Now is when McCoy's contract bites us in the butt

[buffalonian]

Whaley also has to be thinking about 2017. Hopefully we will have to give Taylor a big contract after he plays awesome in 2016. And Gilmore will be up too.

[BrooklynBills]

 

If you sign 3 quality starters to replace those 5 starters you released, the Bills would have no money to sign Glenn and Incognito. The Bills are severely handcuffed next year because of how poorly they managed the cap.

 

Would you want to go into next season with Wood, Miller, Mills, and Cyrus as your offensive line?

We will cut more players than just Mario Williams.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

We will cut more players than just Mario Williams.

 

Still won't be enough in your hypothetical when you add the other holes you created as well that will have to be filled.

Edited January 4, 2016 by BuffaloBillsForever

[fansince88]

Did you notice that we were down to ONE running back yesterday?

Yes, about 12-13 runs into Mikes day!

[BADOLBILZ]

I strongly suspect that he'll be on the team next year. Not a bad injury, and he was playing well beforehand. When contemplating cutting him, you can be sure that Whaley and Rex will ask, "Well yeah, but who are we going to replace him with, and how much will that person cost?"

 

 

They should wait to see who they can get to replace him before they cut him.

 

The same Ol' Bills would cut him early so that "he could have better chance to catch on elsewhere"......only to end up getting a much WORSE player to replace him.

 

See cutting Ryan Fitzpatrick and then telling everyone "you had no choice" but to sign Kevin Kolb.

 

But on paper, in Rex D.......the answer about who to replace him with is someone bigger and longer.

 

Unless Rex plans on turning over a new leaf and using Pettine's playbook instead of his own.

[Santana]

 

The main point of this thread is how much based on cap hit was McCoy worth to the 2015 Bills? He started 12 times and rushed for more than 80 in half those games. If he was worth 2 wins this year that's a tall price for a RB.

 

And looking forward, as others have pointed out, his contract is impeding their ability to make moves to improve other areas of the team.

 

I also don't believe that McCoy is suited to their style of play, which seems more built for a 1 cut guy and not someone who bounces it outside and heads for the sideline.

How much was Mario Williams worth? How much was Marcel Dareus worth? How much was Leodis McKelvin (he mad $600,000) less than McCoy this year. His contract isn't impeding the Bills to do anything, I don't understand where all of this is coming from. There are plenty of ways to adjust the cap by releasing players or restructuring contracts. All teams do this on a regular basis. I do agree with you that McCoy isn't a one cut back but he's a player that teams have to account for on every down because he can do it all. He only counted for $5.5mil this year and $7.6 this year and $8.8mil in 2017.

[boyst]

But I was lamb basted here for saying its a bad trade!!!

 

A broken kiko is as valuable as a dinged up, 75% of the season, huge payday ahead McCoy. He will be cut before the final year of that comes due.

[Bill from NYC]

I know we're all supposed to hate Mike Rodak, but I think this piece is helpful for Bills fans...it also indirectly brings the dubious nature of McCoy's contract back up for discussion I know that's been done to death, but the article shows why in better detail:

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/23161/answering-key-bills-2016-free-agency-and-salary-cap-questions

McCoy's big cap number is a problem.

Badol knew this while they were looking for pens to sign this contract.

 

Is he still "wrong?"

[KollegeStudnet]

McCoy is a great player. Now, worth the contract? Yes.

 

Along with the cap, the team will change.

 

Mcluvin will restructure

Clay will restructure

Mario may get cut.

 

Moves that could free up $13-$19 mill in caproom.

[IronyAbounds]

People seem to be in agreement that Mario's saved cap money, and that of a few other of the Bills' B list players (excluding EJ since cutting him saves $0) will be used to resign Glenn and Incognito and pick up a few B list players from other teams. What baffles me is that people think that tinkering with this roster with a few B list players is suddenly going to transform this team into a playoff team. Perhaps on a planet where Rex Ryan is suddenly transformed from a blowhard buffoon into a competent head coach, but not on Planet Earth. The Bills are going to need more than just a few B list replacements for their B list cuts to make the playoffs. Perhaps the money spent on McCoy wouldn't accomplish that, but it would help a little. If Dareus doesn't revert to prime form next year the big hurt will be the cap hit he causes. Frankly, as long as the Bills are stuck with Ryan, it's just shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Edited January 4, 2016 by IronyAbounds

[Saint Doug]

I agree with you McCoy is a nice back but I think it's been proved over and over again that rb's are largely interchangeable in this league and he isn't going to get any better next year or going forward.

Look up our RB production (not the rest of the league) over the last 5 years. Are RBs just a dime-a-dozen like you say? If so, why haven't they ever worked out for us?

