C.Biscuit97 Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 7 wins in 13 games with a **** show defense and a team decimated by injuries. While I'm tired of the injury excuse, it is legitimate. The defense though, is inexcusable. Our offense is better than in recent years, one would assume that our defense should have been relatively on par with the last couple of years, and with that assumption a decent overall team. Against the Jets we could be missing, due to injury*: RB1, WR2, WR3, WR5, TE1, RT1, RG1, DT1, DT2, DT4, DE4, CB1, CB2, SS1 (Only included players who rotate in regularly in the ideal situation) Generally agree with all this. We are only averaging 2 more points than last year though. But this year is clearly on the defense. They didn't live up to their end of the bargain.
Gugny Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 They easily could have had more if they didn't run out the clock. Also, they missed an xp, they fumbled in fg range, and taylor threw an int at the goal line. Anyway, point scoring hasn't been the bills issue this season, really. As for throwing for less than 200 yards (not directed at you), come on--that is not how you evaluate a qb. It's yards per attempt, and he averaged a gaudy 10 ypa yesterday. The Bills put up over 400 yards against a good defense. Team sport. Sheesh. And as for taylor, he has played in 13 games. I agree that W-L is not a QB stat. But it is my opinion that Taylor's inability to find/hit open receivers over the middle of the field has hamstrung this offense all season. All the snazzy runs are exciting and cute ... between the 20 yard lines. He's been padding his stats with checkdowns and the occasional deep pass, all season long. Bottom line, to me, is that he is rarely able to lead this offense to a TD when it is needed against a decent team. Until he's able to do that, we'll keep winning nailbiters against teams like TEN and DAL and we'll keep losing against decent teams ... all on the way to a .500-ish record at the end of the season. No, thank you.
Dorkington Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) Generally agree with all this. We are only averaging 2 more points than last year though. But this year is clearly on the defense. They didn't live up to their end of the bargain. That's the difference between 12th and 20th in the league, though. And that includes said injuries, but also the defense playing poorly, special teams playing poorly, and penalties, that have all put the offense in a challenging position. Example, we're ranked 12th in average pts/drive this year. 23rd in avg pts/drive last year. That's with the fact we were ranked 5th in starting field position last year, and this year we're ranked 25th in starting field position. While the difference is 'only' 5 yards between the two, it adds up over the course of a game and a season. Edited December 28, 2015 by Dorkington
PromoTheRobot Posted December 28, 2015 Author Posted December 28, 2015 I agree that W-L is not a QB stat. But it is my opinion that Taylor's inability to find/hit open receivers over the middle of the field has hamstrung this offense all season. All the snazzy runs are exciting and cute ... between the 20 yard lines. He's been padding his stats with checkdowns and the occasional deep pass, all season long. Bottom line, to me, is that he is rarely able to lead this offense to a TD when it is needed against a decent team. Until he's able to do that, we'll keep winning nailbiters against teams like TEN and DAL and we'll keep losing against decent teams ... all on the way to a .500-ish record at the end of the season. No, thank you. This "throw over the middle" argument is a straw man and has been already proven wrong. See the stats quoted earlier. Same with throwing 30+.
Nihilarian Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 I find it very hard to consider any QB who throws the ball 18 times for 1 INT and no TD's as having a "spectacular" day. True enough. The Bills won the game 16-6 mostly because they faced a total scrub in Dallas QB Kellen Moore and a guy who was playing in his second start of his NFL career. This after being promoted from the Dallas practice squad Dec 2nd, 2015. Compare the stats. Kellen Moore 13 of 31 for 186, 0 TD, one INT. vs Tyrod Taylor 13 of 18 for 179, 0 TD, one INT. The bigger difference in Moore rushing for 1 attempt for -1 yards vs Taylor with 14 attempts for 47 yards. The really ironically funny thing is Brandon Weeden is 2-0 as the Texans QB after the Cowboys dumped him. Then the Bills had nearly double the net rushing yards 121 vs 236 in this game. So, the real question is why did the Clownboys keep asking the inexperienced QB to throw it up 31 times and only run the ball 25 times? Jerry Jones should fire his head coach Jason Garrett and then fire his own arse as GM. Anyway, I'm a Tyrod Taylor fan, but I also realize this young man has a lot of developing to do before naming him the "franchise" QB. Taylor did well in his first year as an NFL starting QB. As others have put it Taylor still has a bunch of holes in his game he needs to correct, and there is still the issue of his size and durability. Fans that throw out QB ratings need to remember that Greg Roman has built a run first offense that limits the amount of passing the QB does and has him throw mostly the safer passes to the single covered receivers. Taylor has yet to throw for 300 yards this season or lead big comebacks by throwing more then 30 passes successfully in a game. I'm rooting for the guy to be the next Russell Wilson, and take the Bills to the playoffs.
