GunnerBill Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 My standard Tyrod post: - he's exceeded my expectations - he still doesn't see the middle of the field, holds the ball too long, and bails from he pocket instead of climbing to safety - he's done enough to merit going into the offseason as the starter - a veteran backup should be signed - a high draft pick (rd 1-3) should be used on a potential franchise guy 100% correct.
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 No one compared Taylor to Holcomb except for you. Of course you would take Taylor over Holcomb 100/100 times. 300 yard games are not a complete barometer for QB success, I agree with that. I do think that yardage is a qualifier for "spectacular," which I believe is the essence of this thread. Holcomb is just an example of how you can both be a bum and produce a 300 yard day. There is a litany of such QBs.
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 Tyrod is the only reason this team sucked this year. Sorry. lol
PromoTheRobot Posted December 29, 2015 Author Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) Tyrod is the only reason this team sucked this year. Sorry. lol /thread Edited December 29, 2015 by PromoTheRobot
3rdand12 Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 100% correct. agreed Tyrod is the only reason this team sucked this year. Sorry. lol wtf is wrong with you /thread BTW i seriously enjoyed your optimism. He has been a beacon of hope. and damn if he has not tried to lead by example. But he better listen to Eric Wood, and take care of himself for the long term
BarleyNY Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 My standard Tyrod post: - he's exceeded my expectations - he still doesn't see the middle of the field, holds the ball too long, and bails from he pocket instead of climbing to safety - he's done enough to merit going into the offseason as the starter - a veteran backup should be signed - a high draft pick (rd 1-3) should be used on a potential franchise guy This is all true, but I'll add: Taylor has often run when he doesn't see a receiver open, including times he hasn't properly gone through progressions to find someone who is open. He's to be complimented that he's made a lot of positive plays instead of negative ones in those instances. But he's still not recognizing open receivers in some instances and he's taking a lot of additional punishment by pulling the ball down so often. He threw 18 times and ran 14 times against Dallas. Maybe 2 or so of those runs were called. So that means he pulled the ball down and ran on pass plays about 40% of the time in that game. That's way too much. I wish I knew the season numbers. If Roman called more pass plays and he kept up that running percentage Taylor would get killed. He's got to improve his reads and progressions or this is his ceiling.
3rdand12 Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 This is all true, but I'll add: Taylor has often run when he doesn't see a receiver open, including times he hasn't properly gone through progressions to find someone who is open. He's to be complimented that he's made a lot of positive plays instead of negative ones in those instances. But he's still not recognizing open receivers in some instances and he's taking a lot of additional punishment by pulling the ball down so often. He threw 18 times and ran 14 times against Dallas. Maybe 2 or so of those runs were called. So that means he pulled the ball down and ran on pass plays about 40% of the time in that game. That's way too much. I wish I knew the season numbers. If Roman called more pass plays and he kept up that running percentage Taylor would get killed. He's got to improve his reads and progressions or this is his ceiling. He has progressed, and i did notice his eyes moving when i can see them via TV finally. I will consider him a work in progress. But worth the investment. But Bills still need to stay in tune to finding The Guy. ya never know.. But yea Barley he needs to make some steps forward under Romans program for the team and his long term health.
PlayoffsPlease Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 So then there's like... 3 franchise QBs? Brady, Rodgers, and Newton? Big Ben, Russell Wilson belong in that conversation. Brees does too, but really suffers from extremely bad surrounding talent. 6 QBs, thats about 20% of the leauge.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 29, 2015 Author Posted December 29, 2015 Big Ben, Russell Wilson belong in that conversation. Brees does too, but really suffers from extremely bad surrounding talent. 6 QBs, thats about 20% of the leauge. Carson Palmer? 7.
Nihilarian Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 Me thinks that Bills fans GROSSLY overestimate the play of the offensive line because of the run game when they mostly sucked at pass blocking, and GROSSLY underestimate Taylor's escapability, scrambling, throwing on the run, and actual running as an element of his overall QB play, even if they acknowledge he's a sensational runner. Given the protection he got, he was extraordinary and one of the very best in the league at getting production from those snaps. As far as actual production he was in the middle of the league, which was very good. I agree with this and three good players on a line doesn't make it great by any means. I also want to add that the Bills receiver corps really isn't as great as the fans think it is. The Bills still lacking that big WR target like a Mike Evans, Brandon Marshall, and past the #1, the rest are not so good IMO. Tyrod did well in his first year of starting in an offense purposely limited by design in the passing game. I also feel the offense would have been helped greatly this year with even a top 15 defense and one that did better than 30th in sacks. A better defense gives the offense more opportunities / chances with the ball rather than the long drives from opponenets that ensued this year. .
