Rob's House Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Fair enough, but you seem to be making a case for disagreeing with Polian. The OL badly needs upgrade, but not because they're "aging and unathletic", rather because the two guys drafted 2 years ago as RTs don't seem to be panning out and the rookie didn't succeed in punching his ticket as a sure-fire 2016 starter. I thought the initial sarcasm was obvious, but I broke character so I understand the confusion. I think it's fair to say that the viable parts of the line are aging (maybe 2-3 more good years from the older guys) and none of the young guys are worth mentioning at this point other than Glenn.
NoSaint Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 perhaps reshaping the conversation: I think this czars biggest role would be as a consultant that delineates organizational power structure, and best practices and not setting the 4th round of our draft board or picking a RT that would be cost effective in FA
PromoTheRobot Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 I totally believe it. Leonhard played under Ryan or a Ryan disciple, Pettine, for almost all of his career from 2008-14. Two are starters, Incognito and Wood (if Incognito sticks around), and neither is remotely a problem. Who's the third? Urbik? Having a 30-something depth player isn't an issue. Again, the two youngest starters on the line are the weakest links. Both are pro bowl alternates.
Bills Fan of St Augustine Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 While I may not agree with his assessment that the OL is old or aging, he is spot the F*CK on when he describes them as nonathletic! Wood sucks, too small and evidently not very strong either. Both runs we try from the one he gets blown up in a big way. Nothing new when our OL goes up against big physical DL. RG, RT are young and not NFL ready. Urbik is a marginal emergency fill-in. The left side is better but nothing to write home about; although RI was a great signing. As I said last year and the year before, we need to draft athletes at the OL positions (Big, strong, quick) and stop reaching for guys other teams passed on. Koujo, Richardson, Henderson, strike one, two and three. This has been a serious problem for a long long time predating 2009. ESPN: "A decent amount of pressure rests on the young shoulders of Eric Wood and Andy Levitre. The Buffalo Bills need these rookies to perform straight away for an offensive line that’s going through a serious overhaul slathered with skepticism. “We’re going to have five guys probably playing in new positions up front for the Bills,” Wood said ....Wood and Levitre are projected to be the starting guards, positions they weren’t known for in college." Some people on this board nearly cried when Levitre wasn't resigned and the Titans signed him to a six-year, $46.8 million contract that included a $10.5 million signing bonus and $13 million in guaranteed money.The Titans then traded Levitre to the Atlanta Falcons for a 2016 6th round draft pick. Why? Not big enough, not tough enough (6'2" 305 or same size as Wood)... Sign a free-agent OG (Lupati was a miss for us at 6'5" and 330lbs with good agility) is critical as is a RT. Draft a C who either beats out Wood or develops behind him for a season. Yeah, I know I'm living in the past. But the past is the current and likely the future if they don't build from the OL out. TT, Shady, Karlos, etc... look much better behind a premier OL.
BaaadThingsMan Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 All playoff teams! Veteran leadership needed. @mikerodak Mike Rodak Retweeted Vic Carucci Polian notes how BUF has 9 players who are 30+ and how that could lead NFL, but NE, CIN, AZ, DEN have just as many. Yeah, all playoff teams. Ugh
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 perhaps reshaping the conversation: I think this czars biggest role would be as a consultant that delineates organizational power structure, and best practices and not setting the 4th round of our draft board or picking a RT that would be cost effective in FA This is actually not a bad notion. Having a consultant in to give a fresh pair of eyes to the organizational structure and to talk to people about what does or does not work in their view, then presenting their findings privately and directly to the Pegulas would be a very reasonable idea. OBD has been called "dysfunction junction" by some reporters, so let's ID the dysfunction and make it go away. Polian is NOT the man to consult for this purpose.
boyst Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 I don't get the aging OL part. Glenn is good. Wood isn't old. Incognito isn't going but still producing well. The other 5 guys rotating right side are young
CardinalScotts Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) I read the article. Wow, Polian did not hold back. More things that will cause more division. Interesting points about the o-line (aging and not athletic), a roster with too many 30+ year old players, and Taylor not being the long-tern answer. Not sure what to make of this mess, but things seem to be spinning out of control. 10th youngest team in nfl our 30 or over guys are a kicker, a long snapper, a back up o-lineman, .....leodis, graham, lawson and a guy just voted to probowl (alternate) in incognito yes someone is to old Bill it's a 73 year old who has no idea about this roster Edited December 24, 2015 by CardinalScotts
reddogblitz Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Polian is NOT the man to consult for this purpose. Who is?
