Sammy Watkins DeAndre Hopkins & QB's

[YoloinOhio]

They also have Alfred blue and Chris polk at running back.

yes, their offense is not good. It is ranked 21st in the league. They can't run the ball. Hopkins is good. He gets thrown to a lot. Edited January 2, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[boyst]

Odell Bitcham Jr, - 152 targets

jarvis landry - 154 targets

 

 

 

why were you holding one in the first place?

christmas present.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Boyst62

[Billsfan1972]

Everything you've said here doesn't have anything to do with root cause of the way Sammy was used this year. There's multiple things that happened:

 

1. Sammy was injured. He missed three games and was limited near the start of the season.

 

2. We had no receiving threat outside of Sammy when Clay and Harvin got hurt.

 

3. Tyrod is still learning to trust his throws. When teams adjusted to play tighter coverage, Tyrod stopped looking Sammy's way. This has changed as the season has gone on, to good results.

 

Yet despite all of this, Sammy Watkins is the top deep receiver in the NFL. There has been clear progression over the course of the year, just look at the game splits I linked above.

 

Always an excuse. Watkins is open and TT often looks the other way (or plays called or the other side of the field). No reason whatsoever in the KC game, where he was double covered the first half too (two td's thrown into double coverage).

 

Yes game splits improved, but not to where they should be. Answer how Mallett, Hoyer, Yates & Weeden can target Hopkins, but TT does not?

[Chilly]

 

Always an excuse. Watkins is open and TT often looks the other way (or plays called or the other side of the field). No reason whatsoever in the KC game, where he was double covered the first half too (two td's thrown into double coverage).

 

Yes game splits improved, but not to where they should be. Answer how Mallett, Hoyer, Yates & Weeden can target Hopkins, but TT does not?

If you believe those are excuses, what do you think are the reasons it happened the way it did and why?

Edited January 2, 2016 by BlueFire

[Billsfan1972]

If you believe those are excuses, what do you think are the reasons it happened the way it did?

Roman is so concerned with the running game, he did a lousy job with the passing game. Most of Watkins catches on long passes were simple routes where he beat defenders.

 

I'd love to see Watkins running or catching in open space like Beckham seems to get. He must have 20-25 catches where he was wide open. Most of Sammy's catches were into tight coverage (thus no YAC).

 

Again YAC is telling and Watkins only has 125 (and heck I remember very few). Though will note DeAndre also has very little.

[mannc]

If you believe those are excuses, what do you think are the reasons it happened the way it did and why?

One reason is that the Bills led the league in 3-and-outs for much of the season--that cuts down on the number of targets. And of course, the Bills' "ground and pound" offense foolishly and consciously de-emphasized the passing game, as if the calendar was re-set to 1977.

[BillsFan130]

Didn't you make a thread on the exact same topic 1 month ago? lol

Edited January 2, 2016 by billsfan11

[Billsfan1972]

Didn't you make a thread on the exact same topic 1 month ago? lol

Sure I did. Today however I saw the deandre stat and pissed me off

Edited January 2, 2016 by Billsfan1972

[Bangarang]

I've been very disappointed with the way we used Watkins this year.

[The Frankish Reich]

Explanation?

 

Very few completions to Sammy in the middle of the field. Which means:

 

A. Sammy doesn't like to run routes in the middle, and doesn't get open there.

 

B. Tyrod doesn't like (can't?) to throw over the middle.

 

C. Roman doesn't design routes for Sammy to get open over the middle.

 

D. All of the above.

 

I vote D.

[Billsfan1972]

One reason is that the Bills led the league in 3-and-outs for much of the season--that cuts down on the number of targets. And of course, the Bills' "ground and pound" offense foolishly and consciously de-emphasized the passing game, as if the calendar was re-set to 1977.

 

 

Explanation?

