Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 I saw Hogan play a ton of games over the last four years and I can't make up my mind about him. He's smart,, has a big, durable body and is surprisingly mobile. Has sort of a funny throwing motion that makes it look like he's pushing the ball. Not the strongest arm, but he gets the job done. I don't think he's a future franchise QB, but could be a 10-year pro in the mold of say Ryan Fitzpatrick, Frank Reich or Matt Hasselback. Not a bad guy to draft if you are looking to groom a back-up QB who can win some games when your starter goes down. yes but I think we need a backup who will eventually be the guy. TT is a running QB and don't believe he will become the Elite QB we need to win the Super Bowl. So I wouldn't bother with true backup type of guys.
GunnerBill Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) yes but I think we need a backup who will eventually be the guy. TT is a running QB and don't believe he will become the Elite QB we need to win the Super Bowl. So I wouldn't bother with true backup type of guys. I don't think any of us are saying if someone who you think can be elite is there at one of their first 2 or 3 picks they shouldn't pull the trigger because they are "waiting for Hogan" but I don't at the moment see a guy this year who is worth reaching for with a high pick so then you start looking at guys you can take as developmental picks further down who could come in and maybe be a solid #2 or even end up as competition for Tyrod. They are the circumstances in which some of us are advocating Hogan. I'm more than happy if they have already found a guy who represents value in one of the first 2 or 3 rounds who they think could be elite. EDIT: Also you don't need an elite QB to win the Superbowl. You need a franchise QB.... can Tyrod make it into that category? Maybe not but maybe so. I think they should take a QB this year regardless whether it is a guy they have really high hopes for in the first couple of rounds or a Hogan like safe developmental pick in the mid rounds. Edited January 4, 2016 by GunnerBill
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 Good stuff from Bandit. I am a Doughty fan if he's there in RD2, even [dare I say this] over Chad Kelly. I've seen where Hogan makes it to RD7 with the concerns GunnerBill just mentioned. With Treadwell declaring is there any word on Kelly coming out?
mannc Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 yes but I think we need a backup who will eventually be the guy. TT is a running QB and don't believe he will become the Elite QB we need to win the Super Bowl. So I wouldn't bother with true backup type of guys. That's a valid point, which is why I would also love to see the Bills pull the trigger on someone like Cardale Jones--a raw prospect but with huge upside down the road.
BobbyC81 Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Sweet Christ no. Hackenbarf? When discussing QBs I don't see this name brought up in conversations: Jacoby Brissett. Is he eligible for next years draft? NFL.com did a team by team analysis of draft needs and possible selections. Brissett was listed as one of the QBs to be considered. Maybe I missed it but Kelly can return to Ole Miss. They should be looking early. Not in a spot they were in when drafted Manuel 3 rounds before they should've, but if a guy is available in round 1 they think can turn the franchise around they need to pull the trigger. Based on Kelly's past, I think he should return to Ole Miss for another year, which means he probably won't.
ALF Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 The Browns have been so horrible at first-round picks lately (Taylor, Richardson, Weeden, Mingo, Gilbert, Manziel) that I hate to sentence Jared Goff or Paxton Lynch to a life on the Lake, but draw straws, gentlemen. Short one goes to the Browns. Tennessee has the first pick and could get a package of picks to move down with any number of QB-needy teams (San Francisco at seven, Chicago at 11, Philadelphia at 13, St. Louis at 15). http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/01/04/nfl-coaches-fired-wild-card-schedule-week-17-peyton-manning
PlayoffsPlease Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 He's referring to projections provided by independent scouting services. Even worse, if the Bills are passing on competent QBs in the draft because they are relying on independent scouting services in their drafting decisions.
SoFFacet Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Even worse, if the Bills are passing on competent QBs in the draft because they are relying on independent scouting services in their drafting decisions. You're really not getting it. There is widespread consensus among teams and independent sources regarding the projected draft position of most players. If a team picks a player ahead of projection, that doesn't mean the projection was bad.
Andrew Son Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 The Hogan to Hogan connection would be deadly
Section242 Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) The Browns have been so horrible at first-round picks lately (Taylor, Richardson, Weeden, Mingo, Gilbert, Manziel) that I hate to sentence Jared Goff or Paxton Lynch to a life on the Lake, but draw straws, gentlemen. Short one goes to the Browns. Tennessee has the first pick and could get a package of picks to move down with any number of QB-needy teams (San Francisco at seven, Chicago at 11, Philadelphia at 13, St. Louis at 15). http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/01/04/nfl-coaches-fired-wild-card-schedule-week-17-peyton-manning If Chicago is considered a QB needy team trading up for Goff then the Bills are at least that. Edited January 6, 2016 by Section242
PlayoffsPlease Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 You're really not getting it. There is widespread consensus among teams and independent sources regarding the projected draft position of most players. If a team picks a player ahead of projection, that doesn't mean the projection was bad. It means the projection was wrong. When an independent source says to pass on Russell Wilson because he will be there the next round, so you pick TJ Graham then the projection was bad.
