Doc Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 If Sammy goes down, Boldin won't replace him. He was SF's leading receiver with those stats, which are about equal to Woods' 2014 season. He'd provide leadership, no question.
Doc Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 Sammy wouldn't be easily replaced. However, Boldin would be the next best thing. Nope. He's not the player he once was.
Augie Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 Like him or not, we need Woods healthy and having a HUGE year for us. Part of that is blocking in the run game, and part is moving the chains. We NEED this guy to earn himself a big contract. Win/win.
BADOLBILZ Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 If Sammy goes down, Boldin won't replace him. He was SF's leading receiver with those stats, which are about equal to Woods' 2014 season. He'd provide leadership, no question. I'm not sure who would think that anything left on the market could replace a potential All-Pro talent in Sammy Watkins but if such a person exists they are out-their-mind. Boldin can't get a job mostly because pedestrian production like Woods 2014 season is not in demand. And what was Boldin's worst season in over a decade was the best season in the career of Bob Woods.
Doc Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 I'm aware. He's still better then anything else we have outside of Sammy. True but he'd be another #2 WR. I'm not sure who would think that anything left on the market could replace a potential All-Pro talent in Sammy Watkins but if such a person exists they are out-their-mind. Boldin can't get a job mostly because pedestrian production like Woods 2014 season is not in demand. And what was Boldin's worst season in over a decade was the best season in the career of Bob Woods. The thing is, Boldin is only going to get worse. You talk about Shady's YPR, what about Boldin's steadily declining YPC over the past 5 years (and at the rate he's on, he'll be in the 10 YPC range this year)? Now I'd give him a call if Sammy goes down during the season, but I wouldn't expect him to change the team's fortunes.
BADOLBILZ Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 The thing is, Boldin is only going to get worse. You talk about Shady's YPR, what about Boldin's steadily declining YPC over the past 5 years (and at the rate he's on, he'll be in the 10 YPC range this year)? Now I'd give him a call if Sammy goes down during the season, but I wouldn't expect him to change the team's fortunes. You are talking apples and oranges dude. A $40M contract for a declining, self-centered RB with no leadership or championship experience is a lot different than a cheap 1 year deal for a declining high character team leader personality at WR who knows what it takes to reach a championship level. I noticed Bandit mention a few times "what does what has happened in the past 15 years matter in 2016"...........and the answer to that is that this organization really doesn't know how to win and that mental baggage is still part of the roster. A guy like Boldin brings credibility to a locker room. Anyone who has read Ross Tuckers articles knows that players that don't believe in leadership.....whether they like them or not....... tend to not buy in completely and when you are asking players to believe in a coach like Rex with a well established track record for losing and his brother.........a man who has been a disgrace as a DC in recent years.......I think it helps to have leadership players believe in in the locker room. I thought the Bills made a mistake not pursuing Boldin last year.......Sammy's attitude was a problem early in the season and he hasn't had much veteran leadership at his position and showed a lot of immaturity that he might not have pulled playing opposite a warrior like Boldin. This year I am less convinced Boldin can make much of an impact but they really only have 2 proven NFL WR on their roster....and one is the middling Bob Woods.........so they could probably do a lot worse than taking a shot on Boldin.
Doc Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 You are talking apples and oranges dude. A $40M contract for a declining, self-centered RB with no leadership or championship experience is a lot different than a cheap 1 year deal for a declining high character team leader personality at WR who knows what it takes to reach a championship level. I noticed Bandit mention a few times "what does what has happened in the past 15 years matter in 2016"...........and the answer to that is that this organization really doesn't know how to win and that mental baggage is still part of the roster. A guy like Boldin brings credibility to a locker room. Anyone who has read Ross Tuckers articles knows that players that don't believe in leadership.....whether they like them or not....... tend to not buy in completely and when you are asking players to believe in a coach like Rex with a well established track record for losing and his brother.........a man who has been a disgrace as a DC in recent years.......I think it helps to have leadership players believe in in the locker room. I thought the Bills made a mistake not pursuing Boldin last year.......Sammy's attitude was a problem early in the season and he hasn't had much veteran leadership at his position and showed a lot of immaturity that he might not have pulled playing opposite a warrior like Boldin. This year I am less convinced Boldin can make much of an impact but they really only have 2 proven NFL WR on their roster....and one is the middling Bob Woods.........so they could probably do a lot worse than taking a shot on Boldin. Well, the first thing you need to ask is "what is Boldin asking for in terms of annual salary and length of contract?" He made $7M with the 49'ers last year. And he probably wants a 3-year deal. Would you pay that for a guy clearly in decline, just for leadership? And make no mistake, a guy who is 35 and whose YPC has been declining steadily for 5 years is in decline. A guy who is 27 and whose YPR went up...no, you can't say that.
BADOLBILZ Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 Well, the first thing you need to ask is "what is Boldin asking for in terms of annual salary and length of contract?" He made $7M with the 49'ers last year. And he probably wants a 3-year deal. Would you pay that for a guy clearly in decline, just for leadership? And make no mistake, a guy who is 35 and whose YPC has been declining steadily for 5 years is in decline. A guy who is 27 and whose YPR went up...no, you can't say that. He ain't getting no 3 year deal or anything close to $7M ...... he is unlikely to exceed $3M for the one year he does get........more likely it will be in the low $2M's.........and he may just choose to retire rather than take that.