 

Very few completions to Sammy in the middle of the field. Which means:

 

A. Sammy doesn't like to run routes in the middle, and doesn't get open there.

 

B. Tyrod doesn't like (can't?) to throw over the middle.

 

C. Roman doesn't design routes for Sammy to get open over the middle.

 

D. All of the above.

 

I vote D.

And a reason the Bills led in three and outs with the best rushing offense (sarcasm) is lack of throws to Watkins or throws over the middle and passes to open space.......

 

And yes I second option D.....

[QB Bills]

Explanation?

 

Very few completions to Sammy in the middle of the field. Which means:

 

A. Sammy doesn't like to run routes in the middle, and doesn't get open there.

 

B. Tyrod doesn't like (can't?) to throw over the middle.

 

C. Roman doesn't design routes for Sammy to get open over the middle.

 

D. All of the above.

 

I vote D.

What kind of nonsense is this?

[BarleyNY]

yes it can. Whaley overpaid for a talent. Roman treats him like he has the plague in the second half of games.( well most of the games)

There is simply no reason this kid doesn't have well over 1000 yards already. Put Sammy on a good team different story.

Who is the bigger idiot here Whaley for overpaying? or the coaches who are clueless? I go with coaching. sammy will be gone in 2-3 more years. is it an immediate issue probably not. but nothing like a PO'd geuine #1 on this dysfunctional team.

But that is an opinion based on the ongoing clown show OBD is selling as continuity for next season. Imo.

Yes, Whaley has overpaid for a lot of the talent the Bills have, but I don't blame players for their draft cost. I see three issues capping Watkins' production:

1) Taylor's reliance on pulling the ball down and running on such a high percentage of called passes. That directly limits Watkins' opportunities and also indirectly limits them because Roman has to limit the number of hits Taylor takes by calling more running plays.

2) The lack of a deep threat opposite him. Watkins isn't going to beat dedicated double coverage very often, he just doesn't have the size. Defenses eventually adjusted when he was the only real receiving threat at WR and took him out of games. In the second half of the KC game there was a CB up tight and a S over him. After a tremendous first half he got nothing in the second due to that adjustment.

3) Injury. He's had issues missing time due to injury with his current workload. If he gets more use, then he's going to take more punishment. I hope his body is maturing and can handle it, but it's a huge worry right now.

Edited January 2, 2016 by BarleyNY

[3rdand12]

why were you holding one in the first place?

all night round of dance dance revolution gone awry , perhaps?

Odell Bitcham Jr, - 152 targets

jarvis landry - 154 targets

 

 

 

christmas present.

Phat beats playskool style

i can dig that

Roman is so concerned with the running game, he did a lousy job with the passing game. Most of Watkins catches on long passes were simple routes where he beat defenders.

 

I'd love to see Watkins running or catching in open space like Beckham seems to get. He must have 20-25 catches where he was wide open. Most of Sammy's catches were into tight coverage (thus no YAC).

 

Again YAC is telling and Watkins only has 125 (and heck I remember very few). Though will note DeAndre also has very little.

Slow start for TT and Sammy. You must admit that Tyrod throws it at Sammy regardless nowadays.

It was super frustrating to watch the Bills offense period for most of the first half of the season

[OldTimer1960]

So, are people complaint that the coaches and QB don't utilize Watkins enough or arguing that Watkins isn't good. If it is the former, you have to realize that:

1. QB is a first year starter

2. Offense is intended to run the ball more than pass it

3. Injuries to other WRs have cause defenses to add even more focus on Watkins

4. Watkins played injured early in the year IIRC

5. Depleted backfield made offense 1 dimensional for many games and army (allowing more focus on Watkins by defense)

[26CornerBlitz]

@RQUINN619

Breaking Down #Bills WR Sammy Watkins' Dominant 2nd half of 2015, why future looks bright http://buildingtheherd.com/all-22-breakdowns/breaking-down-sammy-watkins-incredible-play-in-the-2nd-half-of-the-buffalo-bills-season/

[3rdand12]

 

@RQUINN619

Breaking Down #Bills WR Sammy Watkins' Dominant 2nd half of 2015, why future looks bright http://buildingtheherd.com/all-22-breakdowns/breaking-down-sammy-watkins-incredible-play-in-the-2nd-half-of-the-buffalo-bills-season/

 

there is some perspective.

