Would you re-sign Harvin to $3m incentive laden contract?

[8-8 Forever?]

lets see how the draft shakes out and go from there.. no one else will be signing him thats for sure (and that tells you something right there)

[C.Biscuit97]

Signs you are completely desperate: you are still talking about signing Harvin. He's got little man's disease, never plays, hasn't had a productive season in 5 years, and occasionally blows up on coaches. But other that, he's great.

[NorthBuffaloKid]

Whatever the minimum a player with his years at his position would make, plus some nice bonuses.

 

He needs to prove that he can make it through a full season.

[YoloinOhio]

Especially when a Brandon Marshall was availablr and the better fit.

he may be a better player and not as injury prone but I don't think he's a better fit for this offense. They wanted a fast, versatile player who can line up in multiple places and be a legit deep thread. Marshall is a bigger, slower possession WR at this point in his career and has drop issues. Still a good player but just different. Of course now you would rather have Marshall looking at what both did last year. But both were drama everywhere they had been - that part was the same. The fit for what the offense needed is different IMO.

[YoloinOhio]

He is not only injury prone, he is moody and sat out AWOL and did tell front office his plans.

I think he should only be signed post week 1 so Bills can cut him if he does not want to play.

 

Once a player has qualified (4 years effectively) he is paid for entire season, active or not, once he is on Week 1 roster.

there are ways to make it so that there is an annual salary, and then per-game active bonuses. Depending on how small the annual salary is (say vet minimum for example), he's basically being paid per games he is active. Edited March 24, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[Helpmenow]

Harvin Headcase! Stay away

Edited March 24, 2016 by Helpmenow

[Fan in Chicago]

he may be a better player and not as injury prone but I don't think he's a better fit for this offense. They wanted a fast, versatile player who can line up in multiple places and be a legit deep thread. Marshall is a bigger, slower possession WR at this point in his career and has drop issues. Still a good player but just different. Of course now you would rather have Marshall looking at what both did last year. But both were drama everywhere they had been - that part was the same. The fit for what the offense needed is different IMO.

IMHO, we do need a big possession type WR. In last offseason, we had speed in Gooodwin. Watkins may not be a burner but appears to have game speed. Marshall would have been the missing piece. Your point about dropsies is well taken but overall the watkins-marshall-woods combo would have been the right mix of skills. Be that as it may, Harvin with his limited availability still has no place on this team even at an incentive laden contract. Given that we don't have a lot of depth, we cannot afford Harvin

[BADOLBILZ]

he may be a better player and not as injury prone but I don't think he's a better fit for this offense. They wanted a fast, versatile player who can line up in multiple places and be a legit deep thread. Marshall is a bigger, slower possession WR at this point in his career and has drop issues. Still a good player but just different. Of course now you would rather have Marshall looking at what both did last year. But both were drama everywhere they had been - that part was the same. The fit for what the offense needed is different IMO.

 

 

You are way off on this.

 

First of all........when Rex was hired the first two thing he mentioned that they needed were a big WR and a NT.

 

But then they got a little carried away when they were offered Shady..........a finesse RB who does not fit Roman's scheme.

 

They panicked when they couldn't get McCown and traded a pick for a broken down, never was in Matt Cassel and when the Bears then put Marshall up on the block the Bills no longer had that pick to trade.

 

They deemed a fourth rounder too rich and the Jets got a player who is an outstanding big play threat and redzone beast........he isn't just "still good"....he had 109 catches 1502 yards and 14 TD's!

 

The PERFECT fit for what they needed opposite Watkins.

 

And they knew that was what they needed from the start.

 

Yet here we are a year later and they still need a WR and a NT.

 

They SETTLED for Harvin.........who became the odd man out after the Jets acquired Marshall.

[John from Riverside]

 

 

You are way off on this.

 

First of all........when Rex was hired the first two thing he mentioned that they needed were a big WR and a NT.

 

I do actually remember Rex saying this.

 

But then they got a little carried away when they were offered Shady..........a finesse RB who does not fit Roman's scheme.

 

I dont agree with this.....due to Shady's versitility he fits pretty much every scheme.....and when he was healthy he was very productive for us.

