BADOLBILZ Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 I've never even heard of Al Jazeera before this. They were once known as the mouthpiece of middle eastern terrorism. Now they are apparently viewed as one of the more objective world news outlets.
Beerball Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Half the players do that stuff. Im sure Tommy boy is as well Wrong... /sarcasm
dave mcbride Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) They were once known as the mouthpiece of middle eastern terrorism. Now they are apparently viewed as one of the more objective world news outlets. They're a good news outlet. My big question: We know that hgh has healing properties w/regard to muscle tissue, and Manning is alleged to have taken while recovering from MULTIPLE NECK SURGERIES! Why is this a problem?? There is so much misinformation out there. The league wants their stars to have 10 year plus careers, but that ain't happenin' without hgh. Football isn't like mlb either -- it's the ultimate team sport, and no one really obsesses about individual stats. Yeah I think HGH is much more prevalent than people realize. Back in the day I used to take a product called androstenoine........it was an over the counter protein shake item in the 90's but now a banned substance in pro sports.......and while it packed on the muscle fast I didn't think it made me more athletic. The biggest advantage was that muscle injuries that I felt would have taken weeks to heal would be healed literally overnight. Interesting - thanks. Edited December 28, 2015 by dave mcbride
BADOLBILZ Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 They're a good news outlet. My big question: We know that hgh has healing properties w/regard to muscle tissue, and Manning is alleged to have taken while recovering from MULTIPLE NECK SURGERIES! Why is this a problem?? There is so much misinformation out there. The league wants their stars to have 10 year plus careers, but that ain't happenin' without hgh. Football isn't like mlb either -- it's the ultimate team sport, and no one really obsesses about individual stats. Interesting - thanks. I think what a lot of these guys find with some of the "supplements" is that they work very well initially, but like most drugs your body adapts and then you either have to use more or something else to keep advancing.........if not they just kind of become a way to heal faster. In terms of performance boost, I think HGH has proven to be kinda' weak. There are some great athletes in the NFL and the frames are bigger now then they used to be.......but when you watch some of those late 80's and early 90's NFL clips those guys look like action figures by comparison to the players of today.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 NFL guys alleged in HGH report: Broncos Manning, Steelers Harrison, Packers' Neal, Peppers (Matthews w/ painkillers), Dolphins' Keller. The Clay Matthews thing rings false to me. It's pretty routine for players to be prescribed Torodol and opiate painkillers by team physicians for various "routine" injuries that cause pain. As long as the physician has actually seen the player as a patient and the patient legitimately has an owie causing pain (guaranteed after any NFL game) that's not illegal at all as far as I know. Why would Matthews have to deal with this shady dude for that kind of stuff? They're a good news outlet. My big question: We know that hgh has healing properties w/regard to muscle tissue, and Manning is alleged to have taken while recovering from MULTIPLE NECK SURGERIES! Why is this a problem?? I have this question also. While "off label", it seems to me that taking HGH while NOT playing football in 2011 and recovering from neck surgery, would be a legitimate medical off label use. How can it be an illegal performance-enhancing drug if the guy took it while not performing? If it forces them to test for HGH.....IMO it could really lower the availability of players and quality of play. The league is testing for HGH. It started in 2014. The problem is they're testing in kind of a useless way. They're testing blood for two different forms of HGH. The ratio is different with rHGH vs natural HGH produced by the body. What makes it useless is that the test can only detect if the player uses HGH within 24 or at most 48 hrs of the test. The NFL is not allowed to test on game day, or to test outside team facilities except with 24 hr notice. So you do the math....
