lofton80 Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 He took out 2 guys on Mike G s long to run against the Cowboys, one of the best blocking efforts you will see from a WR. Also a good special teamed. He is a good 5 the wrong, not a 2 or a 3.
NoSaint Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 @TyDunne Hogan said he'd down Nyquil to get sleep and whenever ball hit his hand, "thats when it was shocking pain. Surgery this week. Well that's not a good set of info on any front....
NoSaint Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) I have two names for you - Nate Washington and Brian Hartline. That is what I see Hogan as. Hartline had a couple of really big years in Miami and Washington had one in Tennessee otherwise they have been solid complimentary possession receivers on their teams. I am the board's biggest Hogan supporter.... but my guess is he isn't here next year because we have had him for two years at the minimum and I suspect that someone pays him more than like that $1.5 - $2m a year price range that Hartline and Washington are in for 2016. EDIT: And I should say I am not banging the table for us to pay him that because I don't think his skill set is that different to Woods and I think we should be drafting a guy to replace Woods who is a FA after 2016 and will likely not be retained. I don't think it is sensible to have Hogan infront of said draft pick blocking opportunities. The reason I was curious (and I suspect why Weo punted that question) is he was pointing to stats like 50% of his catches being 1st downs but no anchor/benchmark for if that's actually good. I'd venture a guess that a good portion of catches are probably first downs. Hartline for instance in his last 4 years has bounced around from 2/3 to 3/4 of his being for firsts. Hogan has been 50% or lower. If 5-6 times a year he comes up a little short when another guy gets there, it's likely a valid criticism - without looking at more benchmarks of his peer players and frankly more tape of each to compare it's hard to say definitively but it's sure not cut and dry like he's presenting I'm fine with the guy as a #4 but nothing to write home about Edited January 7, 2016 by NoSaint
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Weo - who would you consider comparable players to hogan? Just as a gut reaction to his role on our team and someone similar around the league current/recent Kenny Stills? 27 recs. 63 tgts 440 yds 16.3 avg 3 td 18 fd in wins: 4 recs 69 yds 0 tds in losses: 23 recs 371 yds 3 tds rushing: 0 yds 0 att Chris Hogan 36 recs 59 tgts 450 yds 12.5 avg 2 td 18 fd in wins: 10 recs 147 yds 2 tds in losses: 26 recs 303 yds 0 tds rushing: 4 yds 1 att There's a few numbers a little different but he's pretty darn close, but not as good of a blocker as Chris.
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