SoFFacet Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 It means the projection was wrong. When an independent source says to pass on Russell Wilson because he will be there the next round, so you pick TJ Graham then the projection was bad. Thinking the projection was bad is purely retrospective thinking and therefore useless. Picking Graham instead of Wilson was a bad decision, not a bad projection.
John from Riverside Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 If the jets can get Bryce Petty in the 3rd round there has to SOME QB worth grooming that can be got from this draft at that slot as well We need those first 2 picks for LB RT
LeGOATski Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 If the jets can get Bryce Petty in the 3rd round there has to SOME QB worth grooming that can be got from this draft at that slot as well We need those first 2 picks for LB RT 1. Myles Jack 2. OT or WR 3. Dak Prescott
Chandler#81 Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 When you have a solid YOUNG starting QB, you don't discuss drafting QB. You talk about finding a journeyman backup. The only folks who weren't impressed with Tyrod this year are Bills fans. We have our QB, gentlemen. We need a backup and that won't come in the draft. We need RT, Safety, LB, and D-line (and maybe WR depending on what happens) far more. We can't waste a draft pick on ANOTHER experiment at QB. TT is our starting QB, like it or not. And he's too young to be drafting his backup. Hey! There's no room here for intelligent discourse. Get outta here with that crap. (BTW, couldn't agree more!)
thebandit27 Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) A few more write-ups I finished up last night... In each case, I picked the video of the player’s game that came against the toughest defense. Paxton Lynch – Memphis, 6’7”, 245 lbs, RS Junior http://draftbreakdown.com/video/paxton-lynch-vs-temple-2015/ Notes (time in video relating to note): - General comments: If measurable were everything, Lynch would be other-worldly. He’s a monster. His release time is superb, but he seems to sacrifice ball placement for quick delivery. I also haven’t seen him throw the ball down the field as much as I’d like to, especially considering his arm strength. His ¾ release isn’t a deal-breaker, but he’ll have to work to re-point it in the pros. - (0:24) fast release to the sticks; efficiently moving the ball - (1:10) this is the type of play that bothers me. The easy money is there, but he rushes the release and flat out misses an easy first down. - (1:25) exact opposite of the last play. He takes the extra ¼ second and delivers the ball in stride, giving the WR a chance to make a play. - (1:36) lots of zip on that throw into a tight window. Arm talent is there. - (1:49) nice throw on the sprint play; shows the ability to throw while on the move - (2:22) nails the comeback despite getting hit. - (2:45) doesn’t seem to see the field really well. Takes the short boundary throw instead of the WR coming free on the drag route over the middle, which is a shame, because he had time in the pocket and had looked off the short zone defender. - (4:20) really nice pocket feel here. Senses the pressure, climbs to safety, and keeps his eyes up…of course, it’d be nice if he didn’t turf the ball on the throw. - (5:52) I’m bothered by this play; his first read is the near slot WR, who draws 2 zone defenders. The far slot option is left all alone, but he doesn’t get off his first read to see him. Lost opportunity. Summary: I picked this game because Temple was the best defense Lynch faced, and to me, it was a microcosm of his QB play: tons of lateral throws, quick-hitters, very little downfield passing attack, and mostly a one-read-and-go QB. The South Florida and Houston games (next-best defensive units he faced) were a bit better in this regard, but I wonder why a QB with his arm doesn’t seem to stretch the field more. It’s fine to make your money on the short throws, as a lot of NFL QBs do that, but it’ll take NFL DCs all of 3 games to start jamming his targets at the LOS if he can’t threaten them over the top. I bet he ends up a 1st-round pick on potential, but if I’m an NFL GM, I’m staying away until Round 3. Connor Cook – Michigan State, 6’4”, 220 lbs, Senior http://draftbreakdown.com/video/connor-cook-vs-penn-state-2015/ Notes (time in video relating to note): - General comments: He’s got some raw material for sure, but there’s a lot that needs to be cleaned up. He has a lot of wasted movement in his upper body, and he gets a bit sloppy with his back foot on his follow-through, which causes some balls to sail (especially boundary throws). He also needs to protect the football better. On the plus side, he scans the whole field and seems to process things quickly. - (0:12) gets loose with his upper body and exposes the ball during his drop-back - (0:26) gets