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 This is a completely ignorant statement. Low dose HGH in men has many beneficial effects including significantly improved recovery from injury, improved lean mass to body fat ratio, and will potentiate the effects of low dose testosterone replacement. Like any substance, it can be abused and have negative effects if it is. The few studies out there (because there is active suppression of these studies by the government) show a tremendous improvement in quality of life indicators with near zero negative effects. Not cancer, not stokes, not heart attacks. Why does the government actively suppress this research? It's simple. The only reason women were on estrogen replacement during menopause which Medicare paid for was because of quality of life reasons. If every guy was on HGH/testosterone for quality of life reasons, Medicare would go bankrupt. Where estrogen replacement showed some increase in certain cancers, there is no such increase with HGH/testosterone. The above is not correct. First, the government has no real ability to "actively suppress research". They can suppress research they fund by...... not funding it, but if there really were a major market for a biopharmaceutical produced and marketed by major drug companies (that would include HGH which includes players such as Genentech and Pfizer), the drug companies would be glad to pay for the research and publish it too. Very hard to suppress publication in the internet age. Second, prolonged elevated HGH does have some serious side effects which would likely preclude its general prescription for "quality of life" on ethical grounds. HGH can cause or exacerbate carpal tunnel syndrome, due to muscle growth which puts pressure on the tunnel through which the nerves to the fingers pass (Hmmm...something about Peyton not having feeling in his fingers?). It is known to cause more rapid growth of existing cancerous tumors. It can cause abnormal growth of bone and cartilage, leading to joint pain. It can cause altered insulin sensitivity, leading to more susceptibility to diabetes. Long-term use can cause altered water retention, leading to impaired kidney function and cardiac function. In short, is HGH a helpful drug to accelerate recovery from injury, yes, likely so. Does it have serious documented side effects? Yes. Would those known, carefully studied side effects preclude its ethical use as a general "quality of life" enhancer for the general population without any need for theoretical "government suppression", sorry, I'm afraid so.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 The Clay Matthews thing rings false to me. It's pretty routine for players to be prescribed Torodol and opiate painkillers by team physicians for various "routine" injuries that cause pain. As long as the physician has actually seen the player as a patient and the patient legitimately has an owie causing pain (guaranteed after any NFL game) that's not illegal at all as far as I know. Why would Matthews have to deal with this shady dude for that kind of stuff? I have this question also. While "off label", it seems to me that taking HGH while NOT playing football in 2011 and recovering from neck surgery, would be a legitimate medical off label use. How can it be an illegal performance-enhancing drug if the guy took it while not performing? The league is testing for HGH. It started in 2014. The problem is they're testing in kind of a useless way. They're testing blood for two different forms of HGH. The ratio is different with rHGH vs natural HGH produced by the body. What makes it useless is that the test can only detect if the player uses HGH within 24 or at most 48 hrs of the test. The NFL is not allowed to test on game day, or to test outside team facilities except with 24 hr notice. So you do the math.... Yes thanks for the clarification. I know the league and the union do not want to crack down on HGH. Football is a rogue's game.......not referring to Whaley's GM'ing........and the world is pretty much determined to find a way to turn it into a proper sport and depending on your take on the matter you like it or hate it. If you don't like it......look no further than ownership. You can't expect to get milk the economy on such a broad scale and not conform to generally accepted standards of humane treatment of each other..........even if the people involved prefer the coarse nature of the game.
The Frankish Reich Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Just gonna say in Peyton's defense that his wife appears to be no stranger to certain enhancing treatments: https://www.google.com/search?q=peyton+manning+wife&rlz=1C1PRFC_enUS604US604&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFpMT04f3JAhWsoYMKHW6DALAQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=Q_XubeCJwxyPDM%3A
Greg F Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 If you want objective world and American news coverage you should watch something like Al Jazeera or the BBC or PBS News Hour (although News Hour is not a 24 hour program).
machine gun kelly Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Interestingly, HGH was not only not tested in 2011, it was not even illegal per NFL rules that year. Now it is in the new CBA, but is still not tested.
Bill from NYC Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 I think what a lot of these guys find with some of the "supplements" is that they work very well initially, but like most drugs your body adapts and then you either have to use more or something else to keep advancing.........if not they just kind of become a way to heal faster. In terms of performance boost, I think HGH has proven to be kinda' weak. There are some great athletes in the NFL and the frames are bigger now then they used to be.......but when you watch some of those late 80's and early 90's NFL clips those guys look like action figures by comparison to the players of today. I belong to a "normal" gym and I think that a high percentage of the people in there are juicing. When I was much younger, I used to do 20 clean marine pull-ups. I am talking all the way down. I have long arms so this and the bench were harder for me. The other day, I saw a guy doing SETS of 20 marine pull-ups with (2) 45 pound plates attached to his waist. I didn't count the sets but he did more than 6 or 7. He might have done 10. Then, he started lifting weights. Is this normal? Can one do this without enhancements? I never really believed that NFL players were not juicing. I looked up Mario Williams's combine numbers. The man did 35 reps with 225. I realize that these are some of the strongest men on earth but given his frame, this would not seem possible. And, I watched Cornelius Bennett in college (yes, sadly I am that old). He absolutely did NOT look anything like he did on the Bills, where his neck looked like a tree trunk. In my very uneducated opinion, NFL owners do want players to juice. They also have to pretend to be against it because of getting sued. There is WAY too much money at stake.
papazoid Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 i say he took it. good luck proving it. expect a big lawsuit to protect his endorsement money.
