Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 we have 1 Pro Bowler for talent. i guess worse would be ZERO. Oh, Come On Now. Pro bowl voting is 1/3 coaches, 1/3 players, and 1/3 FANS. It is only marginally connected to player talent and heavily connected to media hype and winning. Yes, winning teams typically have the most players selected. That is partly because winning takes talent, but largely because winning causes players and coaches on other teams to take notice, and builds hype among fans. How many of you voted for any Bills players to the ProBowl this year? I think I hear mostly crickets. Given Buffalo's small market, losing record, and rarely televised games, it's actually impressive that Taylor, Wood, Incognito, and Dareus made it as alternates, and in the case of Dareus and McCoy, a certain number of votes this year were probably "name recognition" from previous years. I'm sure "Number of Pro Bowl Selection" formed a huge part of Polian's talent evaluation during his years as a football executive <--------SARCASM It makes a good sound bite, that's all.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 I predict Polian is our next GMThe kid will be, and we will be 2-14 and drafting #1 in 2018.
YoloinOhio Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 (edited) Oh, Come On Now. Pro bowl voting is 1/3 coaches, 1/3 players, and 1/3 FANS. It is only marginally connected to player talent and heavily connected to media hype and winning. Yes, winning teams typically have the most players selected. That is partly because winning takes talent, but largely because winning causes players and coaches on other teams to take notice, and builds hype among fans. How many of you voted for any Bills players to the ProBowl this year? I think I hear mostly crickets. Given Buffalo's small market, losing record, and rarely televised games, it's actually impressive that Taylor, Wood, Incognito, and Dareus made it as alternates, and in the case of Dareus and McCoy, a certain number of votes this year were probably "name recognition" from previous years. I'm sure "Number of Pro Bowl Selection" formed a huge part of Polian's talent evaluation during his years as a football executive <--------SARCASM It makes a good sound bite, that's all. i actually find it borderline insulting that Polian used Pro Bowl selections in his "evaluation" as an indicator of team talent. Who does he think is reading this article? People who have no idea what the Pro Bowl really is? Or Bills fans? He should know the latter is pretty well informed. Edited December 25, 2015 by YoloinOhio
NoSaint Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 Exactly. Consultant = No Skin in the Game Pegula is a fool if he goes for this. The more I think about it, the more I think the right move is an organizational consultant, someone independent of the Bills "lifers", to come in and talk to people and scrutinize the organization and advise on organizational structure for a healthy outcome. Polian is not that guy. It's possible he could be objective but there are a lot of red flags. I would certainly try to talk myself into best case scenarios if it happens, but would be nervous at best about the outcome.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 I don't think we are top ten on paper. We don't have near the talent of teams like Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Seattle, etc. It's a good question. Is the D super-talented and underperformed this year, or did they over-perform due to a Perfect Storm of coaching and scheme last year? We certainly don't have the super-talented OL, but we do have a talented backfield and WRs
Boolay Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 It's a good question. Is the D super-talented and underperformed this year, or did they over-perform due to a Perfect Storm of coaching and scheme last year? We certainly don't have the super-talented OL, but we do have a talented backfield and WRs We have 2 talented running backs that can't stay on the field and 1 talented WR who has been prone to injuries his entire career.
YoloinOhio Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 (edited) There have been 3 GMs from the "Polian Tree" in the NFL. Chris Polian, who took over the Colts in 2008, had 4 terrible drafts, was ultra dependent on the QB due to lack of talent, went 2-14 when he got hurt, and got fired. Hasn't has a sniff at another GM job since. Dave Caldwell - took over Jacksonville in 2013 after a year or 2 as director of player personnel in Atlanta. Has made slight improvements from a very poor roster, appears to be on the rise, but still no playoffs in his 3rd year in a poor division. Tom Telesco - took over the Chargers in 2013. Hired one of the absolute worst head coaches In the league, backed into the playoffs his first year after starting 3-8 with a borderline HOF QB and HOF TE. Sharp decline in next 2 years including 2-9 vs afc west in last 2 years and 0-5 this year with the QB not missing a game. Used 3 picks on RB in the 1st rd of the 2015 draft who severely underperformed backs picked much later. Terrible FA signings, traded up for Manti Teo, the list goes on. These are the guys who practice the "Polian Way." Leave the scouting department alone and only advise on football ops/structure - ok. Edited December 25, 2015 by YoloinOhio
Boolay Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 There have been 3 GMs from the "Polian Tree" in the NFL. Chris Polian, who took over the Colts in 2008, had 4 terrible drafts, was ultra dependent on the QB due to lack of talent, went 2-14 when he got hurt, and got fired. Hasn't has a sniff at another GM job since. Dave Caldwell - took over Jacksonville in 2013 after a year or 2 as director of player personnel in Atlanta. Has made slight improvements from a very poor roster, appears to be on the rise, but still no playoffs in his 3rd year in a poor division. Tom Telesco - took over the Chargers in 2013. Hired one of the absolute worst head coaches In the league, backed into the playoffs his first year after starting 3-8 with a borderline HOF QB and HOF TE. Sharp decline in next 2 years including 2-9 vs afc west in last 2 years and 0-5 this year with the QB not missing a game. Used 3 picks on RB in the 1st rd of the 2015 draft who severely underperformed backs picked much later. Terrible FA signings, traded up for Manti Teo, the list goes on. These are the guys who practice the "Polian Way." Leave the scouting department alone and only advise on football ops/structure - ok. So your point is that since these guys who worked for the Hall Of Fame GM who successfully built playoff teams at every stop are not successful when they leave the nest so to speak then everything that Hall Of Fame GM did at every stop is null and void? Your rationale is like saying Apple isn't a good company cause some of their management left and started unsuccessful startups.
