Coach Tuesday Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 So please stop saying it. They're like ex-girlfriends who had flaws that we now overlook because our current girlfriend has become a nightmare. But they're not coming back. Never, ever. Get it through your heads. Schwartz's value has never been higher - thanks to Rex Ryan. No way he's coming back here to let Ryan destroy his value. Pettine and Ryan never really got along, and Pettine doesn't need to crawl back into Ryan's shadow. He's already built his reputation, whatever it's worth. I'm sick and tired of reading posts that talk about bringing back Pettine or Schwartz. They're stupid and they're cluttering up the board. From now on, each poster who posts about bringing back Pettine or Schwartz owes me $1. I'll come find you. Stop the madness. They're never coming back.
Blokestradamus Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 I'd happily give you $10, small price to pay for annoying someone on the internet. You're spot on though. People don't seem to grasp that Rex is the DC, not Thurman. The placeholder might change but the scheme won't. It'll merely be another puppet for the illusion of change.
YoloinOhio Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 I totally agree on Schwartz. Zero point Zero. I think there is a slightly better chance with Pettine, but still would be very surprised if it happened.
CardinalScotts Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 If Schwartz had the same injury problems last year we had this year we aren't even a top15 defense.
The Big Cat Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 I totally agree on Schwartz. Zero point Zero. I think there is a slightly better chance with Pettine, but still would be very surprised if it happened. Exactly. Could the Bills trade a decade's worth of first and second round picks for Aaron Rodgers? Probably. Will I be pissed when it doesn't happen? no. I think that's one thing that really gets under my skin about some fans. They make up these highly improbably scenarios (like Pettine coming back), those scenarios bounce around the echo chamber for a couple months, then when they predictably fail to come to fruition, a very vocal sect of fans will throw an unbridled **** fit.
dave mcbride Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 So please stop saying it. They're like ex-girlfriends who had flaws that we now overlook because our current girlfriend has become a nightmare. But they're not coming back. Never, ever. Get it through your heads. Schwartz's value has never been higher - thanks to Rex Ryan. No way he's coming back here to let Ryan destroy his value. Pettine and Ryan never really got along, and Pettine doesn't need to crawl back into Ryan's shadow. He's already built his reputation, whatever it's worth. I'm sick and tired of reading posts that talk about bringing back Pettine or Schwartz. They're stupid and they're cluttering up the board. From now on, each poster who posts about bringing back Pettine or Schwartz owes me $1. I'll come find you. Stop the madness. They're never coming back. This is a new meme, but I've never seen any reports that it is the case. As I understand it, Rex was a big backer of Pettine getting the Cleveland job.
GunnerBill Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 If Schwartz had the same injury problems last year we had this year we aren't even a top15 defense. I think you're wrong but neither of us can ever prove it.
The Big Cat Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 If Schwartz had the same injury problems last year we had this year we aren't even a top15 defense. Your determination for making this point is admirable. Sadly, fans don't want to believe it. PFF told WGR in the offseason to expect a regression on defense, regardless who was the coach, because the 2014 health* was a statistical anomaly that was almost guaranteed to not repeat in back to back years. *Fans need to understand that the 2014 health--especially on defense--was very abnormal. This is a new meme, but I've never seen any reports that it is the case. As I understand it, Rex was a big backer of Pettine getting the Cleveland job. Rex is a backer of everyone, so long as a microphone is in front of his mouth.
dave mcbride Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Your determination for making this point is admirable. Sadly, fans don't want to believe it. PFF told WGR in the offseason to expect a regression on defense, regardless who was the coach, because the 2014 health* was a statistical anomaly that was almost guaranteed to not repeat in back to back years. *Fans need to understand that the 2014 health--especially on defense--was very abnormal. Rex has done a very poor job with this defense, but you are right to keep banging this drum. The injuries have definitely impacted them.
