YoloinOhio Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Ayyyy Mayock: Carson Wentz has ceiling similar to Andrew Luck
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Ayyyy Mayock: Carson Wentz has ceiling similar to Andrew Luck Ceilings are kinda silly. A lot of guys have high ceilings but it's rare that they come close to reaching them. Also, Mayock had Blaine Gabbert ranked high than Cam Newton. It must have been about ceiling. Never forget. Really?? I thought Hogan looked very good this year. As you have pointed out, he had a strong supporting cast and great coaching, but still . . . I did not see EJ play much in college. I know he put up some pretty good numbers, but the level of competition was not great. And in the biggest game of his senior year, against Florida (one of the few games I saw), he was cover-your-eyes awful. He looked absolutely flustered and completely hopeless, kind of like how he looked against Houston last year. That Florida game was awful but it was by far the worst game of the year. Is the Big 10 really that much superior than the ACC? CH had 156 or less yards passing in 7 games this year. Still, like EJ, he has intrigue because of the physical skills. Honestly, unlike EJ, his best shot to succeed is to fall in the draft. He won't be rushed on the field and been given up after a few games. As strange as it sounds, falling in the draft might be the best thing for Qbs in the long run.
Astrobot Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Remember Mayock ranking Gabbert "Top 1" in the draft. LOL! Puts this all in perspective. Some GMs are going to like Goff's tight spiral for their outdoor conditions. Others will like Lynch's "size you can't teach". I bet somebody in RD3 will like Dak Prescott's mobility (I hope it's nobody before RD3#80). We're throwing darts blindfolded.
reddogblitz Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 (edited) Vernon Adams Jr. is our man. We should take him in the 3rd or 4th to make sure we get him. The dude's magic. when he's in the team rocks, when he goes out the team sucks. He's like Flutie in that regard. You can't teach that. You either got it or you don't, and he's got it. Let's just make sure we got it by drafting him. Edited February 23, 2016 by reddogblitz
Astrobot Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Vernon Adams Jr. is our man. We should take him in the 3rd or 4th to make sure we get him. The dude's magic. when he's in the team rocks, when he goes out the team sucks. He's like Flutie in that regard. You can't teach that. You either got it or you don't, and he's got it. Let's just make sure we got it by drafting him. I'm not all that sure he'll be drafted. Maybe a 7th rounder, compensatory?
mannc Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Ceilings are kinda silly. A lot of guys have high ceilings but it's rare that they come close to reaching them. Also, Mayock had Blaine Gabbert ranked high than Cam Newton. It must have been about ceiling. Never forget. That Florida game was awful but it was by far the worst game of the year. Is the Big 10 really that much superior than the ACC? CH had 156 or less yards passing in 7 games this year. Still, like EJ, he has intrigue because of the physical skills. Honestly, unlike EJ, his best shot to succeed is to fall in the draft. He won't be rushed on the field and been given up after a few games. As strange as it sounds, falling in the draft might be the best thing for Qbs in the long run. I take back what I said. I thought you were referring to Kevin Hogan, not Hackenburg. (Don't ask why I thought CH referred to Hogan; I was probably thinking of Chris.) Your reference to the Big 10 made me realize my mistake. I stand by what I said about EJ, though. And the ACC was worse a few years ago when he was there than it is now..
JohnC Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 I mean it's one guy's opinion. Manuel was picked in the 1st because of all of his physical and mental tools. It's the same reason people might like CH. Manuel never had the hype of CH but he never looked as bad in college as CH has the last 2 years. The best thing for CH will be to fall in the draft and have a chance to develop. Although Manuel did have physical tools he never should have been picked in the first round. That was the indirect point that the scout was making when referencing Manuel's draft year and the qbs in that draft. The same point is made about Hack. He does have tools and in his freshman year he exhibited potential. But overall he isn't a first round value. I am not anti-Manuel. He has been given opportunities to play probably before he was ready to play. But the limitations attributed to him by many scouts such as his erratic accuracy and his ability to read the defenses have so far proved to be true. Would I take a chance on Hack in the first two rounds? I would say no. But I wouldn't be adverse to do so in the third round. Just my opinion.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Although Manuel did have physical tools he never should have been picked in the first round. That was the indirect point that the scout was making when referencing Manuel's draft year and the qbs in that draft. The same point is made about Hack. He does have tools and in his freshman year he exhibited potential. But overall he isn't a first round value. I am not anti-Manuel. He has been given opportunities to play probably before he was ready to play. But the limitations attributed to him by many scouts such as his erratic accuracy and his ability to read the defenses have so far proved to be true. Would I take a chance on Hack in the first two rounds? I would say no. But I wouldn't be adverse to do so in the third round. Just my opinion. I agree with this. I said this earlier but unless you're Luck or Manning, getting picked in the 1st round might be the worst thing to happen to your career. Despite what anyone thinks about EJ's talent, I think most