YoloinOhio Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 (edited) So your point is that since these guys who worked for the Hall Of Fame GM who successfully built playoff teams at every stop are not successful when they leave the nest so to speak then everything that Hall Of Fame GM did at every stop is null and void? Your rationale is like saying Apple isn't a good company cause some of their management left and started unsuccessful startups. did I say everything polian did at every stop is null and void? Lol - nice straw man. I've repeatedly said he deserves to be in the HOF for his work. These three guys absolutely follow his pro and college scouting and team building model - in recent years it doesn't look great. You may have missed the part where I would welcome his advice on football ops and structure. I believe he is much more aware and wise on that at this point than our current leaders. Edited December 25, 2015 by YoloinOhio
papazoid Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 I admit...I drank the kool-aid this year......actually picked 10-6 in a pool. this team SUCKS ....you are what your record says you are .429 winning % and out of the playoffs. I guess the Whaley apologists only want to point out his hits. his hits do not outweigh his misses......he is mediocre.
Boolay Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 did I say everything polian did at every stop is null and void? Lol - nice straw man. I've repeatedly said he deserves to be in the HOF for his work. These three guys absolutely follow his pro and college scouting and team building model - in recent years it doesn't look great. You may have missed the part where I would welcome his advice on football ops and structure. I believe he is much more aware and wise on that at this point than our current leaders. Well played completely ignoring my Apple analogy which if you agree to completely blows your argument out of the water. Merry Christmas
YoloinOhio Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 (edited) Well played completely ignoring my Apple analogy which if you agree to completely blows your argument out of the water. Merry Christmas no I don't agree with the analogy, and it's not an argument. It's simply an opinion that his scouting and team building model isn't easily replicated from years ago or currently successful. Ps Merry Christmas Edit - I already said in this thread earlier but one area of scouting that I WOULD want his input is drafting a QB. 100%. Edited December 25, 2015 by YoloinOhio
papazoid Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 if he comes, Polian will be some kind of Executive VP of football operations......defacto on the same level as Russ Brandon (business side). Polian will be responsible for hiring a GM......Polian will NOT be the GM.
YoloinOhio Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 if he comes, Polian will be some kind of Executive VP of football operations......defacto on the same level as Russ Brandon (business side). Polian will be responsible for hiring a GM......Polian will NOT be the GM. that would actually be a great role for him and I think it would really help the Bills. But, I still doubt he wants a real job with the organization.
NoSaint Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 There have been 3 GMs from the "Polian Tree" in the NFL. Chris Polian, who took over the Colts in 2008, had 4 terrible drafts, was ultra dependent on the QB due to lack of talent, went 2-14 when he got hurt, and got fired. Hasn't has a sniff at another GM job since. Dave Caldwell - took over Jacksonville in 2013 after a year or 2 as director of player personnel in Atlanta. Has made slight improvements from a very poor roster, appears to be on the rise, but still no playoffs in his 3rd year in a poor division. Tom Telesco - took over the Chargers in 2013. Hired one of the absolute worst head coaches In the league, backed into the playoffs his first year after starting 3-8 with a borderline HOF QB and HOF TE. Sharp decline in next 2 years including 2-9 vs afc west in last 2 years and 0-5 this year with the QB not missing a game. Used 3 picks on RB in the 1st rd of the 2015 draft who severely underperformed backs picked much later. Terrible FA signings, traded up for Manti Teo, the list goes on. These are the guys who practice the "Polian Way." Leave the scouting department alone and only advise on football ops/structure - ok. Beyond just Chris - the John Carroll connections could be heavy in his thoughts (good or bad)
papazoid Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 that would actually be a great role for him and I think it would really help the Bills. But, I still doubt he wants a real job with the organization. thought i read somewhere he wants a role/title where he can keep his day job (at ESPN). not sure if that is wise from the Bills viewpoint.
3rdand12 Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 Reasons for concern- Polian has little to lose even if he flops Polian has potential interests outside of buffalo success. If his goal is his son taking the job, and not an objective maximization of the bills organizational talent -- things like the factions/infighting/weird power lines could get worse not better. it definitely could get worse. Some folks should consider that before firing up the bandwagon. I have to place trust in Pegulas in this matter. First year has been a crash course for them. Lets see how they recover .
Rico Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 if he comes, Polian will be some kind of Executive VP of football operations......defacto on the same level as Russ Brandon (business side). Polian will be responsible for hiring a GM......Polian will NOT be the GM. The biggest positive IMO with bringing Polian in is that it pretty much guarantees that Brandon will have absolutely nothing to do with the football side of the house.
26CornerBlitz Posted December 25, 2015 Author Posted December 25, 2015 if he comes, Polian will be some kind of Executive VP of football operations......defacto on the same level as Russ Brandon (business side). Polian will be responsible for hiring a GM......Polian will NOT be the GM. He's not coming and whatever in-depth analysis he offers as a consultant had better be more accurate than his off-base assessment of the OL and supposedly older roster. Stay at ESPN as a talking head!
NoSaint Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 The biggest positive IMO with bringing Polian in is that it pretty much guarantees that Brandon will have absolutely nothing to do with the football side of the house. Unless he likes Brandon just like every other decision maker seems to - then we could keep up the fun of "i saw Brandon speak to football people! What was he pushing on them?!?"
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