The Doug Whaley positives are taking huge hits.

[FireChan]

 

 

There is a large gray area here since some of these players are still developing. Preston brown had a great rookie year. He regressed this year, but i cant call a 2nd year linebacker a bust after he had one good year and one bad year. Miller looks like he has promise, but needs development. I can't write him off as a bust yet.

 

I think he reached on the watkins pick and the CK pick sure looks bad. but overall, he has been solid

 

I am not saying his drafting is great, but it is at least average compared to the rest of the league.

PB52 didn't just have a bad year. He was rated as the worst MLB in the NFL by PFF. Now PFF is definitely flawed, but I think they're close to the money here. Maybe he'll bounce back and I hope he does, but I don't think he fits this scheme at all. He'll be hopefully a back-up next year.

[John from Riverside]

PB52 didn't just have a bad year. He was rated as the worst MLB in the NFL by PFF. Now PFF is definitely flawed, but I think they're close to the money here. Maybe he'll bounce back and I hope he does, but I don't think he fits this scheme at all. He'll be hopefully a back-up next year.

How was he rated last year?

[FireChan]

How was he rated last year?

If only we still lived in 2014...

 

Maybe we can go back to 2012 and grab that CJ Spiller. Or 2009 Byrd? Build a team of Bills one-hit wonders?

 

Serious question JfH, are you concerned with PB's role in the Rex defense next year? Are you concerned with his career trajectory?

Edited January 3, 2016 by FireChan

[John from Riverside]

If only we still lived in 2014...

 

Maybe we can go back to 2012 and grab that CJ Spiller. Or 2009 Byrd? Build a team of Bills one-hit wonders?

 

Serious question JfH, are you concerned with PB's role in the Rex defense next year? Are you concerned with his career trajectory?

You didnt answer the question

 

and

 

Yes....I am concerned

[FireChan]

You didnt answer the question

 

and

 

Yes....I am concerned

He was rated pretty good in 2014. CJ Spiller had a good 2012. Rex Ryan was a good coach in 2010. None of which mattered in 2015, or will matter in 2016.

[John from Riverside]

He was rated pretty good in 2014. CJ Spiller had a good 2012. Rex Ryan was a good coach in 2010. None of which mattered in 2015, or will matter in 2016.

Your right......they could be better.

 

I am not positive that some changes will not be made this offseason.....not HC but possibly DC. I am am still in the bring back Pettine campe.

[FireChan]

Your right......they could be better.

 

I am not positive that some changes will not be made this offseason.....not HC but possibly DC. I am am still in the bring back Pettine campe.

You are an eternal optimist, I'll give you that.

[What a Tuel]

If only we still lived in 2014...

 

Maybe we can go back to 2012 and grab that CJ Spiller. Or 2009 Byrd? Build a team of Bills one-hit wonders?

 

Serious question JfH, are you concerned with PB's role in the Rex defense next year? Are you concerned with his career trajectory?

 

You are criticizing Whaley for the role of a player in a 2016 defense with a coach that was hired in 2015 that was drafted in 2014?

 

But everyone should tell us again why continuity is a bad thing.

[FireChan]

 

You are criticizing Whaley for the role of a player in a 2016 defense with a coach that was hired in 2015 that was drafted in 2014?

 

But everyone should tell us again why continuity is a bad thing.

Not exactly. I am saying the "good players" that Whaley has drafted are rapidly dwindling, due to many reasons. Some are directly his own doing, like Preston Brown, and some are just poor results, like Seantrel Henderson.

 

The time to fire Rex was this year. Now we will have another refractory period with our next HC. We are passing the point of no return.

Edited January 3, 2016 by FireChan

[KOKBILLS]

PB52 didn't just have a bad year. He was rated as the worst MLB in the NFL by PFF. Now PFF is definitely flawed, but I think they're close to the money here. Maybe he'll bounce back and I hope he does, but I don't think he fits this scheme at all. He'll be hopefully a back-up next year.

 

Well...While I don't disagree that Brown had a really disappointing year, he may very well have been the most effected Bills Defender by Ryan coming to town...

 

The move from WLB in Schwartz 4-3 where PB thrived, to MLB in Ryan's...whatever it is...just killed his progression...Brown was playing out of position and asked to be the field leader for a Defense he was struggling to learn...I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell that Preston is back at MLB for this Defense next year...

 

IMHO Preston Brown did not forget how to play football...The same way Mario, Dareus, and the rest did not forget...Rex came in, blew up a good thing, and what's left in the wake is an absolute ton of questions going forward...

Edited January 3, 2016 by KOKBILLS

[Thurmal34]

Can we please stop firing people and for once have some continuity?

 

One time?

[yungmack]

Isn't it funny how guys who were considered good to great have supposedly "regressed" since P. T. Ryan came to town? And isn't it funny how those guys who have "regressed" are counted as draft failures of Whaley's even though just a year ago they were good to great? Doesn't anyone around here think that, gee, maybe Whaley did a pretty good job and maybe, just maybe, this regression might have at least a teensy bit to do with P. T. Ryan? And doesn't anyone around think that with the right coach that those once good to great picks who are now failed picks might just again become good to great players? Seems to me the failure of some of these picks are directly related to the incompetence of one P. T. Ryan almost exclusively and should not be charged against Doug Whaley.