reasonable folks can agree we had a piss poor plan of developing him. I like some things Taylor does but I have doubts of him being a long term franchise guy. But this is absolutely the perfect time to draft a development guy. I think we have legit offensive coaching and I would personally take the high upside guy later in the draft. I'm not a fan of CH but I'd rather take him than Hogan because I think his "ceiling" might be higher. And I think the Wentz hype is horrible for him. He is going to get drafted really high by a bad team and have unreal expectations. I take back what I said. I thought you were referring to Kevin Hogan, not Hackenburg. (Don't ask why I thought CH referred to Hogan; I was probably thinking of Chris.) Your reference to the Big 10 made me realize my mistake. I stand by what I said about EJ, though. And the ACC was worse a few years ago when he was there than it is now.. No worries. I think the Pac 12 is a joke defensively though. I think Hogan is the better player than CH but later in the draft, I can see teams liking CH's upside better than Hogan. Hogan is a safe, whatever pick. CH is a potential lottery ticket (I still don't think he is that good). Vernon Adams Jr. is our man. We should take him in the 3rd or 4th to make sure we get him. The dude's magic. when he's in the team rocks, when he goes out the team sucks. He's like Flutie in that regard. You can't teach that. You either got it or you don't, and he's got it. Let's just make sure we got it by drafting him. I hate when people do it but I just don't trust Oregon Qbs at all. Too gimmicky. And the jury is still out on Mariota but he is like 5 inches bigger and a better athlete than Adams. I won't touch him until the 4th or later. I won't hate it though. Remember Mayock ranking Gabbert "Top 1" in the draft. LOL! Puts this all in perspective. Some GMs are going to like Goff's tight spiral for their outdoor conditions. Others will like Lynch's "size you can't teach". I bet somebody in RD3 will like Dak Prescott's mobility (I hope it's nobody before RD3#80). We're throwing darts blindfolded. Haha. It's so true. No one knows with Qbs.
JohnC Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 I agree with this. I said this earlier but unless you're Luck or Manning, getting picked in the 1st round might be the worst thing to happen to your career. Despite what anyone thinks about EJ's talent, I think most reasonable folks can agree we had a piss poor plan of developing him. I like some things Taylor does but I have doubts of him being a long term franchise guy. But this is absolutely the perfect time to draft a development guy. I think we have legit offensive coaching and I would personally take the high upside guy later in the draft. I'm not a fan of CH but I'd rather take him than Hogan because I think his "ceiling" might be higher. One of the most fascinating things to watch this upcoming season is Taylor's development. I believe that we should know for sure this year whether he is going to be a legitimate franchise qb or not. The coaching staffed handled him smartly last year. They were cautious and conservative with him. Not only was that the right thing to do for the offense but it was the right thing to do for his development. I do have a slightly different take with you on selecting development type qbs. My view is that if you feel your qb position is inadequately staffed then be proactive and draft the best qb you can instead of waiting at a lower round to select your more long shot developmental type qb. For the most part higher drafted qbs do better than lower drafted qbs. Not always, but I would rather have favorable odds than lower odds.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 One of the most fascinating things to watch this upcoming season is Taylor's development. I believe that we should know for sure this year whether he is going to be a legitimate franchise qb or not. The coaching staffed handled him smartly last year. They were cautious and conservative with him. Not only was that the right thing to do for the offense but it was the right thing to do for his development. I do have a slightly different take with you on selecting development type qbs. My view is that if you feel your qb position is inadequately staffed then be proactive and draft the best qb you can instead of waiting at a lower round to select your more long shot developmental type qb. For the most part higher drafted qbs do better than lower drafted qbs. Not always, but I would rather have favorable odds than lower odds. Oh, don't get me wrong. If there is a guy you think is a franchise qb at 19, id pick him in a second. I don't think there is a guy like that who will be there at 19.
JohnC Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Oh, don't get me wrong. If there is a guy you think is a franchise qb at 19, id pick him in a second. I don't think there is a guy like that who will be there at 19. Conner Cook????
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Conner Cook???? Not a Cool fan because he seems to have that Losman/ Cutler/ Manziel feel. I think the only guys I would take in the 1st are Goff or Wentz. I was wildly underwhelmed by Lynch.
JohnC Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 Not a Cool fan because he seems to have that Losman/ Cutler/ Manziel feel. I think the only guys I would take in the 1st are Goff or Wentz. I was wildly underwhelmed by Lynch. I'm a little more positive about Cook than you are. His receivers last year were collectively mediocre. Am I sure about him? No. What intrigues me is that I saw him make some nice pro throws. There are throws that you either have the ability to make or you don't. Losman is a qb that I had high hopes for when we selected. However, he is the embodiment that having physical tools isn't a guarantee of having success in the pro ranks. You either have the vision or you don't. You can improve that critical attribute with work up to a point.
