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2016 Draft O-line thread

Beerball

By Beerball
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MarkyMannn Veteran

MarkyMannn

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He runs for his life because he only throws the football to receivers who are wide open, which doesn't happen on most plays. The pass blocking is fine. There were times where he had a comically long time to throw the football yesterday against a stout Jets front seven. This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's almost as if people only watch Bills games and assume that in every other game across the league, quarterbacks get to just stand back there and have all day to throw. That's not how football works. Relative to other lines in the league, the Bills' pass blocking is actually GOOD! Did anyone watch JJ Watt, say, yesterday? Did anyone watch JJ Watt against the Bills?

Could be about TT. I think he does tend to abandon the pass once his first read is covered. Probably what he needs to work on the most

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Astrobot Veteran

Astrobot

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It's only a matter of which makes the most sense for Whaley in RD 1-2-3.

 

RD1: TAYLOR DECKER. Zeke Elliott's bodyguard. Seasoned, a leader, tall guy, so needs knee bend. Kromer is good at developing that. At best, an LT, at worst, a Pro RT. Think Reiff.

RD2: GERMAIN IFEDI. Has experience at RG RT LT, has great size, likely boots Urbik off team.

RD2: JACK CONKLIN. I like him as well, but he's stricktly LT-RT, and may actually go earlier than Ifedi.

RD3: JOHN THEUS. Georgia guy. Watch his tape. Guy has classic OL form, really gets "in his chair".

 

Value picks include guys slipping to RD4. Bills have scouted OG LANDON TURNER, OG GREG PYKE, OC MAX TUERK, OC NICK MARTIN, OG CHRISTIAN WESTERMAN, and OG SPENCER DRANGO. Turner is an ideal fit for a pile-driving run game, and makes the most sense. Martin makes the least sense to me.

Astrobot Veteran

Astrobot

Posted
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@schadjoe

Laremy Tunsil has finalized his decision to enter the NFL Draft per source

He'll go Top Ten, for sure. I wouldn't be surprised if he made it to the Bucs at 9, but no further. Ronnie Stanley could go before Bosa as early as #1.

JM57 Veteran

JM57

Posted
Posted

Wouldn't mind Decker, especially since he just signed on to train with LeCharles Bentley

peterpan Veteran

peterpan

Posted
Posted

He runs for his life because he only throws the football to receivers who are wide open, which doesn't happen on most plays. The pass blocking is fine. There were times where he had a comically long time to throw the football yesterday against a stout Jets front seven. This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's almost as if people only watch Bills games and assume that in every other game across the league, quarterbacks get to just stand back there and have all day to throw. That's not how football works. Relative to other lines in the league, the Bills' pass blocking is actually GOOD! Did anyone watch JJ Watt, say, yesterday? Did anyone watch JJ Watt against the Bills?

You are right in many aspects however there where times this year where henderson cost us games. Just before his injury there 3-4 drives per game he was te sole killer ie holding on second down and then letting in instant pressure on third down and long, or jumping off sides, or getting a holding penalty on third down which negated a first down only for us to come up short on third and longer.

 

The glen-incognito-wood were great this year. Miller was a decent rookie and urbik out played miller IMO. Urbik may be the bet backup G in te league. But RT was a big liability. It improved with the waiver wire mills we picked up. That's how poorly Henderson and kujowere all year.

I think RT is the bills #1 need going into the draft

thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

Posted
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I would be fine with Jack Conklin as a 1st round pick.

 

I think he's a good player right now, but also has a lot of room to improve.

 

He's got nice footwork (although he does take too wide a set at times in pass protection), positions his body well to take advantage of his big frame, and excels at releasing from his initial assignment to work up to 2nd level defenders in the run game.

 

The deficiencies in his game are all correctable. His hand placement and usage is weak for a guy his size. He seems to concerned with not letting defenders get their hands inside on him, and it results in him not using his length to his advantage. You rarely see him press the defender or extend to create separation. A coach like Kromer can correct that.