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 @viccarucci Bill Polian willing to lend a hand to help #Bills end 16-year playoff drought: http://bit.ly/1OjezEA "Fix the offensive line, which he calls “aging and unathletic.” Add a receiver to complement Sammy Watkins. Get a true backup to quarterback Tyrod Taylor and draft a QB of the future." I think Bill has been reading my mind, although I don't think the whole line is bad we just really need a RT. Also switching Back to Schwartz's Defense would be a lot smarter than redoing the whole thing (again) into a 34, but that wont happen with rexy here. He left us for Carolina, then went to Indy to work for a madman. Don't know if we want his "help??" left? he was "let" go for being mean to Ralph's daughter. Which makes sense considering his days in Indy he could give two ***** about defense. He made Peyton carry the team. We had a great defense here, although I wish we had Wade during the superbowl yrs, we would have won em all !!
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Which makes sense considering his days in Indy he could give two ***** about defense. He made Peyton carry the team. looks like he addressed it here, from the article: “You need veterans to make that defense work,” Polian said. “First of all, the players thrived in another system – in a simple, straight forward, very easy to understand, very easy to communicate system where there was constant repetition of the same thing, over and over again, taught in a very straight-forward way. And the techniques were geared toward what the players could do, what their skill sets were, and the plans were constructed around the players and what they could do. “Rex’s defense is just the opposite. It is not straight forward. It’s exceedingly complex. There is no carry over learning from one week to the next. There’s exceedingly complex language. There are exceedingly complex checks that have to be made at the line of scrimmage. There is a guy designated to make those checks. It was” linebacker “Ray Lewis in Baltimore and it was” safety “Jimmy Leonhard with the Jets, who literally could not put one foot in front of the other at the end of his career. “I remember asking one of the Jets’ coaches during the offseason, ‘How in God’s name can you put Jimmy Leonhard on the field?’ He said, ‘No one else can translate the defense, no one else can get everybody lined up.’” The bold is why our defense failed.
K D Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Sounds like he's already "consulting" for free. 2 hour long phone calls with Pegs. I know they want him on the staff but it sounds like they would have to pay him big bucks to leave ESPN but they don't want to pay a consultant, they want someone to head football operations. And Polian's family want him to stay retired. I don't see how this is going to happen unless Polian really wants back in and goes against his family's wishes. Otherwise they still need someone that's all in to take over things day to day
Overseas Bills Fan Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 @viccarucci Bill Polian willing to lend a hand to help #Bills end 16-year playoff drought: http://bit.ly/1OjezEA The man whose moves got the Bills to four straight Super Bowls is always welcome to this die hard fan!
Blokestradamus Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 All I want for Christmas is to never hear the phrase 'football czar' ever again. Just look at the football education Doug Whaley got in Pittsburgh. If he's not "football guy" enough for you, ownership deserve this to fall apart.
BUNCH OF MULARKEY Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 What an insensitive jerk that Polian is. Nobody called him and Marv out for being "aging and unathletic"
machine gun kelly Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 The man whose moves got the Bills to four straight Super Bowls is always welcome to this die hard fan! Agreed. This notion the game has past him by is absurd. He did what was stated above in Buffalo, turned an expansion team into a playoff championship contender, and took the Colts into a 10+ team every year he was there. His comments are spot on. We are complaining about the defense, and if you read his thoughts, he basically is stating Schwartz was smart enough to understand the talent he had and coached to it, vs. and far too complicated system that doesn't match the players. His thoughts about QB are on as well. TT with more talent around him will be ok, but not a franchise guy. The acquisitions of McCoy and Clay are at a high price, but I see Whaley needed to get more talent on offense. If nothing else, I'm glad this article came out so the fan base can read it, and digest it. Lastly, if he is talking to Pegula this much, he will have influence over the future of the team. This is not when Marv was brought back as a GM. He was in over his head. One last point. I hope reporters ask Whaley, and Rex to respond to the article and see what they say. They'll have to choose their words carefully given his influence over Pegula.
