GunnerBill Posted April 2, 2016 Posted April 2, 2016 Fixed No way I consider him worth the risk in the 2nd either. I have said previously trading back into the third after we have made our pick is as early as I'd go. If he is gone before that then so be it. He is a long shot to make it in the NFL in my opinion but if he does he will make it big because the tools are there.
thebandit27 Posted April 2, 2016 Posted April 2, 2016 So you're willing to use that excuse for Doughtery even though Vernon was in the exact same situation and didn't need an excuse? Does this make sense to you? When a backup QB comes in for a starter he's in a similar position. Since either of these will be backups, go with the spark plug IMHO. Admittedly I only saw that one game of Doughtery. But I saw Vernon pull similar stunts at Oregon as he did in that game. All college QBs are long shots to be NFL starters. Especially guys drafted where these guys will be. It's not an excuse; it's called not throwing the baby away with the bath water. You don't chuck an entire evaluation based on one game, let alone one game in those circumstances. Doughty's game is based heavily on timing ; getting the ball out quickly and accurately to his targets. It makes sense that he'd struggle playing in a different system with different teammates
mannc Posted April 2, 2016 Posted April 2, 2016 No way I consider him worth the risk in the 2nd either. I have said previously trading back into the third after we have made our pick is as early as I'd go. If he is gone before that then so be it. He is a long shot to make it in the NFL in my opinion but if he does he will make it big because the tools are there.You are probably right, but something tells me that Cardale won't make it to round 3. Despite his flaws, the upside is just too great. And there is that incredible run of games he put together during OSU's championship drive. Not many "project" QBs have that kind of thing on their resumes. I think he would be an ideal guy to groom behind Tyrod for a few years. And if he ever recaptures the magic, the sky is the limit.
YoloinOhio Posted April 2, 2016 Posted April 2, 2016 Analysis of Vernon Adams http://draftwire.usatoday.com/2016/04/02/2016-nfl-draft-scouting-report-oregon-qb-vernon-adams/
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 he will be an NFL HC someday if he wants to be. I believe that. He's such a great recruiter though, he may be the next great college coach and just stay put. My heart believes he will be the next HC at OSU whenever urban hangs it up, but there is a stronger possibility he gets entrenched at a destiny job, somewhere like LSU or Texas before that, and never leaves. Wouldn't OSU be a destiny job?
YoloinOhio Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 Wouldn't OSU be a destiny job? it is, but so are the other two I mentioned. So if he goes somewhere like that first (strong possibility) before the OSU job is ever open, would be much harder to hire him away than if the timing coincided with him still being at a stepping stone type job.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 it is, but so are the other two I mentioned. So if he goes somewhere like that first (strong possibility) before the OSU job is ever open, would be much harder to hire him away than if the timing coincided with him still being at a stepping stone type job. gotcha
reddogblitz Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 Analysis of Vernon Adams http://draftwire.usatoday.com/2016/04/02/2016-nfl-draft-scouting-report-oregon-qb-vernon-adams/ Thanks for posting this Yolo. Pretty close to my take. We wouldn't be drafting him to start anyway. Give the kid some time. Could be a really good backup. Come in, shake things up.
26CornerBlitz Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 Draft value tough to peg for QB Cardale Jones There's no debating Cardale Jones' physical traits and how they translate to the NFL game. A short college resume and being relegated to backup duty at Ohio State however, have NFL scouts working hard to put an appropriate draft grade on the talented quarterback.
26CornerBlitz Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 @ChrisBrownBills Hall of Famer Jim Kelly breaks down 2016 draft QB prospects Carson Wentz & Kevin Hogan. Watch - http://ow.ly/10gkFe #Bills
OldTimer1960 Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 Draft value tough to peg for QB Cardale Jones There's no debating Cardale Jones' physical traits and how they translate to the NFL game. A short college resume and being relegated to backup duty at Ohio State however, have NFL scouts working hard to put an appropriate draft grade on the talented quarterback. The guy that he lost his job to at Ohio State is not likely a NFL prospect at QB, so it would be hard for me to get on board with Cardale Jones as anything more than a late round prospect. I know that he "has all the physical tools", but frankly so does EJ Manuel and Manuel had a LOT more starting experience in college at a high level of competition and Manuel's college stats were better.
mannc Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 The guy that he lost his job to at Ohio State is not likely a NFL prospect at QB, so it would be hard for me to get on board with Cardale Jones as anything more than a late round prospect. I know that he "has all the physical tools", but frankly so does EJ Manuel and Manuel had a LOT more starting experience in college at a high level of competition and Manuel's college stats were better. How about this difference: In the biggest game of his college career (against Florida) EJ was cover-your-eyes awful. In the biggest games of his career, on the biggest stage imaginable, Cardale Jones was transcendent.