NoSaint Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Mort is on mike and Mike saying the source was an intern that worked there 2 years after the mannings were associated and is saying he told the reporter made up crazy things just to see if they would run with it. Could be interesting. Al Jazeera says he worked there in 2011 overlapping manning and manning says its 2013 for just 3 months as an intern(backed by mort currently)
buffalonian Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 I feel for your disillusionment. You have a severe case of it. "Disillusionment"? I'm fairly certain that you are wrong about that. Further, I don't know how one can be "disillusioned" by liking a particular news show that is more objective than most others. There is nothing unexpectedly false about having that preference, even if you happen to believe something else. AJ and the BBC might not be perfect, but they are the best television news outlets available that I know of. Perhaps I am wrong and you could direct me to something better. I'm rather open minded and would be happy if you showed me a better alternative.
aristocrat Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Mort is on mike and Mike saying the source was an intern that worked there 2 years after the mannings were associated and is saying he told the reporter made up crazy things just to see if they would run with it. Could be interesting. Al Jazeera says he worked there in 2011 overlapping manning and manning says its 2013 for just 3 months as an intern(backed by mort currently) i heard that too. It sounds like this was a bad reporting job and al jazeera is gonna owe manning some money.
KD in CA Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Mort is on mike and Mike saying the source was an intern that worked there 2 years after the mannings were associated and is saying he told the reporter made up crazy things just to see if they would run with it. Could be interesting. Al Jazeera says he worked there in 2011 overlapping manning and manning says its 2013 for just 3 months as an intern(backed by mort currently) And it worked. Welcome to journalism in the 21st century.
The Frankish Reich Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 And it worked. Welcome to journalism in the 21st century. I'd believe Peyton but for the fact that there seems to be no denial that his wife got HGH from the same clinic. I'm not sure what condition she could have had that would have called for HGH, and he's invoking her medical privacy to avoid that topic (which is, of course, his right). Does anyone know of cases in which 30-something women are prescribed HGH? Why would they be?
Nervous Guy Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 i heard that too. It sounds like this was a bad reporting job and al jazeera is gonna owe manning some money. but I thought AJ was the best source for news...after all, they are unbiased and professional, unlike US news sources.
dave mcbride Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/28/sports/football/claims-of-peyton-manning-doping-raise-nagging-questions.html?ref=sports&_r=0 Focus on the first paragraph: "Lets back up this garbage truck. In 2011, we had a 36-year-old quarterback who could not grip a football properly. His triceps had withered, and his right arm had turned into a frail reed. He needed spinal fusion surgery, the insertion of a titanium plate in his neck, and that came on the heels of earlier neck operations. Peyton Manning was trying desperately to get back into shape in hopes of returning to football, even though his neck and spine were in a state of disrepair. And the N.F.L., the players union and all of us fans were all right with that. The shock is not that this fading star is reported in an investigative documentary by Al Jazeera to have obtained human growth hormone. He denies this, vehemently, angrily, and well get to his protestations. Rather the shock would be to discover that more than a few men in this morally compromised sport are completely clean. In the last two decades, the weight of N.F.L. linemen has jumped by 50, 60, 70 pounds, and men the size of linebackers play wide receiver." I'd believe Peyton but for the fact that there seems to be no denial that his wife got HGH from the same clinic. I'm not sure what condition she could have had that would have called for HGH, and he's invoking her medical privacy to avoid that topic (which is, of course, his right). Does anyone know of cases in which 30-something women are prescribed HGH? Why would they be?At the time of these surgeries, the league and players didn't even have a cba (lockout). What he did then didn't fall under any governance structure because there wasn't one. Edited December 28, 2015 by dave mcbride
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