 

They panicked when they couldn't get McCown and traded a pick for a broken down, never was in Matt Cassel and when the Bears then put Marshall up on the block the Bills no longer had that pick to trade.

 

Im gonna take your word for this....I will say that if McCown would have been a bill Tyrod would have never got his chance with the bills because Cassel was SOOOO bad. So sometimes its the thing that doesnt work out for you that you end up being the better for.

 

They deemed a fourth rounder too rich and the Jets got a player who is an outstanding big play threat and redzone beast........he isn't just "still good"....he had 109 catches 1502 yards and 14 TD's!

 

If we truly had a chance to get that WR......absolutely I agree with you.

 

The PERFECT fit for what they needed opposite Watkins.

 

Agreed

 

And they knew that was what they needed from the start.

 

Yet here we are a year later and they still need a WR and a NT.

 

Its not all gonna be perfect. Year to year some things will work out and some things wont. For instance......we have Dez Lewis sitting down on the practice squad who kinda fits this big WR mold.....and might just need some NFL time to get his game together. The book is not written yet its being written.

 

They SETTLED for Harvin.........who became the odd man out after the Jets acquired Marshall.

 

I would have much rather had Marshall then Harvin

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

 

You are way off on this.

 

First of all........when Rex was hired the first two thing he mentioned that they needed were a big WR and a NT.

 

I do actually remember Rex saying this.

 

But then they got a little carried away when they were offered Shady..........a finesse RB who does not fit Roman's scheme.

 

I dont agree with this.....due to Shady's versitility he fits pretty much every scheme.....and when he was healthy he was very productive for us.

 

They panicked when they couldn't get McCown and traded a pick for a broken down, never was in Matt Cassel and when the Bears then put Marshall up on the block the Bills no longer had that pick to trade.

 

Im gonna take your word for this....I will say that if McCown would have been a bill Tyrod would have never got his chance with the bills because Cassel was SOOOO bad. So sometimes its the thing that doesnt work out for you that you end up being the better for.

 

They deemed a fourth rounder too rich and the Jets got a player who is an outstanding big play threat and redzone beast........he isn't just "still good"....he had 109 catches 1502 yards and 14 TD's!

 

If we truly had a chance to get that WR......absolutely I agree with you.

 

The PERFECT fit for what they needed opposite Watkins.

 

Agreed

 

And they knew that was what they needed from the start.

 

Yet here we are a year later and they still need a WR and a NT.

 

Its not all gonna be perfect. Year to year some things will work out and some things wont. For instance......we have Dez Lewis sitting down on the practice squad who kinda fits this big WR mold.....and might just need some NFL time to get his game together. The book is not written yet its being written.

 

They SETTLED for Harvin.........who became the odd man out after the Jets acquired Marshall.

 

I would have much rather had Marshall then Harvin

 

 

My point is that they knew what they needed but when the gun sounded on the offseason they got distracted by shiny things they didn't need,

 

They didn't need Shady......they needed a physical back to play the physical run game they wanted to implement. His production was not only disappointing but also very soft.

 

They didn't need to pay Harvin $6M per year to run gadget plays they needed a big, big play WR to stretch that D vertically and make plays in the redzone.

 

They didn't need to trade for a busted old backup QB who hadn't played well in years and couldn't pass a physical.

 

And perhaps most of all they needed a NT so that they wouldn't waste a $15M Dareus tying up blockers.

 

They crapped themselves when it came to addressing two needs they should have easily been able to fill.

 

Their two real successes in pro personnel were both flyers.......Tyrod and Incognito.

 

I give them credit for taking those chances but they definitely lost their way wrt their obvious needs.

[FLFan]

 

You are way off on this.

 

First of all........when Rex was hired the first two thing he mentioned that they needed were a big WR and a NT.

 

I do actually remember Rex saying this.

 

But then they got a little carried away when they were offered Shady..........a finesse RB who does not fit Roman's scheme.

 

I dont agree with this.....due to Shady's versitility he fits pretty much every scheme.....and when he was healthy he was very productive for us.

