Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 I'd believe Peyton but for the fact that there seems to be no denial that his wife got HGH from the same clinic. I'm not sure what condition she could have had that would have called for HGH, and he's invoking her medical privacy to avoid that topic (which is, of course, his right). Does anyone know of cases in which 30-something women are prescribed HGH? Why would they be? There are several, including short bowel syndrome, pituitary tumors, any disease causing muscle wasting, adult growth hormone deficiency. Normally these conditions would have HGH prescribed by an appropriate specialist physician in the patient's home town, not by some sleezeball doc in Peter Pan's Clinic of Neverland and shipped all over the country.
Nervous Guy Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 I'd believe Peyton but for the fact that there seems to be no denial that his wife got HGH from the same clinic. I'm not sure what condition she could have had that would have called for HGH, and he's invoking her medical privacy to avoid that topic (which is, of course, his right). Does anyone know of cases in which 30-something women are prescribed HGH? Why would they be? https://www.hght.com/hgh-therapy/hgh-therapy-for-women/ http://www.vanityfair.com/style/2012/03/human-grown-hormone-hollywood-201203
The Frankish Reich Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 There are several, including short bowel syndrome, pituitary tumors, any disease causing muscle wasting, adult growth hormone deficiency. Normally these conditions would have HGH prescribed by an appropriate specialist physician in the patient's home town, not by some sleezeball doc in Peter Pan's Clinic of Neverland and shipped all over the country. Thanks .. Makes sense to me (although presumably the Mannings were living in Indianapolis at the time they were associated with the sleazeball doc).
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Whoops, looks like the stellar journalistic organization that is al-Jazeera may have been taken for a ride.
dpberr Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 It would make sense to take HGH when he had the neck problems. He probably had significant muscle atrophy in his arms and his legs from the injury AND the surgery. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find out his doctors recommended he take it. That being said, I don't think he's taken it since - I think the decreased arm strength and the mobility is evidence of that. Neck surgery, like back surgery is like messing around with the frame of a car - it's never quite the same. I for one, don't have a problem with players taking HGH. The deficiency of the hormone (men make less and less of it as we age) piles on to the already damaging effect of concussions.
The Frankish Reich Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Whoops, looks like the stellar journalistic organization that is al-Jazeera may have been taken for a ride. Peyton was smart hiring Ari Fleischer's PR firm ... they got out ahead of this and have already shown that the source wasn't working at the clinic when the Mannings were in Indianapolis. Nice work ... but having said that, the suspicions will still never go away. I don't expect any lawsuit here since that would just keep the story alive for years.
aristocrat Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Peyton was smart hiring Ari Fleischer's PR firm ... they got out ahead of this and have already shown that the source wasn't working at the clinic when the Mannings were in Indianapolis. Nice work ... but having said that, the suspicions will still never go away. I don't expect any lawsuit here since that would just keep the story alive for years. If manning is truly innocent he will and should sue. It might keep irresponsible reports like this one from coming out.
buffalonian Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Mort is on mike and Mike saying the source was an intern that worked there 2 years after the mannings were associated and is saying he told the reporter made up crazy things just to see if they would run with it. Could be interesting. Al Jazeera says he worked there in 2011 overlapping manning and manning says its 2013 for just 3 months as an intern(backed by mort currently) I wonder if he is back tracking because he was videotaped violating federal drug laws and HIPPA regulations. It is an interesting question whether the reporter should have included the segment about Manning in her documentary. On one hand, the "pharmacist" who made the allegations about Manning was also videotaped providing steroids to a baseball player for the Cubs in the documentary, and providing drugs to the undercover English athlete. There are also apparently employment records showing that the guy worked at the clinic where Manning's wife was being treated with HGH. On the other hand, there was no direct evidence, beyond this one guy's videotaped admission, that Manning was using the HGH himself. I guess the question is, how much evidence should you have before you file a news report?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Thanks .. Makes sense to me (although presumably the Mannings were living in Indianapolis at the time they were associated with the sleazeball doc). The claim is that the HGH was mailed all over the country to Manning's wife (eg to Miami etc). That wouldn't be typical practice for medical treatment - either the patient would return to their home town for treatment or, a referral and medical records would be provided to physicians in the 2nd city and treatment provided there, because the treating physician wants to monitor the treatment for efficacy and side effects. I guess I should expand my comments a little and reiterate that a couple of the claims this Sly (what a name) makes don't make sense to me - eg providing percoset to Clay Matthews, why would he come to Indianapolis to get a pain reliever that is pretty commonly prescribed to football players by team physicians after a game? so I feel judgement should be reserved here. I also feel at the time (2011) Manning reportedly had muscle atrophy in his right arm and shoulder due to nerve damage, and use of HGH to treat it might be appropriate medically, especially since he wasn't on the field playing football at all that season.
Mr. WEO Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 i heard that too. It sounds like this was a bad reporting job and al jazeera is gonna owe manning some money. Unless Manning can prove that AJ knowingly reported false information, he won't get any money for "bad reporting". http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/28/sports/football/claims-of-peyton-manning-doping-raise-nagging-questions.html?ref=sports&_r=0 Rather the shock would be to discover that more than a few men in this morally compromised sport are completely clean. In the last two decades, the weight of N.F.L. linemen has jumped by 50, 60, 70 pounds, and men the size of linebackers play wide receiver." It's always a laugh to see the hand wringers at the Times commenting on sports. This guy doesn't seem to have been alive when the NFL was rife with anabolic steroids (and amphetamines, cocaine, etc) throughout the 60s-70s-80s... He doesn't seem to see that the competition to make it to the NFL is orders of magnitude higher than it was 20 years ago and therefore the methods of selecting, training and even feeding these guys beginning in high school has led to bigger stronger faster players. It's not all "dope" related.
