BringBackOrton Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 Don't think this is correct. TT was passing to all spots on the field the last few weeks - with perhaps the only exception being short middle. Roman designed some creative stuff but as other shave pointed out he has opened up the passing game as the season went along. Is that confidence in TT? is it a healthy Watkins? What would this offense have looked like with a healthy Goodwin and/or Harvin?? Highly doubt Goodwin and/or Harvin were the missing link this year.
Maury Ballstein Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 A lot of teams are using a physical running game to batter and soften the opposing defenses and create time for their QB and space for their receivers. It's common sense.......the ground game has been used to impose the physical will of a team for as long as the game has been around. Teams will gladly take a lower ypc in exchange for the effect of pounding on a defensive front. The Bills got low ypc from McCoy while not getting the physical impact they needed from their running game so the volume of carries didn't really have the impact it should have. Someone get Jerome Bettis on the phone. Gotta punish these defenders. Running around them is a fools game.
klos63 Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 McCoy is not a punishing back at all. Much of the league is instead going to less nifty 220-230 pound backs who knock the sh*t out of nickel defenses. It has an impact. It's hard to watch an NFL game and not see a DB get trucked and concussed because the 7th man in the box is usually a little DB nowadays. There was a time when you ran the ball to tire a defense......now you run the ball to tire them and hopefully injure some of their key pass defenders. You don't get that with McCoy. His objective is to get out of bounds and avoid the hit. That's not to say he can't take a hit.......he just doesn't give them back. That allows teams to stay in nickel or dime despite the fact that the Bills run it as effectively yardage-wise as anyone. It's also why the sudden insertion of Williams or Gillislee often produces a big play. The big play is nice but they need more physical runs in their offense. When McCoy went out last week the run game got much more physical and the pass protection got considerably better.....opening up the deep ball for some second half scores. I agree McCoy is not a punishing back. Disagree with everything else you wrote. McCoy is not a punishing back at all. Much of the league is instead going to less nifty 220-230 pound backs who knock the sh*t out of nickel defenses. It has an impact. It's hard to watch an NFL game and not see a DB get trucked and concussed because the 7th man in the box is usually a little DB nowadays. There was a time when you ran the ball to tire a defense......now you run the ball to tire them and hopefully injure some of their key pass defenders. You don't get that with McCoy. His objective is to get out of bounds and avoid the hit. That's not to say he can't take a hit.......he just doesn't give them back. That allows teams to stay in nickel or dime despite the fact that the Bills run it as effectively yardage-wise as anyone. It's also why the sudden insertion of Williams or Gillislee often produces a big play. The big play is nice but they need more physical runs in their offense. When McCoy went out last week the run game got much more physical and the pass protection got considerably better.....opening up the deep ball for some second half scores. can you back up any of those claims?
BADOLBILZ Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 I agree McCoy is not a punishing back. Disagree with everything else you wrote. 7 of the top 8 leading rushers in the NFL are between 220 and 235 pounds. You can disagree all you like......I'm just pointing out the obvious. Scatbacks are an endangered species for a practical reason.
GG Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 7 of the top 8 leading rushers in the NFL are between 220 and 235 pounds. Do you think it has anything to do with Bell & Charles being out for the season?
FireChan Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 Do you think it has anything to do with Bell & Charles being out for the season? 7/10 is still a majority.
GG Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 7/10 is still a majority. And only 3 of 10 are on teams that are in the playoffs now.
klos63 Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 7 of the top 8 leading rushers in the NFL are between 220 and 235 pounds. You can disagree all you like......I'm just pointing out the obvious. Scatbacks are an endangered species for a practical reason. so having McCoy on your team is a bad thing?
BADOLBILZ Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 Do you think it has anything to do with Bell & Charles being out for the season? LeVeon Bell is a big, powerful 220 pound back...........if you don't follow the NFL closely that's fine but this is not a secret. McCoy is actually the only RB in the top 10 who is not known for his punishing style. Like McCoy though, Freeman and Rawls(a junior size Lynch at 215) were both hurt and have missed a bunch of time. In a league where the 7th guy in the box is no longer a matchup advantage for a scatback......the rushing race has become a war of attrition. Big backs are dominating. And when you are pointing out the loss of Charles from the scene keep in mind that high production big backs like Marshawn Lynch and Arian Foster had injury plagued seasons as well. And the argument that teams with big backs featured aren't in line for the playoffs is inaccurate. It's one thing for people to try to bicker with the facts but do a little research before you start using false statements as the basis for your counter argument.