 

They panicked when they couldn't get McCown and traded a pick for a broken down, never was in Matt Cassel and when the Bears then put Marshall up on the block the Bills no longer had that pick to trade.

 

Im gonna take your word for this....I will say that if McCown would have been a bill Tyrod would have never got his chance with the bills because Cassel was SOOOO bad. So sometimes its the thing that doesnt work out for you that you end up being the better for.

 

They deemed a fourth rounder too rich and the Jets got a player who is an outstanding big play threat and redzone beast........he isn't just "still good"....he had 109 catches 1502 yards and 14 TD's!

 

If we truly had a chance to get that WR......absolutely I agree with you.

 

The PERFECT fit for what they needed opposite Watkins.

 

Agreed

 

And they knew that was what they needed from the start.

 

Yet here we are a year later and they still need a WR and a NT.

 

Its not all gonna be perfect. Year to year some things will work out and some things wont. For instance......we have Dez Lewis sitting down on the practice squad who kinda fits this big WR mold.....and might just need some NFL time to get his game together. The book is not written yet its being written.

 

They SETTLED for Harvin.........who became the odd man out after the Jets acquired Marshall.

 

I would have much rather had Marshall then Harvin

 

First of all, I do not think panic is the right word to describe going after Cassel when McCown chose Cleveland over Buffalo nor is it anything close to accurate. It was the next best option at th time. It is not like the free agent market was rich with starting QB potential that the Bills failed to realize. The move for Cassel was reasonable insurance.

 

Second, the whole Marshall argument is hindsight brilliance at its finest. It clearly would have taken more than the Jets 5th round selection to get him from Chicago, and since the bills were picking later than the Jets (remember the Marrone 9/7 "miracle") the Bills would have to offer at least their 4th. The Casell argument is baseless. I am pretty confident in saying that many Bills fans, including some who are lamenting their "failure" to trade for him would have been apoplectic over trading that pick for a player who comes with as much or even more baggage than Harvin.

 

The Harvin move did not pan out, but not because he did not make an impact when he was in the lineup. He clearly did, and their offense was much more dangerous when he played. He did not stay healthy, which was a risk going in, as it is with every player. Marshall worked out for the Jets but that as much good luck and circumstance as it was bad luck for the Bills and Harvin. That's the way it goes. To suggest some existential reason for the end result is kind of silly.

 

As far as the McCoy does not fit the Roman offense arguement - no basis in fact whatsoever for that.

 

I may be the only fan who would like to see Harvin back ( on an incentive laden deal) but I believe the Bills are a much more dangerous team with him in the lineup. They have no one else who brings the same skill set and threat he does, and they are unlikely to be able to draft someone at that level either.

[John from Riverside]

 

My point is that they knew what they needed but when the gun sounded on the offseason they got distracted by shiny things they didn't need,

 

 

 

They didn't need Shady......they needed a physical back to play the physical run game they wanted to implement. His production was not only disappointing but also very soft.

 

Who should they have went with? We do in fact have physical backs on the roster I thought Karlos looked fantastic.....Gillislee was a find at the end of the season. We are not lacking for quality backs.

 

They didn't need to pay Harvin $6M per year to run gadget plays they needed a big, big play WR to stretch that D vertically and make plays in the redzone.

 

At the end of the day....I agree with this. But I will say this....the connection of TT to Percy is very dynamic when everyone is healthy.....i did think the price tag was rich. When he didnt make it through the season I thought even more so.

 

They didn't need to trade for a busted old backup QB who hadn't played well in years and couldn't pass a physical.

 

But....like I said. if they dont trade for him (which in the end....they ended up trading and getting back a pick) then TT does not get his chance......Let me ask you this. If they brought in a veteran QB that had started elsewhere that was even mildly average does Tyrod Taylor get his chance? it is BECAUSE they brought in Cassell that we now have a starting TT going into next season.

 

And perhaps most of all they needed a NT so that they wouldn't waste a $15M Dareus tying up blockers.

 

I really just dont think that is going to be our D this next season. Even if all they have at NT is Barnes (I REALLY think that will not be the case) I dont think Rex goes into next season using a DL playmaker to tie up blockers. Maybe due to injury he felt he needed to do it in season 1? I dont like it either......let Marcel get after it.