[FireChan]

Isn't it funny how guys who were considered good to great have supposedly "regressed" since P. T. Ryan came to town? And isn't it funny how those guys who have "regressed" are counted as draft failures of Whaley's even though just a year ago they were good to great? Doesn't anyone around here think that, gee, maybe Whaley did a pretty good job and maybe, just maybe, this regression might have at least a teensy bit to do with P. T. Ryan? And doesn't anyone around think that with the right coach that those once good to great picks who are now failed picks might just again become good to great players? Seems to me the failure of some of these picks are directly related to the incompetence of one P. T. Ryan almost exclusively and should not be charged against Doug Whaley.

Sure thing...

 

“For me his philosophy on how to build a championship team, a consistent championship team is exactly the way I think a team should be built,” said Whaley. “It’s proven. This past postseason everybody was talking about the conference championship games and the four quarterbacks in there were unbelievable quarterbacks, but the common theme in both of those games was the running game. A running game and a defense is a quarterback’s best friend. And those types of teams consistently compete for championships.

“I knew when he started talking about how he wanted to build a team and I could complete his sentences and he could complete mine in how we want the Buffalo Bills to look we were on the same page.”

 

You’ve got to go in with an open mind so you don’t have any biases,’” said Whaley. “And at that point Kim said, ‘Well then how do you know?’ I said, ‘Unfortunately it’s like when I asked people who were married and I was single. How do you know? You just know.’ And when we got to that point we all looked at each other and knew that Rex was the guy who we wanted to be our next head coach.”

 

“The first interview you do more philosophy, scheme, coaching staff and the second interview was more the day-to-day operations of how he runs his program,” said Whaley. “It goes all the way from who sits in first class on team travel to how he’s going to dole out fines, to meetings and scheduling. So if he gets the job we can hit the ground running. I know what to expect from him and help anticipate the things that he’ll need.”

 

“The way we looked at it with where our team is we’re scratching at the door and knocking at the door and we want to kick that door down,” said Whaley. “So we didn’t want a guy who was learning on the job. We wanted a guy who has been there and done that before and not have those missteps of a first-time head coach. It all came together with Rex.”

 

How anyone reads these quotes and thinks Whaley had nothing to do with the coach hire is beyond me.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/How-the-Bills-decided-on-Rex-Ryan-as-head-coach/19b740de-0ca3-4dd6-8fdc-58c0cf013fa2

Edited January 3, 2016 by FireChan

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Sure thing...

 

Nevertheless Whaley was taken by how parallel Ryan’s approach to winning in the NFL was to his own principles of developing a perennial contender.

“For me his philosophy on how to build a championship team, a consistent championship team is exactly the way I think a team should be built,” said Whaley. “It’s proven. This past postseason everybody was talking about the conference championship games and the four quarterbacks in there were unbelievable quarterbacks, but the common theme in both of those games was the running game. A running game and a defense is a quarterback’s best friend. And those types of teams consistently compete for championships.

“I knew when he started talking about how he wanted to build a team and I could complete his sentences and he could complete mine in how we want the Buffalo Bills to look we were on the same page.”

 

You’ve got to go in with an open mind so you don’t have any biases,’” said Whaley. “And at that point Kim said, ‘Well then how do you know?’ I said, ‘Unfortunately it’s like when I asked people who were married and I was single. How do you know? You just know.’ And when we got to that point we all looked at each other and knew that Rex was the guy who we wanted to be our next head coach.”

 

“The first interview you do more philosophy, scheme, coaching staff and the second interview was more the day-to-day operations of how he runs his program,” said Whaley. “It goes all the way from who sits in first class on team travel to how he’s going to dole out fines, to meetings and scheduling. So if he gets the job we can hit the ground running. I know what to expect from him and help anticipate the things that he’ll need.”

 

“The way we looked at it with where our team is we’re scratching at the door and knocking at the door and we want to kick that door down,” said Whaley. “So we didn’t want a guy who was learning on the job. We wanted a guy who has been there and done that before and not have those missteps of a first-time head coach. It all came together with Rex.”

 

How anyone reads these quotes and thinks Whaley had nothing to do with the coach hire is beyond me.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/How-the-Bills-decided-on-Rex-Ryan-as-head-coach/19b740de-0ca3-4dd6-8fdc-58c0cf013fa2

 

Yes, the Rex hire is on all of them - Pegulas, Brandon, and Whaley. He oozed charm and they all bought what he was selling.

 

PS not to be a Tool, because I think it's great you're linking and quoting, but I think the mods would appreciate less quoting, copyright worries or something. I dunno, I just try to humor 'em

Edited January 3, 2016 by Hopeful

[FireChan]

 

Yes, the Rex hire is on all of them - Pegulas, Brandon, and Whaley. He oozed charm and they all bought what he was selling.