Maury Ballstein Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 I wish McCoy gained 12 pounds so he could dominate Badol style ! Rant !
GG Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 LeVeon Bell is a big, powerful 220 pound back...........if you don't follow the NFL closely that's fine but this is not a secret. McCoy is actually the only RB in the top 10 who is not known for his punishing style. Like McCoy though, Freeman and Rawls(a junior size Lynch at 215) were both hurt and have missed a bunch of time. In a league where the 7th guy in the box is no longer a matchup advantage for a scatback......the rushing race has become a war of attrition. Big backs are dominating. And when you are pointing out the loss of Charles from the scene keep in mind that high production big backs like Marshawn Lynch and Arian Foster had injury plagued seasons as well. And the argument that teams with big backs featured aren't in line for the playoffs is inaccurate. It's one thing for people to try to bicker with the facts but do a little research before you start using false statements as the basis for your counter argument. Obviously with the 24/7 NFL video replay that you're watching is making the argument for you, since you can't provide a simple correlation of how teams that feature a big running back offense are in the playoffs or even have winning records. Chris Ivory is as punishing back as you can get, yet Jets rarely dominate the flow of a game and their wins this year have come courtesy of surprising resilience by Fitzpatrick on 3rd downs. Take away the Brandon Marshall acquisition and the big bruising back theory goes out the window. Bills offense has not been hampered by Shady's size this year. It's been hampered by their inability to convert makeable third downs.
klos63 Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 7 of the top 8 leading rushers in the NFL are between 220 and 235 pounds. You can disagree all you like......I'm just pointing out the obvious. Scatbacks are an endangered species for a practical reason. you mentioned they knock the Sh%$ out of nickle defenses - that's the proof i was asking for
BuffaloFan68 Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 I have a feeling our offense will rack up at least 28 points today but our D might not be able to hold up on their side.
CardinalScotts Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 ranking from 26 to 13 and yes we can improve a lot- it's called building for a reason. Let them build - you cant be pass crazy and win unless you have a Brady - comparing any team to new england and brady you come up short. Compare us to the rest of the league- Teams like Pittsburgh although they have a great qb they also have a two headed monster (between Bell and Williams) and 1300 yds rushing with 2 games to go. Look at New Orleans yep Brees throws it 50+ times a game, they don't play complimentary football and are 30-32 the last 4 years with a 30 million dollar qb
BADOLBILZ Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 Obviously with the 24/7 NFL video replay that you're watching is making the argument for you, since you can't provide a simple correlation of how teams that feature a big running back offense are in the playoffs or even have winning records. Chris Ivory is as punishing back as you can get, yet Jets rarely dominate the flow of a game and their wins this year have come courtesy of surprising resilience by Fitzpatrick on 3rd downs. Take away the Brandon Marshall acquisition and the big bruising back theory goes out the window. Bills offense has not been hampered by Shady's size this year. It's been hampered by their inability to convert makeable third downs. The point of this thread is that the Bills need to improve their offense. The NFL is about passing the football. My point is that the Bills can improve their passing offense with a more physical running game. The two top teams in the NFL...NE and CAR....are lead by the best QB's in the game........and they prefer to complement those QB's with big physical RB's......Blount and Stewart are super-sized #1's. The next level threats......and IMO also the other most consistent organizations in the current NFL....... Seattle, GB and Pittsburgh........all with outstanding QB's........want to feature big backs by design as well. I could go on with more direct points......Giants using Rashad Jennings to plow over Kenyon Rambo for the win.... or broader looks.........like the Chiefs playing better WITHOUT Charles........there is a very, very deep trend of success to the argument I am making. There was a time when teams with star QB's sought out shifty RB's that could be heavily utilized in the passing game.......that's not really how good teams are using the position now. I'm sorry that pointing out the truth offends so many on here.......but teams with dynamic QB's are trying to complement them with powerful running backs because it simply makes sense to use big personnel on offense to counter small personnel on defense. In McCoy.....the Bills provide a back that nickel defenses match up to much better than they do versus big powerful backs. Does that mean I am saying the Bills should just go with a fifth round pick with concussion issues and a guy they plucked off their practice squad.........no. They have a lot of proving to do but the point is that this is an area where the Bills can find improvement by design.