Its coming along : )

[Billsfan1972]

So, are people complaint that the coaches and QB don't utilize Watkins enough or arguing that Watkins isn't good. If it is the former, you have to realize that:

1. QB is a first year starter

2. Offense is intended to run the ball more than pass it

3. Injuries to other WRs have cause defenses to add even more focus on Watkins

4. Watkins played injured early in the year IIRC

5. Depleted backfield made offense 1 dimensional for many games and army (allowing more focus on Watkins by defense)

And I pointed out how lousy Houston's qb's are, the lack of reps and still success for DeAndre.

Led the league in 3 & outs and lack of plays for Watins.

Until last week, 90% of formations had Watkins lined up to the outside. Maybe the most surprising play was Watkins ran a simple 18 yard hook, which we seldom saw (and double coverage can't defend).

Defenses key on all the top receivers and they get targets regardless.

Seldom were there simple plays called for him and how never were there catches in space.

The KC game still drives me crazy. They couldn't stop him the first half and DID NOT LOOK AT HIM THE SECOND HALF

Things improved, but still plenty to work on.

 

And here is the most bothersome stat from the above article......

 

In the last eight games, Sammy Watkins has gained the 3rd-most yards (764) and 4th-most touchdowns (7) among wide receivers, despite his 38 receptions and 59 targets rankings 17th and 18th, respectively.

 

 

Why is he not in the top 10?

Edited January 2, 2016 by Billsfan1972

[Maury Ballstein]

The KC game still drives me crazy. They couldn't stop him the first half and DID NOT LOOK AT HIM THE SECOND HALF

 

This was amazing. Either Tyrod or Roman should be shot.

[Chilly]

Roman is so concerned with the running game, he did a lousy job with the passing game. Most of Watkins catches on long passes were simple routes where he beat defenders.

 

I'd love to see Watkins running or catching in open space like Beckham seems to get. He must have 20-25 catches where he was wide open. Most of Sammy's catches were into tight coverage (thus no YAC).

 

Again YAC is telling and Watkins only has 125 (and heck I remember very few). Though will note DeAndre also has very little.

 

I wanted to see if what you were saying was really true, if we were neglecting Sammy in the passing game, so I did some digging. Below are stats since 11/08 (when Sammy finally came back healthy for the 2nd half of the year) for each of the three receivers:

 

Sammy Watkins

8 Games

Targets: 63 (7.87/gm)

Catches: 38 (4.75/gm)

Catch Rate: 60%

Yards: 764 (95.5/gm)

TDs: 7 (.88/gm)

% of Team Passing Yards: 44%

% of Team Targets: 29%

 

DeAndre Hopkins

7 Games

Targets: 68 (9.71/gm)

Catches: 38 (5.42/gm)

Catch Rate: 56%

Yards: 562 (80.3/gm)

TDs: 5 (.71/gm)

% of Team Passing Yards: 39%

% of Team Targets: 31%

 

Odell Beckham

6 Games

Targets: 76 (12.6/gm)

Catches: 41 (6.83/gm)

Catch Rate: 54%

Yards: 742 (123/gm)

TDs: 6 (1/gm)

% of Team Passing Yards: 42%

% of Team Targets: 31%

 

From a pure #s perspective, Sammy and Deandre aren't that far off each other during that time, while ODB has been used significantly more. However, when adjusting for pass attempts (which is a combination of style of offense, game scripts, etc), we haven't thrown to Sammy that much less, as ODB and DeAndre get thrown at 31% of the time while Sammy gets thrown at 29% of the time when their teams pass the ball.

 

Sounds to me like what you really want is for Sammy not to be injured during the first half of the year, and for us to change to more of a passing offense from a rushing one.