 

Here's a nice example of everything I'm talking about from the Ohio State game this year:

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jack-conklin-vs-ohio-state-2015/

2020 Our Year For Sure Veteran

2020 Our Year For Sure

Posted
Posted

I know I sound like a broken record but the biggest fallacy in the history of this website- no hyperbole- is that the Bills offensive line always sucks. In 2012, the Bills were like top 2 in the league in yards per carry and least sacks allowed and to this day you will see people say stuff like, "well if Fred Jackson ever had an offensive line to run behind..." Just a few weeks ago, a prominent poster ranked Robert Woods ahead of Cordy Glenn as far as guys we need to re-sign.

 

Guys, the Bills offensive line as it stands right now in 2015 is ABOVE AVERAGE. It is good. Yes, they need a right tackle. I am not the least bit worried about their ability to address that. Sign a guy for $5 million per, draft a guy in the 3rd round, they'll be fine. Of course, this is all predicated on their ability to re-sign Glenn and Incognito, which I think they will.

I don't know if the Bills line is below average, average, above average. I do know that, like many things, it could be better.

 

I was at the Ralph the day we played the Giants. Lesean McCoy didn't play, and Karlos Williams carried it 18 times to the tune of 40 yards rushing and 2.2 per carry. I watched our offensive front get blown off the line of scrimmage repeatedly for 60 minutes by a defense that finished #32 in ypg. At some point a thought occurred...if we had come into that game loaded with Brandon Moore and Nick Mangold from their prime, might we have scored more than 10 points? Not something we could have realistically achieved of course. But in building our team moving forward...?

 

Roman's passion is in finding creative ways to run the ball. We do it all, inside, outside, zone, power, etc. He is somewhat less creative in the passing game. However the Bills have a tradition of great rushing offenses that goes back a very long time, and we had that again when McCoy was on the field this year. It can't be overstated. Our philosophy is to use our varied formations and blocking schemes to run the ball the very most that gaining first downs will allow us to run it, and minimize passing attempts. 15-20 passes seems to be where that lands us on a good day.

 

In and of itself, all this is fine. Tyrod is talented and smart but still has his limitations. Sometimes it seems as if he'll go a half of a game without once dropping back 1-2-3 and releasing on time. He's pretty good all things considered though, and we hope he can develop. But even if Tyrod can't do that and we have to move on, the next guy in line is not going to be Joe Montana. He's going to have his own set of limitations, and our strategy to compensate for those limitations will be the run-heavy philosophy above.

 

I ask you. If we're going to try to win games by running the ball about as much as anyone...with as complex a run game as anyone...and of course we want to be one of the BEST teams...does it not stand to reason that we should get as close to the best offensive line in football as we possibly can?

 

Rex had his success as a head coach, Roman as a coordinator not with a maybe-above-average offensive line. They lined up and drove people back from the point of attack week in and week out. I think we should work toward making the right side of our line as good as the left side, and try to find a gem of a center to draft too.

 

Urbik isn't a 'bad' player. I'd bet he could start for more than half the teams in the league at one of his three positions. But he could not start for either of those lines in my estimation. And since that time, it's only gotten more difficult to win games by running the ball.

JohnC All Pro

JohnC

Posted
Posted

I would be fine with Jack Conklin as a 1st round pick.

 

I think he's a good player right now, but also has a lot of room to improve.

 

He's got nice footwork (although he does take too wide a set at times in pass protection), positions his body well to take advantage of his big frame, and excels at releasing from his initial assignment to work up to 2nd level defenders in the run game.

 

The deficiencies in his game are all correctable. His hand placement and usage is weak for a guy his size. He seems to concerned with not letting defenders get their hands inside on him, and it results in him not using his length to his advantage. You rarely see him press the defender or extend to create separation. A coach like Kromer can correct that.

 

Here's a nice example of everything I'm talking about from the Ohio State game this year:

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jack-conklin-vs-ohio-state-2015/

In your estimation is Kujo a lost cause? Can he be moved to a guard position or be a utililty RT/LT for us? I get the sense that he is feet are too slow to and is too unathletic to ever be an effective lineman anywhere along the line. This Whaley miss really hurt us!

thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

Posted
Posted

In your estimation is Kujo a lost cause? Can he be moved to a guard position or be a utililty RT/LT for us? I get the sense that he is feet are too slow to and is too unathletic to ever be an effective lineman anywhere along the line. This Whaley miss really hurt us!