Chilly Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) The Bills WR situation is a disaster waiting to happen. What WR have you ever heard of that got better AFTER they put a screw in his foot? Not to mention Sammy's getting an injury list as long as a CVS receipt. And we have nothing else at WR. Robert Woods is just not very good. His catch rate is terrible, he's been ranked behind guys like Hogan and Hankerson in DVOA the past few years, and those guys aren't very good either. If Watkins goes down, which unfortunately is a very real possibility, we're basically boned at WR. All you have to do is take away McCoy and Clay and our passing game is done. This is easily one of the positions I'm the most worried about this year and I'm disappointed we haven't really addressed it. Edited May 19, 2016 by Chilly
mannc Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 The Bills WR situation is a disaster waiting to happen. What WR have you ever heard of that got better AFTER they put a screw in his foot? Not to mention Sammy's getting an injury list as long as a CVS receipt. And we have nothing else at WR. Robert Woods is just not very good. His catch rate is terrible, he's been ranked behind guys like Hogan and Hankerson in DVOA the past few years, and those guys aren't very good either. If Watkins goes down, which unfortunately is a very real possibility, we're basically boned at WR. All you have to do is take away McCoy and Clay and our passing game is done. This is easily one of the positions I'm the most worried about this year and I'm disappointed we haven't really addressed it. Well, there was a major run on WRs that began two picks after Lawson, but Rex needed a defender who could help his limp D from day 1.
John from Riverside Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 Well, there was a major run on WRs that began two picks after Lawson, but Rex needed a defender who could help his limp D from day 1. Remember that year we took Hardy? NONE of those wide receivers panned out......even the ones taken in the 1st round. The bills have put a lot of money into their scouting department......maybe they felt that Lawson even with the shoulder risk would end up being a better player the the WR's that were available? The strength of this draft was in its D....it has been talked about a LOT prior to the draft. I really think that people who are upset at our WR core are just not taking into effect how this team generates is points - Watkins is a bonafied 1 - Woods serves as a number 2 just fine - Teams that have 2 number 1's intend on THROWING to both those players.....this team is gonna run the ball a lot.....A LOT....as evidenced in the deep stable of RB's.....every single one of them can catch as well - Clay is a bonafied pass catcher as well - IMO I think people worry because 7-11 departed....who we basically found on scrap heap...the bills were really smart in resining Hankerson....and they have a couple of under the radar WRs as well Sure....if Watkins goes down we are hurting.....if Cinci loses their star WR THEY are hurting....etc etc.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 Should I keep banging the drum for Boldin? Especially with this news on Watkins. yes
GunnerBill Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 Sammy wouldn't be easily replaced. However, Boldin would be the next best thing. I think he will hang em up I really do. Don't think anyone has offered him near the money he wanted.
mannc Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 Remember that year we took Hardy? NONE of those wide receivers panned out......even the ones taken in the 1st round. The bills have put a lot of money into their scouting department......maybe they felt that Lawson even with the shoulder risk would end up being a better player the the WR's that were available? The strength of this draft was in its D....it has been talked about a LOT prior to the draft. I really think that people who are upset at our WR core are just not taking into effect how this team generates is points - Watkins is a bonafied 1 - Woods serves as a number 2 just fine - Teams that have 2 number 1's intend on THROWING to both those players.....this team is gonna run the ball a lot.....A LOT....as evidenced in the deep stable of RB's.....every single one of them can catch as well - Clay is a bonafied pass catcher as well - IMO I think people worry because 7-11 departed....who we basically found on scrap heap...the bills were really smart in resining Hankerson....and they have a couple of under the radar WRs as well Sure....if Watkins goes down we are hurting.....if Cinci loses their star WR THEY are hurting....etc etc. This is a valid point. Another no. 1 is a lot to invest at WR on a run-heavy team. However, despite the fact that he has not missed that many games, Sammy's health worries me, and the offense was absolutely putrid last year when he was out. If he misses more than a couple games this year, the season is pretty much down the tubes. Our WR corps is NOT a strength. And I think Treadwell and Doctson are going to be really good players. (Not sold on Fuller, though.)
