Would you re-sign Harvin to $3m incentive laden contract?

[mikemac2001]

I guess my point is 8 games of Harvin is better than 16 of Brian Hartline (or someone like that). He can impact a game in a way that Hartline can't. If Harvin is out you simply sign someone to fill that roster spot like Deonte Thompson. 8 games of Harvin + 8 games of Thompson > 16 games of Hartline.

 

It's okay to have someone that you know will be there but if they can't impact a game what difference does it make? Is the team that much better off with a Hartline than Thompson? Thompson could have been added from the Bears PS at any point this year. The flip side is a healthy Harvin is far better than either of those guys.

I agree I'm cool with harvin coming back at the right price the game was totally different when we had two threats

 

I also wouldn't mind a WR high because hey this is a passing league I know we don't throw a lot but when Sammy went down we had nothing

[GunnerBill]

I guess my point is 8 games of Harvin is better than 16 of Brian Hartline (or someone like that). He can impact a game in a way that Hartline can't. If Harvin is out you simply sign someone to fill that roster spot like Deonte Thompson. 8 games of Harvin + 8 games of Thompson > 16 games of Hartline.

 

It's okay to have someone that you know will be there but if they can't impact a game what difference does it make? Is the team that much better off with a Hartline than Thompson? Thompson could have been added from the Bears PS at any point this year. The flip side is a healthy Harvin is far better than either of those guys.

 

Kirby do you accept at least that it is Harvin or Goodwin and not both?

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Kirby do you accept at least that it is Harvin or Goodwin and not both?

Yeah, I think that I do. You can't have too many question marks.

[GunnerBill]

Yeah, I think that I do. You can't have too many question marks.

 

In which case the question becomes is Harvin at $2m better value than Goodwin on the last year of his rookie deal doesn't it? I would go Harvin (whilst I am of the view he is one of the most overrated players in the league he is someone you can do 3 or 4 gadgety things with and can help on special teams whereas Goodwin is one dimensional for me) but if the cap is tight I can see an argument for Goodwin of the two as well.

 

I can see them not tendering Hogan and relying on Salas and/or possibly Boykin to serve as that 3rd/4th option guy.

[NoSaint]

 

Kirby do you accept at least that it is Harvin or Goodwin and not both?

I think it's a valid discussion point and an argument I could definitely buy.... But may not need to be firmly decided until August when you know your 2, 4, and 7 options, as well as what's up with a guy like Easley that could potentially start on the PUP list.

 

Would penciling in easley to return mid-season skew your take? Or if our 2 and 4 are guys that are known to be in the bob woods model of receiver that's reliable but not explosive?

 

Do I risk carrying two of them then figuring Easley replaces one mid season, and maybe the other ends up healthier than expected, or Goodwin be the 6 and not dress weekly unless Sammy/harvin face injury, or 7 is a guy that will be a safe bet for PS if needed? I could see some maybe I like both options but I think your point is very fair.

Edited January 24, 2016 by NoSaint

[fansince88]

 

In which case the question becomes is Harvin at $2m better value than Goodwin on the last year of his rookie deal doesn't it? I would go Harvin (whilst I am of the view he is one of the most overrated players in the league he is someone you can do 3 or 4 gadgety things with and can help on special teams whereas Goodwin is one dimensional for me) but if the cap is tight I can see an argument for Goodwin of the two as well.

 

I can see them not tendering Hogan and relying on Salas and/or possibly Boykin to serve as that 3rd/4th option guy.

Could be wrong but I believe one of the two new guys step up and take the # 2 spot. That said bring back Harvin and Goodwin and if either of the two as much as complain about a hangnail in preseason...CUT THEM!

[GunnerBill]

I think it's a valid discussion point and an argument I could definitely buy.... But may not need to be firmly decided until August when you know your 2, 4, and 7 options, as well as what's up with a guy like Easley that could potentially start on the PUP list.

 

Would penciling in easley to return mid-season skew your take? Or if our 2 and 4 are guys that are known to be in the bob woods model of receiver that's reliable?

 

Obviously a little bit depends on what the overall balance of the roster is and what you need for special teams. So our first 3 choices as gunner the last two years have been Easley, Brooks and Hogan.... there is a good chance that Easley is the only one who is still a Bill by training camp and if he is not healthy to go and their first choice replacement gunner is not himself a receiver than you are talking 5 spots.

 

Watkins and Woods have two sewn up. I don't think you can go Goodwin and Harvin as two of the remaining three. Only if you end up having 7 receivers or 6 and a specialist gunner from another position can I make any kind of argument for both.