 

They crapped themselves when it came to addressing two needs they should have easily been able to fill.

 

Mistakes were made....but other then the WR what do we know for a fact could have been done. They also made some nice choices as well. Darby for instance.

 

Their two real successes in pro personnel were both flyers.......Tyrod and Incognito.

 

I give them credit for taking those chances but they definitely lost their way wrt their obvious needs.

[FireChan]

First of all, I do not think panic is the right word to describe going after Cassel when McCown chose Cleveland over Buffalo nor is it anything close to accurate. It was the next best option at th time. It is not like the free agent market was rich with starting QB potential that the Bills failed to realize. The move for Cassel was reasonable insurance.

 

Second, the whole Marshall argument is hindsight brilliance at its finest. It clearly would have taken more than the Jets 5th round selection to get him from Chicago, and since the bills were picking later than the Jets (remember the Marrone 9/7 "miracle") the Bills would have to offer at least their 4th. The Casell argument is baseless. I am pretty confident in saying that many Bills fans, including some who are lamenting their "failure" to trade for him would have been apoplectic over trading that pick for a player who comes with as much or even more baggage than Harvin.

 

The Harvin move did not pan out, but not because he did not make an impact when he was in the lineup. He clearly did, and their offense was much more dangerous when he played. He did not stay healthy, which was a risk going in, as it is with every player. Marshall worked out for the Jets but that as much good luck and circumstance as it was bad luck for the Bills and Harvin. That's the way it goes. To suggest some existential reason for the end result is kind of silly.

 

As far as the McCoy does not fit the Roman offense arguement - no basis in fact whatsoever for that.

 

I may be the only fan who would like to see Harvin back ( on an incentive laden deal) but I believe the Bills are a much more dangerous team with him in the lineup. They have no one else who brings the same skill set and threat he does, and they are unlikely to be able to draft someone at that level either.

How about we suggest B Marsh is a million times the player and much more durable as a reason for the end result?

Edited March 24, 2016 by FireChan

[FLFan]

How about we suggest B Marsh is a million times the player and much more durable as a reason for the end result?

A "million times the player", really? If I had known that my opinion would clearly be different.

[FireChan]

A "million times the player", really? If I had known that my opinion would clearly be different.

Well let's see.

 

Brandon Marshall's last 3 years. ~3000 yards, 31 TD's.

 

Percy Harvin's last 3 years. ~1000 yards, 4 TD's

 

No one could've predicted who would have a better 2015...

[PlayoffsPlease]

Well let's see.

 

Brandon Marshall's last 3 years. ~3000 yards, 31 TD's.

 

Percy Harvin's last 3 years. ~1000 yards, 4 TD's

 

No one could've predicted who would have a better 2015...

 

You seem to be one of the fans that view production as somehow superior to potential, or prototypical size or speed or measurable. If you just pick the guy who is obviously better, than no one will know you are a genius. You need to pass on the obvious guys and dig out the diamonds in the rough and reclamation projects to truly prove how smart you are.

[FLFan]

Well let's see.

 

Brandon Marshall's last 3 years. ~3000 yards, 31 TD's.

 

Percy Harvin's last 3 years. ~1000 yards, 4 TD's

 

No one could've predicted who would have a better 2015...

In 2014 Marshall caught 61 passes for 721 yards and was set to make $7.5 m in 2015. His future was very much in doubt. The Jets traded a 5th round pick, which would have had to be a 4th round pick for buffalo, and increased his salary to $9 m in the process. I do not recall anyone clamoring to make this deal last year. It would have been a crapshoot. If I am mistaken, and you advocated this last year, please enlighten me. Otherwise, it is pure hindsight analysis and not very insightful.

[FireChan]

In 2014 Marshall caught 61 passes for 721 yards and was set to make $7.5 m in 2015. His future was very much in doubt. The Jets traded a 5th round pick, which would have had to be a 4th round pick for buffalo, and increased his salary to $9 m in the process. I do not recall anyone clamoring to make this deal last year. It would have been a crapshoot. If I am mistaken, and you advocated this last year, please enlighten me. Otherwise, it is pure hindsight analysis and not very insightful.