Maury Ballstein Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 The point of this thread is that the Bills need to improve their offense. The NFL is about passing the football. My point is that the Bills can improve their passing offense with a more physical running game. The two top teams in the NFL...NE and CAR....are lead by the best QB's in the game........and they prefer to complement those QB's with big physical RB's......Blount and Stewart are super-sized #1's. The next level threats......and IMO also the other most consistent organizations in the current NFL....... Seattle, GB and Pittsburgh........all with outstanding QB's........want to feature big backs by design as well. I could go on with more direct points......Giants using Rashad Jennings to plow over Kenyon Rambo for the win.... or broader looks.........like the Chiefs playing better WITHOUT Charles........there is a very, very deep trend of success to the argument I am making. There was a time when teams with star QB's sought out shifty RB's that could be heavily utilized in the passing game.......that's not really how good teams are using the position now. I'm sorry that pointing out the truth offends so many on here.......but teams with dynamic QB's are trying to complement them with powerful running backs because it simply makes sense to use big personnel on offense to counter small personnel on defense. In McCoy.....the Bills provide a back that nickel defenses match up to much better than they do versus big powerful backs. Does that mean I am saying the Bills should just go with a fifth round pick with concussion issues and a guy they plucked off their practice squad.........no. They have a lot of proving to do but the point is that this is an area where the Bills can find improvement by design. We should trade McCoy for Antoine Smith. Punish them !!
purple haze Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 @The_Bunk @SalSports Defense was awful, offense slowed down after 5-3 start. You could feel that thing coming apart after the midway point. @SalSports Sal Capaccio Retweeted Beau Totally. First 8 games, scored 31, 45, 23, 33, 31, 31, 23, 24. Way south after that. He was talking about the 2004 Bills w/Drew Bledsoe. Not this season.
GG Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) The point of this thread is that the Bills need to improve their offense. The NFL is about passing the football. My point is that the Bills can improve their passing offense with a more physical running game. Funny how even with these statements you manage to sneak in your crusade that Bills made a bad trade with Eagles. If your theory was 100% correct, Eagles would have run away with the division as soon as they signed DeMarco. Even today, with the Bills featuring two big bodies, the offense was still under stress. And why? Not because Bills lack a big bruising back, but because they have nobody that the defenses respect outside Watkins. I'll go back to the Jets example. They're winning not because of Chris Ivory, but because they lucked into Brandon Marshall. So if you truly want to discuss how to improve the Bills offense, you should highlight the deficiency in a bona fide 2nd WR, and not why the running game is doomed to failure. Edited December 27, 2015 by GG
dave mcbride Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 Funny how even with these statements you manage to sneak in your crusade that Bills made a bad trade with Eagles. If your theory was 100% correct, Eagles would have run away with the division as soon as they signed DeMarco. Even today, with the Bills featuring two big bodies, the offense was still under stress. And why? Not because Bills lack a big bruising back, but because they have nobody that the defenses respect outside Watkins. I'll go back to the Jets example. They're winning not because of Chris Ivory, but because they lucked into Brandon Marshall. So if you truly want to discuss how to improve the Bills offense, you should highlight the deficiency in a bona fide 2nd WR, and not why the running game is doomed to failure. In defensevof badol, he's been harping on the bills not making a trade for marshall all season.
GG Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 In defensevof badol, he's been harping on the bills not making a trade for marshall all season. No argument there. The two teams' roles would be reversed if Bills managed to snag Marshall instead of Harvin. And I wouldn't be arguing with him if that's what he'd contribute to this thread instead of the continued anti-Shady crusade.
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