 

I'm not a good guy to ask about Kouandjio, since I never liked him in college and hated that pick. He always struck me as heavy-footed, stiff, angular, etc. I was a much bigger fan of Ja'Wuan James (who was already gone) and Morgan Moses (who went 20ish picks later) from that OT crop.

 

I will say, however, that I thought his brief appearances against Cincinnati and Jacksonville showed better than any game of Seantrel's this year, so I don't write him off entirely.

 

Guard, for me, is a non-starter with Cyrus. He's got enough trouble handling pass rushers in space where he knows which direction things are coming from and has a bit more time to set himself. On the interior, where things happen faster and pad level is even more important, I think he'd be doomed to failure.

 

I wouldn't call him a lost cause, as I do think there's hope that he can develop into a swing OT. I wouldn't depend upon him as a starter though; best to draft a guy that can compete there IMO.

JohnC All Pro

JohnC

Posted
Posted

 

I'm not a good guy to ask about Kouandjio, since I never liked him in college and hated that pick. He always struck me as heavy-footed, stiff, angular, etc. I was a much bigger fan of Ja'Wuan James (who was already gone) and Morgan Moses (who went 20ish picks later) from that OT crop.

 

I will say, however, that I thought his brief appearances against Cincinnati and Jacksonville showed better than any game of Seantrel's this year, so I don't write him off entirely.

 

Guard, for me, is a non-starter with Cyrus. He's got enough trouble handling pass rushers in space where he knows which direction things are coming from and has a bit more time to set himself. On the interior, where things happen faster and pad level is even more important, I think he'd be doomed to failure.

 

I wouldn't call him a lost cause, as I do think there's hope that he can develop into a swing OT. I wouldn't depend upon him as a starter though; best to draft a guy that can compete there IMO.

Good stuff. Thanks. What's telling is that the Marrone regime quickly gave up on him and that the Rex regime played a newly acquired practice squad player from another team over him.

 

I'm aware that Seantrel had some health issues but what troubles me most about him is his lack of focus. Too ofent he acts as if he is totally befuddled. That is not a good habit to have if you want your qb to have some longevity.

 

Sometimes scouts get too caught up with measurables and physical attributes and lose sight of the most important issue in evaluating a player i.e. Can he play!

GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

Posted
Posted (edited)

I know I sound like a broken record but the biggest fallacy in the history of this website- no hyperbole- is that the Bills offensive line always sucks. In 2012, the Bills were like top 2 in the league in yards per carry and least sacks allowed and to this day you will see people say stuff like, "well if Fred Jackson ever had an offensive line to run behind..." Just a few weeks ago, a prominent poster ranked Robert Woods ahead of Cordy Glenn as far as guys we need to re-sign.

 

Guys, the Bills offensive line as it stands right now in 2015 is ABOVE AVERAGE. It is good. Yes, they need a right tackle. I am not the least bit worried about their ability to address that. Sign a guy for $5 million per, draft a guy in the 3rd round, they'll be fine. Of course, this is all predicated on their ability to re-sign Glenn and Incognito, which I think they will.

 

I think the first half of the year they played just below average the second half of the year they were above average. They are one of the best run blocking lines in the league, especially pulling to create lanes to get Shady outside. The pass blocking was less consistent and is probably right about middle of the league. That is partly because Miller really struggled at times in pass protection in comparison to his excellent play in the run game. I think he will improve in year 2 - we knew what we were getting in Miller coming out and it was a good run blocker who needed polish in the passing game. Right tackle could stand to be upgraded. I think it is arguably the weakest starting spot on the team. However, I'd still be wary about going there in the first. For me if it isn't a Quarterback the first round pick should be an impact maker on defense.... I'm fine with drafting an OT but for me it is a need for rounds 3-4.

 

EDIT: Whilst I am no fan of Urbik particularly I wouldn't go Guard or Centre in this draft. I look around the league and as a backup swing interior man Urbik is one of the better ones. Take a flier on a couple of UFDA's in those spots, sure, but don't use a pick on them.

Edited by GunnerBill
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