BillsVet Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Did they give stats for a couple other QB for a comparison? Yes. TT throws 65% of his passes to the sidelines. Jeremy White referenced Palmer, Brady, and Fitz to name a few who throw there between 50-55% of the time. IIRC, Russell Wilson was at 58%. No one near TT. Not surprisingly, White found that Kaepernick under Roman in 2013 had a very similar statistic in terms of his throws to the sideline versus over the field. And he had 21 TD against 8 INT in 2013, declining the following year to 19 and 10. His YPA also fell from year to year under Roman. 3 of the runs were kneel downs, fwiw. He really rean it 11 times for 70 yards, not 14 for 67. Thanks Dave. So TT has run 35 times not including kneel-downs in the past 4 games. Some might say Cam Newton runs more frequently, and he does. But I'd rather a 6'6 250# guy do it than a 6'1 215# QB who's been hurt already this season.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 28, 2015 Author Posted December 28, 2015 I find it very hard to consider any QB who throws the ball 18 times for 1 INT and no TD's as having a "spectacular" day. That's due to tunnel vision on your part.
Dorkington Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Tyrod produced 239 combined yards (passing, rushing, sacks) on a day where we were missing two starting offensive lineman, three of our top five wide receivers, starting tight end, and starting running back. Against a solid Dallas defense, on a really miserable day. The only beef I have with his game was the interception, and as far as I know he's instructed to throw it no matter what he sees on that play. You people are amazing.
fridge Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 True enough. The Bills won the game 16-6 mostly because they faced a total scrub in Dallas QB Kellen Moore and a guy who was playing in his second start of his NFL career. This after being promoted from the Dallas practice squad Dec 2nd, 2015. Compare the stats. Kellen Moore 13 of 31 for 186, 0 TD, one INT. vs Tyrod Taylor 13 of 18 for 179, 0 TD, one INT. The bigger difference in Moore rushing for 1 attempt for -1 yards vs Taylor with 14 attempts for 47 yards. The really ironically funny thing is Brandon Weeden is 2-0 as the Texans QB after the Cowboys dumped him. Then the Bills had nearly double the net rushing yards 121 vs 236 in this game. So, the real question is why did the Clownboys keep asking the inexperienced QB to throw it up 31 times and only run the ball 25 times? Jerry Jones should fire his head coach Jason Garrett and then fire his own arse as GM. Anyway, I'm a Tyrod Taylor fan, but I also realize this young man has a lot of developing to do before naming him the "franchise" QB. Taylor did well in his first year as an NFL starting QB. As others have put it Taylor still has a bunch of holes in his game he needs to correct, and there is still the issue of his size and durability. Fans that throw out QB ratings need to remember that Greg Roman has built a run first offense that limits the amount of passing the QB does and has him throw mostly the safer passes to the single covered receivers. Taylor has yet to throw for 300 yards this season or lead big comebacks by throwing more then 30 passes successfully in a game. I'm rooting for the guy to be the next Russell Wilson, and take the Bills to the playoffs. He is exciting, and he has the whole offseason (his 5th) to improve on his game... but his QB Rating will be all that's quoted and remembered after this season. I am hoping we don't overpay this guy. This season did little to convince me he is worth another contract, and certainly not the big bucks, at least just yet. I don't know of many 1-read, scramble happy QB's that can win many games without a top D to mask their problems.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 As someone who has made a lot of excuses for bad Bills Qbs, holy crap have we set our standards low. On what planet is under 200 yards, 0 tds, and 16 points spectacular? Taylor has had some good moments this year but yesterday was not a good NFL qb display. exactly. They've been so bad for so long that putrid to mediocre looks fantastic.
BillsVet Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 This "throw over the middle" argument is a straw man and has been already proven wrong. See the stats quoted earlier. Same with throwing 30+. Going down with the ship again, eh?
fridge Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 You people are amazing. The thread title suggests Tyrod had a spectacular day. He put 16 points up on the 4-11 Cowboys. Why is it amazing that people would dispute this? You do realize he didn't throw for 300 yards with 4 TDs out there, right? I think Tyrod played an okay game, that was pretty typical for him minus maybe a bomb or two thrown in there. We'll know by next season if he's progressed or not as a QB. I don't think you or PTR are at all justified in your worship though.
boater Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Even after a win, a significant amount of Eeyore like comments. It wasn't a great win, and the situation isn't great. But it's not Stephenson/Bullough 2-14. It must be hard to go through life so negative all the time.