GunnerBill Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 In the biggest games of his career, on the biggest stage imaginable, Cardale Jones was transcendent. Transcendent? He was good but let's stay in reality for a moment. The book on Jones is at best an incomplete - that is why a lot of us don't want to spend an early pick. Could there be something there? Sure there could... but it is a huge projection at this stage. Almost no round between 2 and 5 would shock me for Cardale. But if a team is going to pull the trigger early in that range I'd rather it not be us.
OldTimer1960 Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 How about this difference: In the biggest game of his college career (against Florida) EJ was cover-your-eyes awful. In the biggest games of his career, on the biggest stage imaginable, Cardale Jones was transcendent. Transcendent? First, the opposition had almost no game film on Jones and next, would it surprise you if the opponent's game plan was to take away the run game and make the 3rd string QB beat them? That doesn't wow me much. WRT Manuel, I am not saying that he wasn't a bit of a reach in round 1, but I am saying that he has a similar tool set to Jones and produced a LOT more in college than Jones did.
mannc Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 Transcendent? First, the opposition had almost no game film on Jones and next, would it surprise you if the opponent's game plan was to take away the run game and make the 3rd string QB beat them? That doesn't wow me much. WRT Manuel, I am not saying that he wasn't a bit of a reach in round 1, but I am saying that he has a similar tool set to Jones and produced a LOT more in college than Jones did. If Jones was not transcendent in that three-game run, then he wasn't far from it. He threw the ball to all parts of the field with great accuracy, made sound decisions with the ball and was uncanny in his ability to pick up key first downs by scrambling and by designed runs. And this was against three of the top teams the country, including a heavily favored Alabama team with a top-tier defense. I realize that Manuel had a much more extensive body of work, but he played for an FSU team that was stacked with NFL talent and made a living beating the snot out of teams like Wake Forest, NC State, etc. When he played against a real defense in a game that mattered, he could barely complete a forward pass.
26CornerBlitz Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 @AndyTWCNews Our latest #NFLDraft prospect profile PSU QB Christian Hackenberg: physical tools, big concerns http://fw.to/W9JlQ6b @TWCNewsBuffalo
GunnerBill Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 If Jones was not transcendent in that three-game run, then he wasn't far from it. He threw the ball to all parts of the field with great accuracy But last season when teams had tape and were able to gameplan against him he looked much less accurate. I don't hate Jones I am not even against the Bills picking him but I don't want a 1st or 2nd on him.... our 3rd would make me a little uneasy any pick after that I am good with.
YoloinOhio Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 (edited) The guy that he lost his job to at Ohio State is not likely a NFL prospect at QB, so it would be hard for me to get on board with Cardale Jones as anything more than a late round prospect. I know that he "has all the physical tools", but frankly so does EJ Manuel and Manuel had a LOT more starting experience in college at a high level of competition and Manuel's college stats were better. i don't know what round he will go in or how successful he will be in the NFL. But I do know that the reason he lost the starting job last year has nothing to do with how good of an NFL prospect JT Barrett is, because they do not run anything close to an NFL offense. Barrett was a better fit to run the RPO. He was hand picked to run that offense. Cardale was not even recruited by the current staff for the current system. He's a pro style QB with some mobility. Meyer wants to run his offense first and foremost with a running QB and when it didn't mesh with Cardale's strengths, he didn't feel feel he needed to try to make it work anymore with Barrett healthy. Edited April 4, 2016 by YoloinOhio
OldTimer1960 Posted April 5, 2016 Posted April 5, 2016 But last season when teams had tape and were able to gameplan against him he looked much less accurate. I don't hate Jones I am not even against the Bills picking him but I don't want a 1st or 2nd on him.... our 3rd would make me a little uneasy any pick after that I am good with. I am right on the same page as you. Uneasy if the Bills used a 3rd round pick on Jones, but fine if they were to invest their 4th or later in him.
OldTimer1960 Posted April 5, 2016 Posted April 5, 2016 i don't know what round he will go in or how successful he will be in the NFL. But I do know that the reason he lost the starting job last year has nothing to do with how good of an NFL prospect JT Barrett is, because they do not run anything close to an NFL offense. Barrett was a better fit to run the RPO. He was hand picked to run that offense. Cardale was not even recruited by the current staff for the current system. He's a pro style QB with some mobility. Meyer wants to run his offense first and foremost with a running QB and when it didn't mesh with Cardale's strengths, he didn't feel feel he needed to try to make it work anymore with Barrett healthy. I understand and accept that this is a mitigating argument for Jones, but all that it says is the deck was stacked against him. It does not explain why he struggled in his starts this year. He had starts against some good opponents, but also against Northern Illinois, Hawaii, Western Michigan, Indiana, 3-9 Maryland and a struggling Penn State program. In his great run in 2014, he had Ezekial Elliot, Devin Smith (WR) and Michael Thomas (WR) in his arsenal. In 2015, he had Elliot, Michael Thomas and Braxton Miller - all of whom will likely be top 3 round picks in this year's draft. I am not saying that Cardale Jones can't possibly make it as a NFL QB, but I am saying that the body of evidence suggests that he is a long-shot, regardless of his physical tools.
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