 

Sure, Shady is expensive and he was injured most of the year. Did we have a crystal ball knowing we were going to hit gold on Karlos (who's been injured a lot too, btw)? Did we know TT being so good was going to cover up the deficiencies of our running game? The plan was for the opposite. A lot of atypical things actually happened to the Bills this season (except for the 8-8 record, which was to be expected).

Edited January 4, 2016 by Saint Doug

[jester43]

 

You do realize that every NFL team, at least every competitive NFL team, will spend right up to the cap each and every year, correct? And each and every year those same teams will rework contracts and make moves to keep the team operating right at the limit of the cap. That's the only way to build competitive rosters in the modern NFL. There will NEVER be a year where a contending team also has 20+ million in cap room during the season, that's just not the reality of the modern NFL.

 

So, knowing that, how do you determine which adjective to assign the Bills' cap situation? Yes, they are currently projected to be over the cap (by less than a million), but that is meaningless because everyone knows that they will free up 12+ million in cap room with one move alone. So, does 12 million under the cap make you feel better about the Bills' cap situation? I'd say taking comfort in that number is as silly as fretting over the Bills being one million over the cap right now. Why? Because the cap is fluid. It changes (and increases) regularly, players get moved, new players come in, the draft keeps labor cheap for 4 (sometimes 5) years -- all of which gives NFL teams the necessary tools to keep their rosters out of "cap jail".

 

I'm curious what cap figure would make you comfortable, especially considering the Bills are always going to be right up against the cap by the time the season kicks off... it's not going to change unless they're massively rebuilding -- which they most assuredly will NOT be doing this coming off season.

oh brother.

 

yes, i understand good teams spend to the cap...and that it goes up. but i also know if we're going got cut a bunch of guys to clear space we need to sign a bunch to replace them. especially since several of them are starters. i can't tell you exactly how much space we'll need, because I don't know who's available that might help us.

 

but if we're cutting mario to (hopefully) re-sign glenn and incognito, that doesn't leave much to play with. and we'll still need a safety, DT, kicker, linebacker...not to mention another good WR.

 

Muhammed Wilkerson would be a HUGE get for this defense, but we have no shot at him. whaley all but confirmed it today. I'm not saying we could have gotten him wioth mccoy's money...i know it wouldn't be enough. but it would have helped. it might have gotten us close enough to make it realistic

 

and as badol mentioned, the problem only gets worse next year. i'd like to keep gilmore around after next season. and if, god forbid, we should win 10 or 11 games, how are we going to pay taylor?

 

you can deny its a problem if you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it limits what we can do to make the team better. and that's disappointing because i don't think we're far off.

Edited January 4, 2016 by jester43

[BADOLBILZ]

Look up our RB production (not the rest of the league) over the last 5 years. Are RBs just a dime-a-dozen like you say? If so, why haven't they ever worked out for us?

 

 

I believe the Bills lead the NFL in rushing in year one under your namesake.

 

That year Jackson spiit carries with CJ and they basically ran one play up the middle the entire season and yet Fred rushed for almost IDENTICAL numbers as Shady this year........but he had 9 TD's to LeSean's 3.

 

CJ's production was about the same as well............even though we were constantly told that they were wasting his talent by running him up the middle for 4.6 ypc.

 

The difference in the Bills run game this year was in great part due to Taylor and the other two backs rolling up BIG plays.......many of which became TD's.

 

I thought the Bills offense kinda' stalled in the middle of the season as they over-emphasized McCoy.

 

It's hard to face the reality......because it is crazy fun to watch him jump cut people out of their shoes.....but in the end it's small ball.

 

TT is not a good enough pocket passer and the defense is not good enough to prop up a run game that specializes in small gains and offers no physical impact.

 

McCoy needs to improve A LOT in 2016.........and even he knows it.

[John from Riverside]

 

 

I believe the Bills lead the NFL in rushing in year one under your namesake.

 

That year Jackson spiit carries with CJ and they basically ran one play up the middle the entire season and yet Fred rushed for almost IDENTICAL numbers as Shady this year........but he had 9 TD's to LeSean's 3.

 

CJ's production was about the same as well............even though we were constantly told that they were wasting his talent by running him up the middle for 4.6 ypc.

 

The difference in the Bills run game this year was in great part due to Taylor and the other two backs rolling up BIG plays.......many of which became TD's.

 

I thought the Bills offense kinda' stalled in the middle of the season as they over-emphasized McCoy.

 

It's hard to face the reality......because it is crazy fun to watch him jump cut people out of their shoes.....but in the end it's small ball.

 

TT is not a good enough pocket passer and the defense is not good enough to prop up a run game that specializes in small gains and offers no physical impact.