The Big Cat Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) Rex has done a very poor job with this defense, but you are right to keep banging this drum. The injuries have definitely impacted them. Here's what we have: 2014, top 4 defense, virtually no injuries. 2015, middling defense, starters missing at every level. Most fans stop reading at the second comma. That's not to say injuries are THE cause. But if you're ignoring them, you're grasping for some other explanation to be true. What it is, I don't know. Why you want it to be true, I don't know. Edited January 3, 2016 by The Big Cat
GunnerBill Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Your determination for making this point is admirable. Sadly, fans don't want to believe it. PFF told WGR in the offseason to expect a regression on defense, regardless who was the coach, because the 2014 health* was a statistical anomaly that was almost guaranteed to not repeat in back to back years. *Fans need to understand that the 2014 health--especially on defense--was very abnormal. Can I just say - I accept that the 2014 health was abnormal... and I did expect a mild regression. This hasn't been that - it has been a falling off the cliff and frankly I believe there is almost no chance that would have happened under Schwartz and you can't prove it would. You can prove you point on health you can't prove your point on it making Schwartz's defense anywhere near as bad as Rex's.
Rob's House Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 The idea of bringing Schwartz back to run his defense under Rex is pretty absurd. If you're hiring Rex Ryan you're running Rex Ryan's defense. Period. The idea that Ryan would run a wide 9 is just as ridiculous as Greg Roman running Mike Martz's offense. I understand the concept of tailoring your defense to your personnel, and that's fine to a point, but most of these guys have a particular philosophy that they've had success with and that's what they do. If you want to run wide 9 don't hire a HC whose signature is a 46 defense.
GunnerBill Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 The idea of bringing Schwartz back to run his defense under Rex is pretty absurd. If you're hiring Rex Ryan you're running Rex Ryan's defense. Period. The idea that Ryan would run a wide 9 is just as ridiculous as Greg Roman running Mike Martz's offense. I understand the concept of tailoring your defense to your personnel, and that's fine to a point, but most of these guys have a particular philosophy that they've had success with and that's what they do. If you want to run wide 9 don't hire a HC whose signature is a 46 defense. Indeed.
The Big Cat Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Can I just say - I accept that the 2014 health was abnormal... and I did expect a mild regression. This hasn't been that - it has been a falling off the cliff and frankly I believe there is almost no chance that would have happened under Schwartz and you can't prove it would. You can prove you point on health you can't prove your point on it making Schwartz's defense anywhere near as bad as Rex's. But see, this is the false scenario that your argument relies on. Through 15 games, it dropped in 12 spots in total points and 16 in total yards. That puts them from top to middle. I don't consider that "falling off a cliff." Save me the sack stats, please. That's not a measurement of a successful defense.
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 So what you're saying is that there is a slight chance Pettine comes back as DC? I sure hope so!
GunnerBill Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) But see, this is the false scenario that your argument relies on. Through 15 games, it dropped in 12 spots in total points and 16 in total yards. That puts them from top to middle. I don't consider that "falling off a cliff." Save me the sack stats, please. That's not a measurement of a successful defense. You don't consider a drop of a third of the league in points and half of the league in yards off the cliff? Not quite sure how I respond to that. And whilst I am not pinning my argument to the sacks stat - we didn't just get worse in points and yards... We got worse in: Points Yards 3rd down Redzone Sacks Turnovers When you put that all together.... it looks like a cliff has been fallen off to me. Edited January 3, 2016 by GunnerBill
FireChan Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) Here's what we have: 2014, top 4 defense, virtually no injuries. 2015, middling defense, starters missing at every level. Most fans stop reading at the second comma. That's not to say injuries are THE cause. But if you're ignoring them, you're grasping for some other explanation to be true. What it is, I don't know. Why you want it to be true, I don't know. Lost starting LB and starting CB in 2014. Wrong again. Edited January 3, 2016 by FireChan
dave mcbride Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 But see, this is the false scenario that your argument relies on. Through 15 games, it dropped in 12 spots in total points and 16 in total yards. That puts them from top to middle. I don't consider that "falling off a cliff." Save me the sack stats, please. That's not a measurement of a successful defense. Not sure how much stock you put in FO's DVOA rankings (I think it's a great system, for what it's worth), but they had them at 2nd last season and at 29th this year -- which sounds about right to me. It can be both you know--weakened D because of injuries AND a poor scheme fit/coaching job.
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