GunnerBill Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 Our line is definitely better run blocking than pass blocking at this point - no question about that. Incognito has had some wobbles in pass protection down the stretch, Glenn seems to struggle with pure speed rushers (and deals better oddly with some of the better technicians at the DE spot) and Miller is a below league average pass protector at this stage whilst right tackle has been a turnstile. However, that shouldn't be a surprise.... Rex and Roman want to be a run first football team and Whaley himself comes from that Pittsburgh model of you run to protect a young Quarterback. They drafted a guard who everyone knew was a really solid run blocker who was very raw in pass protection, they signed Incognito who was known as a strong run blocker.... they were building this line for the team they wanted. They then also picked a QB who cover up some of the deficiencies there might be in pass protection. This team is built the way they wanted to build it.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 Once again....htf can you even make a statement like that. You have nothing to base it on....absolutley nothing. Lol the heartache is real
GunnerBill Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 Carson Palmer? 7. I think there are 3 elite quarterbacks in the NFL today - Brady, Rodgers and Roethlisberger. There are then from that point somewhere from 12 to 15 Franchise Quarterbacks and then there is everyone else who is still looking for the guy. However, even within the still looking bracket there are those who might have found the answer and those who definitely haven't. The Bills for me are in the former group with the Raiders (Carr), Jags (Bortles), Vikings (Bridgewater), Buccs (Winston) and Titans (Mariota). The latter group is Houston, Cleveland, Philly, St Louis, San Fran and then more contentiously in my opinion - the Jets (Fitz is a stopgap and is a FA), the Dolphins (they are going nowhere with Tannehill), the Broncos (not sold at all on Brock).
Nanker Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 Personally, I think Fitz is a better qb than Taylor. Obviously with more time, this can change. And I think it will. Fitz has been a starter for 104 games in his 11 year career. He started more games for St Louis and Cincy than Tyrod has for The Bills this year. Fitz has had a lot of time to develop on the field. TT's just starting out and I think he's a much better athlete than Fitz. Knowledge will come with experience. But he needs better OLine help to make that happen. JMHO.
Jmsbills Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 It's a throwing league and when your QB loses most game when throwing over 20 passes your in trouble. Three wins when throwing over over passes is not a long term answer at QB. Wins against Miami, NYJ and Houston with 29, 27 and 21 attempts and losses in all other games he throws over 20 times is not a receipe for success in today's NFL. Yes you can beat the bad teams that way but will never have a chance to win big meaningful games or playoff games on a regular basis with that type of QB production.
Agent 91 Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 The way I see it a true Franchise QB has the ability to carry his team to victory on a regular basis. His team goes into games expecting to win because they know he's the guy who can elevate the team to a win under almost any circumstance. I like both definitions Wins are a TEAM stat...not a QB stat I think it would also be interesting to see a chart of the percentage of throws to the areas of the field over the course of the 16 game season It seems to me that TT worked the sidelines pretty heavy early in the season......and started working the middle a lot more as the season went on. Just like productivity from working from the pocket......to my naked eye was not great in the beginning and throws improved as the season went on. I saw him climb the pocket on a play yesterday and make a great throw once again.......progression They broke it down for brady who was perfectly even. And I think Kaepernick under Roman and someone else. I appologize. Any rate.Kaepernick and Taylor were the only 2 to have such a large deviation. There was even 1 or 2 they mentioned who throw the ball over the middle more than anything. They basically deduced that Romans system calls for those passes, most likely to open up the middle for running I'm sorry, but Hogan would've been the LAST person I would've thrown the ball too in that situation. Sammy Watkins was the ONLY OPTION To you and me... but not tbe guy throwing the ball. HE NEVER EVEN LOOKED LEFT.