the ball out quickly on the screen; better ball placement expected - (0:52) love this play—gets through the play-fake quickly and delivers an accurate deep strike. Ball’s gone in under 4 seconds, which is nice on a PA deep throw. - (1:30) there’s the loose footwork again - (2:10) doesn’t set his feet to throw, and it costs his receiver a YAC opportunity - (2:50) this is a small play, but I like it. He climbs forward in the pocket and uses his safety valve, picking up 7 yards on 2nd-and-10. - (3:17) maddening and impressive at the same time; he doesn’t drive off his plant foot at the back of his drop, which forces him to muscle the ball to the boundary. That said, it’s a big-time throw that flashes arm talent. - (3:51) fits it into a very tight window…maybe too tight. I think that ball gets picked in the NFL. - (4:46) a couple of really nice play-fakes back-to-back. Summary: This was my favorite of Cook’s games that I watched this year. What I like is that the positives he has (pocket presence, quick decision-making, field vision) can’t be taught, and the deficiencies (wasted movement, sloppy footwork, ball security) can. I think the end of round 1 is a great landing spot for him—a team like Arizona could afford to give him a year or two behind Carson Palmer for Bruce Arians to coach him up. Cody Kessler – USC, 6’1”, 215 lbs, Senior http://draftbreakdown.com/video/cody-kessler-vs-washington-2015/ Notes (time in video relating to note): - General comments: Kessler doesn’t have the prototypical size for an NFL QB, but he’s got great mechanics and is smart. My main concern with him is arm strength, because he doesn’t drive the ball on the boundary patterns well. - (0:17) late throw to the sideline…only guys with an elite arm can make up for a late throw to this area of the field - (0:32) this ball just takes way too long to get there. Good read, good decision; bad throw. - (1:23) does a good job of putting the defender in conflict, but then makes a spot throw instead of driving the ball into the receiver. I think that’s another place where the lack of arm strength manifests itself. - (1:39) relative lack of height hurts him here; doesn’t see the DB creeping on the screen. - (2:20) really nice job getting the ball out quickly and in a good spot for the WR to make a play. - (3:04) this is the kind of throw that makes me think he’s got NFL potential. He gets through his drop quickly and fires a nice timing pass into the soft belly of the zone. - (4:00) back-to-back plays where he shows ability to feel pressure and climb upfield looking to make a play. - (4:19) another very nice timing throw; this is really what he does well. - (4:44) this play is music. Keeps his eyes downfield, extends the play, makes a pinpoint throw. - (7:08) this play upsets me…game on the line, you simply need to give someone a chance to make a play kid. Can’t take that sack. Summary: I don’t want to write the kid off completely, but I think he needs to be in a timing-based passing game to succeed. There are simply too many routes and areas of the field that he doesn’t show the ability to hit. No seam routes, late boundary throws, very little over-the-top, etc. If he can get himself into a Hue Jackson-style offense where he can get the ball out fast to YAC guys and throw out of a dozen different formations, then he’s got a shot. He’s a 4th/5th round guy for me. Edited January 8, 2016 by thebandit27
reddogblitz Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 RD5 QB. Yes, I'm a Tyrod Taylor guy, but when Tyrod went out, we (EJ) made stupid errors. What stupid errors did EJ make in the Bungles game? Our D stunk up the joint and gave up 34 points. EJ threw for 268 with 1 TD and 1 INT and ran for 22 yards with 100% red zone efficiency. EJ doesn't play defense. We scored 21 points which was more than we scored in the 2 previous games to defensive behemoths like Tennessee and New York Giants with almighty Tyrod at the helm.
Section242 Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 1. Myles Jack 2. OT or WR 3. Dak Prescott Jack would be great but I don't think he makes it out of top 10. WR a definite need. Prescott I would hate but. A qb in first 3 rds is a need.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Jack would be great but I don't think he makes it out of top 10. WR a definite need. Prescott I would hate but. A qb in first 3 rds is a need. just say no to Dak
LeGOATski Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Jack would be great but I don't think he makes it out of top 10. WR a definite need. Prescott I would hate but. A qb in first 3 rds is a need. His injury could cause bad teams to stay away, but you're probably right. The draft stuff and pro day will probably ease the minds. He's an awesome player, though. just say no to Dak Start coming to terms with this now...just in case.
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