MichFan Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 The only thing I've been "overwhelmed" with on this board is the lack of the kindness, understanding, respect, and acceptance you are now espousing toward gay people, particularly those who are looking to get married. 244850[/snapback] You sure are assigning broad prejudice to people based solely on their stand on a very narrow issue. Kindness? You have no way of assessing whether people on this board are kind to gay people in their day to day lives. Understanding? How can anyone who is not gay understand what it is like to be gay? Respect? Why should people be respected because they are gay? I don't ask to be respected because I'm heterosexual! I respect Melissa Etheridge for her appearance at the Grammy's (my wife just lost her hair from chemotherapy and it was great for her to see that), not because she is gay. Acceptance? On what level? You seem to imply that acceptance is allowing for gay marriage. Well then I fail your litmus test. I accept gay people equally as co-workers and acquaintences, but am also part of the vast majority opposed to gay marriage.
Rubes Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 You sure are assigning broad prejudice to people based solely on their stand on a very narrow issue. Assigning a broad prejudice? Please, explain to me how it is broad. Did I: - conclude that everyone on this board is unkind, inconsiderate, disrespectful, and unaccepting in general? - conclude that everyone on this board is this way toward gay people? Not that I can see. I referred to a particular subset of people here, and specifically to one issue, the narrow issue, the attitudes toward gay people. Your interpretation of anything beyond this is an extrapolation of your own doing. Kindness? You have no way of assessing whether people on this board are kind to gay people in their day to day lives. Understanding? How can anyone who is not gay understand what it is like to be gay? Respect? Why should people be respected because they are gay? I don't ask to be respected because I'm heterosexual! Acceptance? On what level? You seem to imply that acceptance is allowing for gay marriage. Well then I fail your litmus test. I accept gay people equally as co-workers and acquaintences, but am also part of the vast majority opposed to gay marriage. Yes, you do fail the litmus test, thank you for pointing that out. And with a rehash of the same old tired arguments as well. To think I had hoped people had risen above this. No, I don’t know how people on this board interact with gay people on a day-to-day basis. But from many of the remarks and comments I see here, it doesn’t really matter one way or the other. Gays and lesbians are frequently degraded here and elsewhere, sometimes in subtle ways, sometimes in not-so-subtle ways. Kindness is revealed not just in one’s actions, but also in one’s capacity. It can be a considerate, caring act, or it can be the capability of being sympathetic and compassionate. Is everyone here unkind toward gays? Of course not, nor did I ever say that. But it’s not a stretch to say that I don’t need to witness everyone’s daily actions toward gays to know that many here are unkind toward gays, particularly in their capacity for sympathy and compassion. And that leaves out the whole argument about considerate acts in the absence of any true sympathy or compassion. Like the white lady said in "The Color Purple" as she freaks out trying to drive after dropping off Oprah Winfrey's character: "I've always been kind to you people!" Your comments regarding understanding and respect are so completely juvenile they are almost shameful. Again, understanding is more than just your narrow interpretation of it. To understanding something isn’t always just to know it empirically; it is also a sympathetic, empathetic, or tolerant recognition of somebody else’s nature or situation. Perhaps this is too complicated a concept for some, but to conclude that because you are not gay, you cannot understand what it is like to be gay, and to use this as a reason why we should not endeavor to empathize is nothing but a cowardly excuse. I can’t even bring myself to discuss your inane comments regarding respect. “For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. ~Nelson Mandela” And then there is acceptance. At what level you ask? Perhaps we should be asking what your own personal definition of acceptance is. You “accept” gay people, just not entirely. You’re perfectly happy to work with them, to know them as acquaintances. But that’s where it ends, isn’t it? You don’t accept gay people, you endure their presence, probably as long as you don't think of them as "gay". As long as they don’t want to do certain things that you believe only non-gay people have a right to do, their existence is endurable. You are indeed part of the majority of people opposed to gay marriage. That, in and of itself, does not make a stance correct or justifiable. “The test of courage comes when we are in the minority. The test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority.” ~Ralph W. Sockman It is your indifference to the struggles of gay people that defines your position on this issue.
MichFan Posted February 23, 2005 Posted February 23, 2005 Assigning a broad prejudice? Please, explain to me how it is broad. 249042[/snapback] You are saying that people who do not support gay marriage are particularly unkind, not understanding, disrespectful, and unaccepting of gay people. That's a heck of a lot to accuse someone of based on their position on a single issue. As for the rest of your jibberish, it is humorous that you call me juvenile when you are the one acting like a kid at the grocery store who's mother just told him he couldn't have a candy bar. You don't know the first thing about me, yet you think you can define my relationships with people around me who are gay. LOL . You're not even close with your characterizations. Obviously you feel gay people need patronage. I don't spend much time around people of any persuasion with such qualities.
Rubes Posted February 23, 2005 Posted February 23, 2005 As for the rest of your jibberish, it is humorous that you call me juvenile when you are the one acting like a kid at the grocery store who's mother just told him he couldn't have a candy bar. 249127[/snapback] I think this pretty much says everything we need to know. Have a swell day.
MichFan Posted February 23, 2005 Posted February 23, 2005 I think this pretty much says everything we need to know. Have a swell day. 249130[/snapback] http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050222/...PE-BOOK-DC.html ... so what does this say about the Pope?
Rubes Posted February 23, 2005 Posted February 23, 2005 http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050222/...PE-BOOK-DC.html ... so what does this say about the Pope? 249254[/snapback] An excellent question, I must say. Unfortunately, I really really think we don't want to go there. At least not on a message board... Perhaps over a few beers at one of the tailgates this year....
MichFan Posted February 23, 2005 Posted February 23, 2005 An excellent question, I must say. Unfortunately, I really really think we don't want to go there. At least not on a message board... Perhaps over a few beers at one of the tailgates this year.... 249336[/snapback] Nice restraint, Rubes. I was just waiting for you to launch into an anti-Catholic, anti-Pope monologue.
Rubes Posted February 23, 2005 Posted February 23, 2005 Nice restraint, Rubes. I was just waiting for you to launch into an anti-Catholic, anti-Pope monologue. 249556[/snapback] I thought about it... ...then realized I should probably listen to that little voice inside my head (at least for now). Besides, I spend too much time here as it is....
MichFan Posted February 23, 2005 Posted February 23, 2005 I thought about it... ...then realized I should probably listen to that little voice inside my head (at least for now).Besides, I spend too much time here as it is.... 249705[/snapback] I'm here for you if you decide you need to let it out. Of course, you know what side of the fence I'm on. But I'll at least try to be kind, understanding, respectful, and accepting of your feelings ... at least for the moment it takes me to blast away at them .
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