Agent 91 Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 The guy has 13 starts, doesn't matter how long he backed up Flacco. You don't get a sense for the speed of the game in practice and it certainly doesn't come from watching on the sidelines. 3rd down conversions aren't only on the QB, a lot of it has to do with play calling. I think Roman's play calling in critical situations is atrocious. If you want Tyrod to pass for a first down he's gotta have more than 2 routes to choose from. People criticize his tendency to throw it up down the sideline in those spots but he's throwing to Watkins so my question is, why is your best receiver running a go/fly on 3rd and 8? Seems to be a regular thing. I think Clay was seeing a lot of targets because he is at least running a sensible route in those situations. And don't even get me started on the short passing game. I loved seeing Bridgewater stand up from center and shoot a pass to his outside receiver last night. Watkins made his living off of those kinds of plays in college and Roman hasn't done it once. You can't just point at the guy with 13 starts and put it all on him. The defense regressed significantly this year, they have over a half mile in penalties, the play calling is suspect on 3rd down and in the red zone and I can't remember a team with more injuries (maybe under Jauron?). The whole team has struggled this year and I think Tyrod is the least of worries. I dont THINK anyone is putting it on Tyrod. What i think the major grievance is with the people who want to force him into elite franchize mode. I bet you Tyrod is teetering on the line of qualifying for most of his accolades. I would be curious how he falls in line with regular starting qbs with atleast 13 games this year. Basically passing attempts, yards, completions. We know the TDs and completion percentage is not too skewed. But when your qb throws under 20 times multiple times in a season. He better have a high completion percentage. Just curious where he stacks up
1billsfan Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 It's a throwing league and when your QB loses most game when throwing over 20 passes your in trouble. Three wins when throwing over over passes is not a long term answer at QB. Wins against Miami, NYJ and Houston with 29, 27 and 21 attempts and losses in all other games he throws over 20 times is not a receipe for success in today's NFL. Yes you can beat the bad teams that way but will never have a chance to win big meaningful games or playoff games on a regular basis with that type of QB production. I think fans here forget about the most important aspect about being a viable starting QB in the NFL. It's not about completion percentages or QBR, it's about what you do in the fourth quarter when your team needs big plays in the passing game to win the close games. This is Taylor's biggest failure so far, but it's something you can chalk up to fact that he's still developing as a starting QB. It's not a knock, it just is what it is right now. The best thing for the Bills on Sunday would be for Taylor to win this game with his arm in the final seconds. It would go a long way for him and this team to have confidence that he is getting it and turning the corner to becoming the long term answer. If he doesn't and they lose that doesn't mean he's not the answer, just that he still has next year to prove he can eventually do it. But at some point he needs to start doing this or it's on to another QB.
Boolay Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 I think fans here forget about the most important aspect about being a viable starting QB in the NFL. It's not about completion percentages or QBR, it's about what you do in the fourth quarter when your team needs big plays in the passing game to win the close games. This is Taylor's biggest failure so far, but it's something you can chalk up to fact that he's still developing as a starting QB. It's not a knock, it just is what it is right now. The best thing for the Bills on Sunday would be for Taylor to win this game with his arm in the final seconds. It would go a long way for him and this team to have confidence that he is getting it and turning the corner to becoming the long term answer. If he doesn't and they lose that doesn't mean he's not the answer, just that he still has next year to prove he can eventually do it. But at some point he needs to start doing this or it's on to another QB. I'll settle for winning in a blow out to shut these !@#$ing Jets fans up
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 This is all true, but I'll add: Taylor has often run when he doesn't see a receiver open, including times he hasn't properly gone through progressions to find someone who is open. He's to be complimented that he's made a lot of positive plays instead of negative ones in those instances. But he's still not recognizing open receivers in some instances and he's taking a lot of additional punishment by pulling the ball down so often. He threw 18 times and ran 14 times against Dallas. Maybe 2 or so of those runs were called. So that means he pulled the ball down and ran on pass plays about 40% of the time in that game. That's way too much. I wish I knew the season numbers. If Roman called more pass plays and he kept up that running percentage Taylor would get killed. He's got to improve his reads and progressions or this is his ceiling. His assessment of Tyrod Taylor and his development was the best part of Whaley's WGR interview. While carefully positive, Whaley clearly laid out what Taylor needs to do to take the next step. I hope Tyrod is listening. OTOH, a lot of what Tyrod needs to do depends on having an upgraded rt. side of the line in front of him.
Recommended Posts