What does this mean? How was his "future" in doubt? He played on a horrific team and punctured a lung, resulting in a down year. Unlike Harvin, who hasn't had a good year since Minnesota and has battling a chronic hip injury for almost as long. Not all injuries are created equal.

 

Here's a topic about how it's a good trade for the Jets to acquire B Marsh: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/176668-b-marshall-to-jets/

 

It's not a hindsight argument when I used all the data from before 2015.

Edited March 25, 2016 by FireChan

[BADOLBILZ]

First of all, I do not think panic is the right word to describe going after Cassel when McCown chose Cleveland over Buffalo nor is it anything close to accurate. It was the next best option at th time. It is not like the free agent market was rich with starting QB potential that the Bills failed to realize. The move for Cassel was reasonable insurance.

 

Second, the whole Marshall argument is hindsight brilliance at its finest. It clearly would have taken more than the Jets 5th round selection to get him from Chicago, and since the bills were picking later than the Jets (remember the Marrone 9/7 "miracle") the Bills would have to offer at least their 4th. The Casell argument is baseless. I am pretty confident in saying that many Bills fans, including some who are lamenting their "failure" to trade for him would have been apoplectic over trading that pick for a player who comes with as much or even more baggage than Harvin.

 

The Harvin move did not pan out, but not because he did not make an impact when he was in the lineup. He clearly did, and their offense was much more dangerous when he played. He did not stay healthy, which was a risk going in, as it is with every player. Marshall worked out for the Jets but that as much good luck and circumstance as it was bad luck for the Bills and Harvin. That's the way it goes. To suggest some existential reason for the end result is kind of silly.

 

As far as the McCoy does not fit the Roman offense arguement - no basis in fact whatsoever for that.

 

I may be the only fan who would like to see Harvin back ( on an incentive laden deal) but I believe the Bills are a much more dangerous team with him in the lineup. They have no one else who brings the same skill set and threat he does, and they are unlikely to be able to draft someone at that level either.

 

 

I was vocal about the Bills making a mistake by not getting Marshall at the time. Hindsight? For you perhaps.

 

He didn't have to do what he did......which was put up one of the greatest seasons ever by a WR..........he could have produced half of what he did and been worth a fourth round pick.

 

I've been thru this with McCoy......he's a 4.2-4.4 ypc back that doesn't bring a physical impact. Three of the past 4 seasons that's what he's produced.

 

In 2014 he actually had the lowest yards per touch of any qualifying player in the NFL. He doesn't score touchdowns or wear down defenses. His production is the epitome of soft.

 

Williams and Gillislee were both far more effective.........and, as backs in a Greg Roman system should be......dirt cheap.

 

Been saying it from the start, McCoy will be gone after this season........and they guaranteed $26.5M so they will be choking down about $15M of that in dead money.

 

Despite the fact that you are wrong on most things.........we agree about Harvin.

 

There isn't much out there this year and it's not the kind of WR draft class that is likely to produce first year star players the way many recent drafts have. Harvin would be a help.

 

Bills should have struck while the iron was hot on their stated primary needs......WR and NT.

 

That's a lesson the Bills should take into this draft when it comes to strength at the DL.........don't pass over better DL talent this year to try to fill a need.

[BADOLBILZ]

In 2014 Marshall caught 61 passes for 721 yards and was set to make $7.5 m in 2015. His future was very much in doubt. The Jets traded a 5th round pick, which would have had to be a 4th round pick for buffalo, and increased his salary to $9 m in the process. I do not recall anyone clamoring to make this deal last year. It would have been a crapshoot. If I am mistaken, and you advocated this last year, please enlighten me. Otherwise, it is pure hindsight analysis and not very insightful.

 

 

Let me repeat this for you.........the Bills traded the fifth round pick that they needed to outbid the Jets for Brandon Marshall to the Vikings for Matt Cassell.

 

The Bills had the first selection in the 5th round.

 

They were in on Marshall.

 

They settled for Harvin.