Section242 Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 Ceilings are kinda silly. A lot of guys have high ceilings but it's rare that they come close to reaching them. Also, Mayock had Blaine Gabbert ranked high than Cam Newton. It must have been about ceiling. Never forget. That Florida game was awful but it was by far the worst game of the year. Is the Big 10 really that much superior than the ACC? CH had 156 or less yards passing in 7 games this year. Still, like EJ, he has intrigue because of the physical skills. Honestly, unlike EJ, his best shot to succeed is to fall in the draft. He won't be rushed on the field and been given up after a few games. As strange as it sounds, falling in the draft might be the best thing for Qbs in the long run. Depends where a guy falls. If he falls like Jimmy Clausen he'll never get a shot. If he falls like Aaron Rodger than perfect. E.J. was over drafted badly. We were starved for an early QB and the Bills were in a no win situation. If one of the top 3 QB's are available when the Bills pick in the 1st i'd take one. Ceilings are funny JaMarcus Russell and Jake Locker are two that come to mind who had huge ceilings. Other positions the floor is higher than the floor for QB's. If it's win or jobs are lost then I wouldn't expect the Bills to take a QB. If they wanna take one in the 4th or 5th fine. I think they've got a better opportunity to take a position player that contributes in later rounds than a QB who turns out to be the "savior."
JohnC Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) Depends where a guy falls. If he falls like Jimmy Clausen he'll never get a shot. If he falls like Aaron Rodger than perfect. E.J. was over drafted badly. We were starved for an early QB and the Bills were in a no win situation. If one of the top 3 QB's are available when the Bills pick in the 1st i'd take one. Ceilings are funny JaMarcus Russell and Jake Locker are two that come to mind who had huge ceilings. Other positions the floor is higher than the floor for QB's. If it's win or jobs are lost then I wouldn't expect the Bills to take a QB. If they wanna take one in the 4th or 5th fine. I think they've got a better opportunity to take a position player that contributes in later rounds than a QB who turns out to be the "savior." I agree with your view on us not drafting a qb in the first or second round. The pressure is on Rex and to a lesser degree on Whaley to win this season. Last year was a major disappointment for the defense. That is going to be the primary focus of the top of the draft for us. When our draft turn comes up the top two qb prospects will probably be off the board. If we took the third rated qb, assuming he was still on the board, he would still be unlikely to unseat TT. What happened last year had a profound affect to this year's approach to the offseason. If the defense had lived up to its expectations last year Whaley would have a lot more flexibility in addressing other critical needs such as RT, second receiver and safety positions with high draft picks.. He would also be in a better position to draft a qb with a high pick if he felt that there was one who appealed to him. You only have so many fingers to plug holes that you didn't expect to exist. If you also consider that our cap situation is tight (but still manageable) I highly doubt that the Bills would take a qb in the first or second round to sit behind the veteran starter. Edited February 24, 2016 by JohnC
Section242 Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 I agree with your view on us not drafting a qb in the first or second round. The pressure is on Rex and to a lesser degree on Whaley to win this season. Last year was a major disappointment for the defense. That is going to be the primary focus of the top of the draft for us. When our draft turn comes up the top two qb prospects will probably be off the board. If we took the third rated qb, assuming he was still on the board, he would still be unlikely to unseat TT. What happened last year had a profound affect to this year's approach to the offseason. If the defense had lived up to its expectations last year Whaley would have a lot more flexibility in addressing other critical needs such as RT, second receiver and safety positions with high draft picks.. He would also be in a better position to draft a qb with a high pick if he felt that there was one who appealed to him. You only have so many fingers to plug holes that you didn't expect to exist. If you also consider that our cap situation is tight (but still manageable) I highly doubt that the Bills would take a qb in the first or second round to sit behind the veteran starter. I would take Lynch if he were available at 19.
JohnC Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 I would take Lynch if he were available at 19. I have heard Whaley speak on more than one occasion that he desperately wanted to make the playoffs and use it as a stepping board for bigger things. Last year on the radio show he wasn't afraid to publicly say that he felt that the team that was about to start the season was a playoff caliber team. He had to be disappointed how the defense performed under Rex, especially when he put so much effort in upgrading the offense with the acquisition of Clay, Incongito and by luck Taylor. He also used a third round pick for another lineman in Miller. The point that I'm making is that the brain trust believes that it is close to getting over the playoff drought hump and is in a position to qualify for the playoffs, even as a wildcard team. I just don't see Whaley using either of his first two picks for a qb.
26CornerBlitz Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 @NFL_CFB Michigan State's Connor Cook defends character, believes he can be top QB in draft --> http://bit.ly/1Rqs0a9
26CornerBlitz Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 Seems as if the Kevin Hogan rumors are true. @SalSports Stanford QB Kevin Hogan said he met with the Bills "last night at the train station." Not uncommon for prospects to meet there informally
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