 

PS not to be a Tool, because I think it's great you're linking and quoting, but I think the mods would appreciate less quoting, copyright worries or something. I dunno, I just try to humor 'em

I know, but I had to include all of DW's quotes. I'll just do the direct quotes and nothing else, hopefully that's okay.

[John from Riverside]

I know, but I had to include all of DW's quotes. I'll just do the direct quotes and nothing else, hopefully that's okay.

While I do appreciate all these quotes.......it still does not change the fact that this is our tree and were sitting in it......the GM is not going to say anything but he goes right along with everyone and they are all holding hands and in perfect agreement.

 

You will here that even MORE now that Pegula has come out with a vote of confidence for everyone...they are trying to AVOID what happened in the last two years that Rex was with the jets.

[FireChan]

While I do appreciate all these quotes.......it still does not change the fact that this is our tree and were sitting in it......the GM is not going to say anything but he goes right along with everyone and they are all holding hands and in perfect agreement.

 

You will here that even MORE now that Pegula has come out with a vote of confidence for everyone...they are trying to AVOID what happened in the last two years that Rex was with the jets.

Then let me ask you again.

 

If your argument is that Terry and Kim loved Rex and hired him while making the GM feel like he had to toe the company line and lie about how he felt about the hire from a football standpoint, well I don't know if that's any better (in fact it sounds much, much worse), although it does absolve Whaley. Is that your contention?

[billsfan_34]

Of course thanks to the great coaching we had this year, Rex has put these players in the best possible position to succeed! -sarcasm-

 

Hell, Dareus hasn't even done well this year! If the best player on the roster (paid like it) can't look like a stud in Rex's system, then there is no way you can criticize Whaley on the performance of rookies and 2-year vets.

 

Let Whaley pick a coach, and then you can hate on him if the Bills still stink.

 

This team is in a complete rebuild mode currently. Dareus' contract is a killer and doesn't make sense to tie so much money in a DT under Rex's scheme.... We'll have to wait for his contract to expire before the Bills can afford more pro-bowlers and make the playoffs.

 

Thanks Pegula, it was a blast waiting 5 years for the sabres to look respectable again. I'm so thrilled we get to do the same with our Bills.

The Sabres looked respectable for a few games now they have lost 3 of their last 4. There are guys on that roster that dont belong on an NHL team - Weber, Foligno, and Larsson to name a few.

While I do appreciate all these quotes.......it still does not change the fact that this is our tree and were sitting in it......the GM is not going to say anything but he goes right along with everyone and they are all holding hands and in perfect agreement.

 

You will here that even MORE now that Pegula has come out with a vote of confidence for everyone...they are trying to AVOID what happened in the last two years that Rex was with the jets.

Isnt it great how Pegs said that Brandon will be in collaberation with Whaley and Rex? WTF keep that moron away from football. That lil bastard is the root of this mess. He has no business on the football side.

Edited January 3, 2016 by billsfan_34

[GunnerBill]

Fire Chan - I engage with your arguments because unlike some I don't doubt the sincerity of them. We differ on the evaluation of some of the players and why those evaluations have changed - for example even though I agree that Whaley was on board with hiring Rex (I do think it was Terry's choice first and foremost but I don't see any evidence that Whaley was not totally on board even if he might not have had Rex as his absolute 1st choice) I am convinced that they would not have hired Rex if he had said "oh and by the way I am going to totally change the scheme on defense." Indeed, Rex himself said in his press conference that he wouldn't and has said since that he thought part of his problem was trying to mesh the old with the new. Therefore, I don't buy your argument that Preston Brown's regression for example was on anyone other than Rex Ryan.

 

And I accept that those things are open to different interpretations because we are all speculating a little bit based on what we see and hear. If I agreed with you a little more on the player evaluations and on how much blame Whaley takes for the scheme changes then I think your conclusions are not unreasonable.

[Rob's House]

Isn't it funny how guys who were considered good to great have supposedly "regressed" since P. T. Ryan came to town? And isn't it funny how those guys who have "regressed" are counted as draft failures of Whaley's even though just a year ago they were good to great? Doesn't anyone around here think that, gee, maybe Whaley did a pretty good job and maybe, just maybe, this regression might have at least a teensy bit to do with P. T. Ryan? And doesn't anyone around think that with the right coach that those once good to great picks who are now failed picks might just again become good to great players? Seems to me the failure of some of these picks are directly related to the incompetence of one P. T. Ryan almost exclusively and should not be charged against Doug Whaley.

So, did Whaley deliberately set out to build a wide 9 defense? Because that's not what they ran under Pettine. Is it possible that he got a little lucky that his personnel for Schwartz's D and a little unlucky that it didn't fit Rex's?

 

And why does a GM take no responsibility for recommending a coach whose scheme doesn't fit his personnel?

 

And why do we ignore the fact that Rex has a pretty consistent history of fielding good defenses? If this were his first or second year I could see why we treat this year's defensive regression as the only relevant evidence, but since we know he's coached good defenses for years isn't it possible, even likely, that the answer is a little more complicated than scapegoating Ryan?

Edited January 3, 2016 by Rob's House