 

McCoy needs to improve A LOT in 2016.........and even he knows it.

I agree with this. Shady does need to pick it up next year. The injury bug got him down this year and he needs to stay healthy.

[HOUSE]

I am not sold that McCoy s on the team in September.

[jester43]

Badol knew this while they were looking for pens to sign this contract.Is he still "wrong?"

I don't think(?) I ever said he was wrong. I have enjoyed having McCoy around. The only place I might have disagreed is that I seem to think he's still a better player than badol. But this is the 2nd year in a row that injuries have taken a big bite out of his production. So it's hard to argue the notion we're living on very expensive borrowed time with this guy.

[3rdand12]

why ?

 

We have what we have.

 

The guy blocked as well as Fred , left it on the field and still...

fans need to find fault.

 

i was not a Fan at all.

Till i watched him play after a couple games.

The deal is done. just root for the overpaid under skilled useless ass mouth breather if that's what it takes.

He is ours, he wears the jersey. Get behind the team or get off the team.

Sammy said so.

[BADOLBILZ]

I don't think(?) I ever said he was wrong. I have enjoyed having McCoy around. The only place I might have disagreed is that I seem to think he's still a better player than badol. But this is the 2nd year in a row that injuries have taken a big bite out of his production. So it's hard to argue the notion we're living on very expensive borrowed time with this guy.

 

 

Yeah I think that was directed at a general audience.

 

I think McCoy is still a good player but a bad fit.

 

And I'm not truly sure where a "great" fit for a scatback is nowadays.

 

Hard to get wide running the ball when the seventh man in the box is a DB who is faster than you........and it's hard to get the old mismatch against a LB in coverage when that LB rarely sees the field anymore.

 

Emphasis on passing has helped kill the scatback.

[3rdand12]

 

 

Yeah I think that was directed at a general audience.

 

I think McCoy is still a good player but a bad fit.

 

And I'm not truly sure where a "great" fit for a scatback is nowadays.

 

Hard to get wide running the ball when the seventh man in the box is a DB who is faster than you........and it's hard to get the old mismatch against a LB in coverage when that LB rarely sees the field anymore.

 

Emphasis on passing has helped kill the scatback.

If we keep lining up 71 as the ineligible extra man, or the 7th lineman and going heavy, eventually we get the mismatch for the guy who can cut on a dime ( and he can) to break it against what the Def lines up. Just wait till Bills are adept enough to go no huddle and keep off the D subs !! Its coming : )

Edited January 5, 2016 by 3rdand12

[Deranged Rhino]

oh brother.

 

yes, i understand good teams spend to the cap...and that it goes up. but i also know if we're going got cut a bunch of guys to clear space we need to sign a bunch to replace them. especially since several of them are starters. i can't tell you exactly how much space we'll need, because I don't know who's available that might help us.

 

but if we're cutting mario to (hopefully) re-sign glenn and incognito, that doesn't leave much to play with. and we'll still need a safety, DT, kicker, linebacker...not to mention another good WR.

 

Muhammed Wilkerson would be a HUGE get for this defense, but we have no shot at him. whaley all but confirmed it today. I'm not saying we could have gotten him wioth mccoy's money...i know it wouldn't be enough. but it would have helped. it might have gotten us close enough to make it realistic

 

and as badol mentioned, the problem only gets worse next year. i'd like to keep gilmore around after next season. and if, god forbid, we should win 10 or 11 games, how are we going to pay taylor?

 

you can deny its a problem if you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it limits what we can do to make the team better. and that's disappointing because i don't think we're far off.

 

The point is that the Bills are not limited by the cap in terms of what they can or will do, at least no more than any other team trying to contend. They can't pursue every option, no team can, but If there's a guy out there they absolutely believe will put them over the top they'll go get him and will find the room to make it work. They've shown this mentality to be true in their (very brief) tenure so far, from the Pegulas down to Whaley and Rex. The cap won't prevent that kind of signing because there are always ways to make it work.

 

Star players have to get paid. And Shady is undeniably a star player who makes a difference maker on the field. His cap number is high and we can debate the devaluation of the RB position all we want (and I'd agree the position has been devalued), but his cap number is not going to prevent the Bills from signing the one or two guys they need to bridge that gap between not-that-far-off and actual contenders.

 

There's money and room to make moves but the team is choosing to spend it resigning their own this off season, which includes Gilmore (at a more reasonable cap number once he's extended, freeing up even more room). That's the plan, it's been the plan since the conclusion of last off season -- which is good since I, like you, agree they're not really far off. But they would be if they lose some of their core, young players. Thankfully McCoy's contract won't prevent that from happening.