Dorkington Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 The thread title suggests Tyrod had a spectacular day. He put 16 points up on the 4-11 Cowboys. Why is it amazing that people would dispute this? You do realize he didn't throw for 300 yards with 4 TDs out there, right? I think Tyrod played an okay game, that was pretty typical for him minus maybe a bomb or two thrown in there. We'll know by next season if he's progressed or not as a QB. I don't think you or PTR are at all justified in your worship though. I think everything is relative, personally. He made one legitimate mistake on the day when missing a good half of his offense, with ****ty weather, against a pretty healthy Dallas D. So yeah, I think Tyrod played well yesterday. But 'well', and 'quietly spectacular' are subjective terms I guess. I just don't understand the constant shitting on him by the crowd here.
boater Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 I think everything is relative, personally. He made one legitimate mistake on the day when missing a good half of his offense, with ****ty weather, against a pretty healthy Dallas D. So yeah, I think Tyrod played well yesterday. But 'well', and 'quietly spectacular' are subjective terms I guess. I just don't understand the constant shitting on him by the crowd here. I don't understand either. I suspect, the Tyrod haters are a vocal minority. Tyrod supporters are a quiet majority, and are at work right now.
PlayoffsPlease Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Taylor's skill set is very good at moving the chains outside the Red Zone. You get the feeling he could run for 5 yards on practically every passing play outside the red zone. In the red zone though, the Bills offense becomes very limited. Taylor can't make the quick tight window throws that are an important part of a red zone offense, and as the field compresses his mobility becomes less of a factor.
Augie Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Forgot EJ started two games? I wish I could....I'm really trying! My biggest concern about Tyrod is durability, and a lot of that falls on the game plan.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Tyrod Taylor needs to prove that he understands the down, distance, clock, and situation on every single play, in order to prove that he is a franchise QB. Right now, I'm not convinced. His mental clock is off. He chucks up low-percentage fade passes on critical third and fourth and shorts. He lazily operates the two minute offense. Some of this may be on Roman but frankly, Taylor needs to start taking it on himself.Agreed. Although I blame this more in Roman. What should help is the second year in the system, knowing he is going to be the guy throughout the off season, and giving Taylor more leeway and control. This team, the entire year, was absolutely abysmal on both sides of the ball as to getting the play on. WAY, WAY too much time on offense and defense. Roman had a pretty decent year overall but that element of it he was brutal and I think he ruined the two minute and hurry up offense more than Taylor did. The goal line play wasting 20 second was brutal, although the players didn't know where to go. They never should have called that or throw that pass to Hogan. He is the last guy you throw that too. One of the major reasons the middle of the field stats are skewed is that he scrambles so much. 95% of the time on a scramble you are automatically going to throw it to a side or sideline and it's usually stupid to throw to the middle.
Billsfan1972 Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) Tyrod Taylor needs to prove that he understands the down, distance, clock, and situation on every single play, in order to prove that he is a franchise QB. Right now, I'm not convinced. His mental clock is off. He chucks up low-percentage fade passes on critical third and fourth and shorts. He lazily operates the two minute offense. Some of this may be on Roman but frankly, Taylor needs to start taking it on himself. He is the Bills qb there is no arguing or debating the facts. For 2016 TT (and Roman) needs to work on the following: Clock Management Reading defenses Getting Watkins 10+ targets a game (again only 6 yesterday and barely looked at him) Throws over the middle Better reads on 3rd & short 2 minute offense YAC One thing I saw yesterday was actual different formations and movement on the line and by the receivers. Edited December 28, 2015 by Billsfan1972
Kelly the Dog Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Generally agree with all this. We are only averaging 2 more points than last year though. But this year is clearly on the defense. They didn't live up to their end of the bargain. With the difference in the way the defense played, two more points is probably closer to nine points. Meaning if we had last year's defense we would have scored about an extra TD per game considering the amount of extra number of plays, especially field position, and turnovers. Yesterday was a great example. We would give up a few first downs it seemed and then hold the Cowboys. They would punt but we would start between our 10-20. It's tough to go 80-90 yards versus 50-60.
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