[Maury Ballstein]

Percy is washed. Can't believe this thread keeps going.

 

Have zero interest in retaining him. Let's get a real #2 who can help this team.

[Kirby Jackson]

Percy is washed. Can't believe this thread keeps going.

 

Have zero interest in retaining him. Let's get a real #2 who can help this team.

Would you rather $2M to Harvin or Rod Streater? That is what this conversation is.

[fansince88]

Even with my previous quote, I feel we need to move on from both. They are quality WR until they get hit.

[Doc]

Would you rather $2M to Harvin or Rod Streater? That is what this conversation is.

 

I'd spend more to get a dependable #2 WR.

[GunnerBill]

Would you rather $2M to Harvin or Rod Streater? That is what this conversation is.

 

I'm not sure it is quite that Kirby. Streater had 1 catch last year.... your Hartline comparison was a better one.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I'm not sure it is quite that Kirby. Streater had 1 catch last year.... your Hartline comparison was a better one.

Fair enough, I used Streater because he is a FA coming off of a contract between $2-$3M. It is similar to the range that we are talking. Hartline is a good example and is on a 2 year $6M deal.

[NoSaint]

Even with my previous quote, I feel we need to move on from both. They are quality WR until they get hit.

Percy's, from what I gather, isn't even a contact injury. It seems his long term hip issues likely caused a knee issue due to the hip changing his mechanics- right? I don't think we got official but that seemed to be the read between the lines answer.

 

And the hip issue was not from a hit to begin with- it was an offseason one but something that was a concern for him long term (didn't he and Byrd each have some known hip issue). Couple that with the migraines and his health issues haven't been of the fragile nature

Edited January 24, 2016 by NoSaint

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I'd spend more to get a dependable #2 WR.

So you are in the camp of 16 games of a Hartline type is better than 8 games of Harvin and 8 of a Deonte Thompson type? There are others in that camp. That's why it is an interesting conversation.

[Doc]

So you are in the camp of 16 games of a Hartline type is better than 8 games of Harvin and 8 of a Deonte Thompson type? There are others in that camp. That's why it is an interesting conversation.

 

If I could be assured of his availability for 8 games and I could pick which ones, sure.

[BuffaloFan68]

Goodwin lost weight to train & compete for the olympics & then spent the rest of the season trying to bulk back up to football condition.

I wouldn't sign Harvin for more than a million - even so, would have to be incentive based.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

If I could be assured of his availability for 8 games and I could pick which ones, sure.

Unfortunately the front office can't make decisions using hindsight. He may play 16 games and he may play 3. We don't really know. I'm just using 8 games as an example.

 

Edit: I just looked it up and he has averaged 7 games a year over the last 4 years. He played pretty much the entire time his first 3 years.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Kirby Jackson

[3rdand12]

The odds are great that he will not come close to finishing a season without being hurt. Few people are arguing that he isn't a unique talent because he is. Even though he probably could become available at a reasonable cap price I would rather acquire a lesser receiving talent who is more durable to bolster the receiving corps.

 

The argument I am using against signing Harvin is the same argument I am using against Goodwin. He also is a unique talent because of his blazing speed. But he has also demonstrated an inability to stay on the field. He's a football player who can't take a hit without having to be helped off the field.

 

The problem with signing a Harvin is that you are losing a spot prior to the season when you can dedicate it to someone else who may be able to help. When you consider his and Goodwin's durability record in their respective careers it is obvious to me that no matter how cheaply they can be attained for it still isn't worth it because odds are that the injury scenario will play out as it usually does.

I think it all revolves around the HIP problem. If he has any lingering issue , i dont think he will want to play anymore.

If he gets a clean bill of health this offseason, which i do not believe he had when we paid him last year ( just a hunch ) i give him a shot with a pro Bills smart contract.

But i understand your pessimism.

BTW all our Receivers were seriously injured this year at some point.

 

Kirby do you accept at least that it is Harvin or Goodwin and not both?

I would like to chime in with a yes ! either or.

Players gotta be available

[Doc]

Unfortunately the front office can't make decisions using hindsight. He may play 16 games and he may play 3. We don't really know. I'm just using 8 games as an example.

 

Edit: I just looked it up and he has averaged 7 games a year over the last 4 years. He played pretty much the entire time his first 3 years.

 

I think you meant to say that can't make decisions using foresight. Hindsight sure, and as you said, he's averaged just 7 games a year the past 4 years. Not worth it.