P51 Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 The Bills WR situation is a disaster waiting to happen. What WR have you ever heard of that got better AFTER they put a screw in his foot? Not to mention Sammy's getting an injury list as long as a CVS receipt. And we have nothing else at WR. Robert Woods is just not very good. His catch rate is terrible, he's been ranked behind guys like Hogan and Hankerson in DVOA the past few years, and those guys aren't very good either. If Watkins goes down, which unfortunately is a very real possibility, we're basically boned at WR. All you have to do is take away McCoy and Clay and our passing game is done. This is easily one of the positions I'm the most worried about this year and I'm disappointed we haven't really addressed it. Julio Jones seems be doing just fine post Jones fracture surgery and to cross sport this point, Kevin Durant seems to have made it back from the surgery, Marvin Jones got a big pay day 2 years after having it, and Julian Edelman came back from it in season last year and posted a 100 yard receiving game in the play offs coming back from it... Its not a long term career altering injury and they didnt cut his foot off. The recovery rate for this surgery is about 100% from what I have read, its not microfracture surgery. This is consistent with the findings of Carreira et al who showed no significant difference in participation fol- lowing Jones fracture based on the NFL Combine database for a single team over a 6-year period. 2 Return to Play in National Football League Players After Operative Jones Fracture Treatment (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281683456_Return_to_Play_in_National_Football_League_Players_After_Operative_Jones_Fracture_Treatment [accessed May 19, 2016]. Woods reception rate went from 38% with Manuel to 72% with Orton in 2014, coincidence? Hmm... What are Taylor short comings passing the ball? Maybe the QB play/ability has something to do with the reception rate for Woods?? Just a thought.
John from Riverside Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 This is a valid point. Another no. 1 is a lot to invest at WR on a run-heavy team. However, despite the fact that he has not missed that many games, Sammy's health worries me, and the offense was absolutely putrid last year when he was out. If he misses more than a couple games this year, the season is pretty much down the tubes. Our WR corps is NOT a strength. And I think Treadwell and Doctson are going to be really good players. (Not sold on Fuller, though.) I dont know....I just think when it was time to make that 19th pick - They were not being offered enough to trade down (I absolutely was not opposed to trading down in this draft.....i just didnt want to trade out of the first and I had to get at least a late 2nd for doing so....it appears that Dallas was the only biter and they were trying to fleece us) - So that left D. Whaley to have to pick at 19......two things were apparent from last year....the O improved...the D regressed.....we lost Mario in free agency......and there was a young talented edge that dropped down the board due to shoulder concerns - Now if Im the GM...the next thing I am doing is weighing exactly what the injury is.....as opposed to how it will effective him over a 4 year rookie contract....and the possible production of that player....Shaq Lawson is a VERY talented player at a position of need. - It appears that if Shaq was gone....we would have taken RAGLAND....which would have been very predictable - There does not appear to be anything special about these rookie WR's this year....what if they dont turn out to be any better then Robert Woods? - One last thing....I think there is some talent on this bills roster that is not being talked about now....but will show itself once we get to camp. I know Bolden is out there but the free agent I think we should bring in is Freeney
TaskerTough Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 sup with Da'rick these days? srsly tho i think we have a more serviceable group than yalls willln to say. Give Dez Lewis a chance!
Chilly Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 Julio Jones seems be doing just fine post Jones fracture surgery and to cross sport this point, Kevin Durant seems to have made it back from the surgery, Marvin Jones got a big pay day 2 years after having it, and Julian Edelman came back from it in season last year and posted a 100 yard receiving game in the play offs coming back from it... Its not a long term career altering injury and they didnt cut his foot off. The recovery rate for this surgery is about 100% from what I have read, its not microfracture surgery. This is consistent with the findings of Carreira et al who showed no significant difference in participation fol- lowing Jones fracture based on the NFL Combine database for a single team over a 6-year period. 2 Return to Play in National Football League Players After Operative Jones Fracture Treatment (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281683456_Return_to_Play_in_National_Football_League_Players_After_Operative_Jones_Fracture_Treatment [accessed May 19, 2016]. Woods reception rate went from 38% with Manuel to 72% with Orton in 2014, coincidence? Hmm... What are Taylor short comings passing the ball? Maybe the QB play/ability has something to do with the reception rate for Woods?? Just a thought. Good info on the success rate for the surgery, appreciate the link. At least that makes me a little less concerned about Sammy. On Woods reception rates: 2013: 46.5% 2014: 62.5% 2015: 58.75% These aren't great. And neither are Woods' DYAR numbers: 2013: #72 (to be fair, the entire Bills WR group was bad, but a negative DVOA isn't great) 2014: #64, behind Chris Hogan 2015: #79, behind Chris Hogan
dave mcbride Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Remember that year we took Hardy? NONE of those wide receivers panned out......even the ones taken in the 1st round. The bills have put a lot of money into their scouting department......maybe they felt that Lawson even with the shoulder risk would end up being a better player the the WR's that were available? The strength of this draft was in its D....it has been talked about a LOT prior to the draft. I really think that people who are upset at our WR core are just not taking into effect how this team generates is points - Watkins is a bonafied 1 - Woods serves as a number 2 just fine - Teams that have 2 number 1's intend on THROWING to both those players.....this team is gonna run the ball a lot.....A LOT....as evidenced in the deep stable of RB's.....every single one of them can catch as well - Clay is a bonafied pass catcher as well - IMO I think people worry because 7-11 departed....who we basically found on scrap heap...the bills were really smart in resining Hankerson....and they have a couple of under the radar WRs as well Sure....if Watkins goes down we are hurting.....if Cinci loses their star WR THEY are hurting....etc etc. DeSean Jackson definitely panned out, but the others didn't.
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