The Jokeman Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 I was glad to see Polian direct the Pegula's away from Hackenberg as admit part of me worried that we'd try to add him because of the Pegula's ties to PSU.
nucci Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Agreed. This notion the game has past him by is absurd. He did what was stated above in Buffalo, turned an expansion team into a playoff championship contender, and took the Colts into a 10+ team every year he was there. His comments are spot on. We are complaining about the defense, and if you read his thoughts, he basically is stating Schwartz was smart enough to understand the talent he had and coached to it, vs. and far too complicated system that doesn't match the players. His thoughts about QB are on as well. TT with more talent around him will be ok, but not a franchise guy. The acquisitions of McCoy and Clay are at a high price, but I see Whaley needed to get more talent on offense. If nothing else, I'm glad this article came out so the fan base can read it, and digest it. Lastly, if he is talking to Pegula this much, he will have influence over the future of the team. This is not when Marv was brought back as a GM. He was in over his head. One last point. I hope reporters ask Whaley, and Rex to respond to the article and see what they say. They'll have to choose their words carefully given his influence over Pegula. or they say nothing at all
Nanker Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Pretty simple plan. Don't need to pay him now. He just gave us the blueprint for free. +1. But interesting he made no mention of the Defense... No thanks. Not even 1% interested. Time to move in a new direction. We need to stop constantly turning to the past. +1 I far prefer other football minds that are available out there. I'd give Dan Reeves a call, and Ron Wolf. I'd tell Charlie Casserly if he wants a consultants job with The Bills to take down that SBXXVI game ball that he has on his his shelf seen prominently displayed in the background of his office. The Washington team gave that to him for his work as GM in assembling that team. The only part of his critique offered in the piece that I question is the "aging and unathletic" line. The OL actually moves pretty well and most of the guys are relatively young with the notable exception of Incognitio. The right side of the line is in need of upgrades obviously. My thought exactly. Incognito was our best OLineman this year, hands down. It makes me think that Polian's views of The Bills are as jaundiced looking as the color of his teeth. He doesn't know the personnel or he wouldn't have said anything like that about the OLine. I'm not saying they're good, but they're not old. Maybe he was thinking that their best player is old and a succession plan needs to be put in place because the rest have been playing like a bunch of scrubs. But that's not what he said. From the team's website: C - Eric Wood 29 years old, 7 years experience G - Ryan Groy 25, 2 G - Richie Incognito 32, 9 G - John Miller 22, R G - Kraig Urbik 30, 7 T - Cordy Glenn 26, 4 T - Cyrus Kouandjio 22, 2 T - Jordan Mills 25, 3 T - Tyson Chandler 24, R C - Ronald Patrick 24, 1 G - Cyril Richardson 24, 2
The Jokeman Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 +1. But interesting he made no mention of the Defense... +1 I far prefer other football minds that are available out there. I'd give Dan Reeves a call, and Ron Wolf. I'd tell Charlie Casserly if he wants a consultants job with The Bills to take down that SBXXVI game ball that he has on his his shelf seen prominently displayed in the background of his office. The Washington team gave that to him for his work as GM in assembling that team. My thought exactly. Incognito was our best OLineman this year, hands down. It makes me think that Polian's views of The Bills are as jaundiced looking as the color of his teeth. He doesn't know the personnel or he wouldn't have said anything like that about the OLine. I'm not saying they're good, but they're not old. Maybe he was thinking that their best player is old and a succession plan needs to be put in place because the rest have been playing like a bunch of scrubs. But that's not what he said. From the team's website: C - Eric Wood 29 years old, 7 years experience G - Ryan Groy 25, 2 G - Richie Incognito 32, 9 G - John Miller 22, R G - Kraig Urbik 30, 7 T - Cordy Glenn 26, 4 T - Cyrus Kouandjio 22, 2 T - Jordan Mills 25, 3 T - Tyson Chandler 24, R C - Ronald Patrick 24, 1 G - Cyril Richardson 24, 2 I'd image when he mention age he referencing Urbik and the un-athletic might be Henderson and Kujo. Yet let's not forget that Whaley did try and add Bulaga to this team last offseason so not sure that our current GM is as dumb as some here make him out to be. I have little complaints to the job he's done as GM and hope he's brought back.
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