Nervous Guy Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Unless Manning can prove that AJ knowingly reported false information, he won't get any money for "bad reporting". defamation n. the act of making untrue statements about another which damages his/her reputation. If the defamatory statement is printed or broadcast over the media it is libel and, if only oral, it is slander. Public figures, including officeholders and candidates, have to show that the defamation was made with malicious intent and was not just fair comment. Damages for slander may be limited to actual (special) damages unless there is malice. Some statements such as an accusation of having committed a crime, having a feared disease or being unable to perform one's occupation are called libel per se or slander per se and can more easily lead to large money awards in court and even punitive damage recovery by the person harmed. Most states provide for a demand for a printed retraction of defamation and only allow a lawsuit if there is no such admission of error. Read more: http://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx?selected=458#ixzz3vco7XfJO
KD in CA Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Unless Manning can prove that AJ knowingly reported false information, he won't get any money for "bad reporting". It's always a laugh to see the hand wringers at the Times commenting on sports. This guy doesn't seem to have been alive when the NFL was rife with anabolic steroids (and amphetamines, cocaine, etc) throughout the 60s-70s-80s... He doesn't seem to see that the competition to make it to the NFL is orders of magnitude higher than it was 20 years ago and therefore the methods of selecting, training and even feeding these guys beginning in high school has led to bigger stronger faster players. It's not all "dope" related. Once upon a time the NY Times sports page was quite good. But they turned the sports page (along with the entire newspaper) over to the same crew who writes their Op-Ed page many years ago.
Mr. WEO Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Peyton was smart hiring Ari Fleischer's PR firm ... they got out ahead of this and have already shown that the source wasn't working at the clinic when the Mannings were in Indianapolis. Nice work ... but having said that, the suspicions will still never go away. I don't expect any lawsuit here since that would just keep the story alive for years. True. Fleischer is a pro at lying to the public--an Administration paid him to do that for years.
dave mcbride Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) Once upon a time the NY Times sports page was quite good. But they turned the sports page (along with the entire newspaper) over to the same crew who writes their Op-Ed page many years ago.Wrong - the nyt sports section has ALWAYS sucked, going back to when I was a kid. I just thought quote was interesting because i was unaware that his arm had withered to such an extent due to atrophy. And ironically, i'd say it's better than it has ever been because of tyler keppner and their other baseball writers, who are among the best in the biz. Edited December 28, 2015 by dave mcbride
Mr. WEO Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 defamation n. the act of making untrue statements about another which damages his/her reputation. If the defamatory statement is printed or broadcast over the media it is libel and, if only oral, it is slander. Public figures, including officeholders and candidates, have to show that the defamation was made with malicious intent and was not just fair comment. Damages for slander may be limited to actual (special) damages unless there is malice. Some statements such as an accusation of having committed a crime, having a feared disease or being unable to perform one's occupation are called libel per se or slander per se and can more easily lead to large money awards in court and even punitive damage recovery by the person harmed. Most states provide for a demand for a printed retraction of defamation and only allow a lawsuit if there is no such admission of error. Read more: http://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx?selected=458#ixzz3vco7XfJO As your post clearly says, he would have to prove malicious intent. There is no accusation of a crime, disease or being unable to perform his job. No suit here. Wrong - the nyt sports section has ALWAYS sucked, going back to when I was a kid. I just thought quote was interesting because i was unaware that his arm had withered to such an extent due to atrophy. And ironically, i'd say it's better than it has ever been because of tyler keppner and their other baseball writers, who are among the best in the biz. Baseball is the perfect speed for the NYT sports. They should just do that.
KD in CA Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Wrong - the nyt sports section has ALWAYS sucked, going back to when I was a kid. I just thought quote was interesting because i was unaware that his arm had withered to such an extent due to atrophy. And ironically, i'd say it's better than it has ever been because of tyler keppner and their other baseball writers, who are among the best in the biz. So how do you know his arm did wither? Because it was written in the Times? lol While I've always enjoyed the sports coverage in the tabloids, I recall the NYT sports being pretty good back in the 80s.
Nervous Guy Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 As your post clearly says, he would have to prove malicious intent. There is no accusation of a crime, disease or being unable to perform his job. No suit here. nope...using HGH is illegal, arm withering...etc...doesn't have to be malicious, just printed for the per se ruling.
dave mcbride Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 So how do you know his arm did wither? Because it was written in the Times? lol While I've always enjoyed the sports coverage in the tabloids, I recall the NYT sports being pretty good back in the 80s. It's always been second tier to the tabs. As for whether to believe it or not, Michael Powell is a good reporter (not so great of a columnist, but that's a different issue). But it's a moot point regardless: he's relying on a deeply reported WaPo story (Sally Jenkins: cue the haters) for his description of the arm: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/peyton-manning-on-his-neck-surgeries-rehab--and-how-he-almost-didnt-make-it-back/2013/10/21/8e3b5ca6-3a55-11e3-b7ba-503fb5822c3e_story.html . So yeah, I believe Powell -- and by proxy the Times.
YoloinOhio Posted December 29, 2015 Author Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) @ajam Al Jazeera's recorded phone call with Guyer Clinic confirming Charles Sly's 2011 presence there 1:20 in https://amp.twimg.com/v/8199da16-ecd7-49f6-ae11-c8715336c8d3 Edited December 29, 2015 by YoloinOhio
Rico Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 If manning is truly innocent he will and should sue. It might keep irresponsible reports like this one from coming out. He should just STFU before they start digging & real dirt comes out on him.
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