Mario Williams: "Bills' personnel doesn't fit Scheme"

[3rdand12]

I agree. So many posters say flatly that Rex simply can't be fired. Others (maybe the same) say just as flatly that Mario is as good as gone. Neither has to be true, and in fact the best course is the reverse. It would mean not that the franchise is "starting over" but acknowledging its mistake and moving on. If Ryan is allowed more time to tear apart the defense, then we really will have to start over with what mess he leaves behind. Yet another coach bringing in yet another scheme.

 

It's not too late to recover last year's defensive prowess and build on the progress the offense made this year.

I am fine with a reset. Not a rebuild though.. Mario is not playing a role as a leader as far as we know anyways.

 

Hoping we can trade him. After this seasons effort from him, he needs to go. period.

 

"All In" or out ya go IMO.

 

and he has shown himself the door.

 

play him , rush the passer all day @Cowboys and showcase the SOB!

I am still in shock that this whole thing turned out this way........

 

We went from Not allowing Mario to leave town till we got him to sign a huge contract to him playing like a little girl so the bills would force him out......all the while having one of the best D lines in the league JUST LAST YEAR

 

I still blame Rex for this

Its reasonable to do so. Don't hate him , but he does own this season.

 

and no one can even pretend it was what we hoped for.

Edited December 24, 2015 by 3rdand12

[GG]

 

 

 

I think that's where I don't totally agree with GG's angle.

 

When 9 of 11 positions are regularly diminished by a scheme you are likely to get some players speaking out...........and there just might be a couple who don't think the scheme was so bad.

 

The profile of Manny Lawson and Corey Graham has risen considerably due to Rex........if Schwartz is back I bet Manny would have been gone and Graham would have been watching from the sidelines a lot like he was in 2014.

 

Anything related to a hypothetical Schwartz defense with the 2015 cast is pure conjecture. My interpolation is based on Schwartz's history that never had perpetually top ranked defensive units and was always the beneficiary of good play from league's top talents. So while the core came back this year, we don't know how the unit would have performed if he had the same injuries that hit Rex's defense. Recall what happened to his vaunted unit when he lost just one player.

 

I think that Schwartz caught the perfect lightning strike and given his history, I skeptical that the unit would have been top 5 again. It certainly would have been better than Rex's unit this year and they likely would have made the playoffs this year. Good. But what about next year or year after that?

 

Said another way, would Pegula prefer a defensive system that needs one smart player to decipher the complex playcalls and settings vs a defensive system that requires a $80 million annual commitment to the DL? If we buy into the Jim Leonhard thread, all Rex was missing was an aging player who could barely walk but could relay the signals to the morons on the field.

[BuffaloFan68]

Step 1) Replace Rex

Step 2) rework Mario's contract

Step 3) Bring Schwarz back & keep Roman & the Offensive staff.

Step 4) Make the playoffs.

[Flip Johnson]

This guy has played 140+ games, he'll be in his 11th season next year, and he's probably known all season that he isn't coming back at 20M. Even if he was playing great, Rex/Whaley could find a 3-4 OLB who could rush the passer for less than half that money.

 

It is in his financial interest to convince as many people as possible that his dramatic statistical decline is entirely about scheme and has nothing to do with the wear and tear on his body. He still wants to sign a lucrative multi-year deal.

 

Again, not defending Rex's scheme per se, just saying the division in the locker room seems to be coming from someone with an obvious agenda.

 

When you throw in his track record of dubious financial decisions (remember the diamond ring lawsuit?) and remember that he's never been seen as a leader on this team this starts to seem obvious.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Flip Johnson

[NoSaint]

 

Anything related to a hypothetical Schwartz defense with the 2015 cast is pure conjecture. My interpolation is based on Schwartz's history that never had perpetually top ranked defensive units and was always the beneficiary of good play from league's top talents. So while the core came back this year, we don't know how the unit would have performed if he had the same injuries that hit Rex's defense. Recall what happened to his vaunted unit when he lost just one player.

 

I think that Schwartz caught the perfect lightning strike and given his history, I skeptical that the unit would have been top 5 again. It certainly would have been better than Rex's unit this year and they likely would have made the playoffs this year. Good. But what about next year or year after that?

 

Said another way, would Pegula prefer a defensive system that needs one smart player to decipher the complex playcalls and settings vs a defensive system that requires a $80 million annual commitment to the DL? If we buy into the Jim Leonhard thread, all Rex was missing was an aging player who could barely walk but could relay the signals to the morons on the field.

Schwartz with a healthy dareus Hughes and Mario would've been fine. He needs a few very specific things and they are incredibly expensive to maintain but we have them. And we paid a whole lot to keep them but haven't maximized their value since the cost shot up

[FireChan]

 

Anything related to a hypothetical Schwartz defense with the 2015 cast is pure conjecture. My interpolation is based on Schwartz's history that never had perpetually top ranked defensive units and was always the beneficiary of good play from league's top talents. So while the core came back this year, we don't know how the unit would have performed if he had the same injuries that hit Rex's defense. Recall what happened to his vaunted unit when he lost just one player.

 

I think that Schwartz caught the perfect lightning strike and given his history, I skeptical that the unit would have been top 5 again. It certainly would have been better than Rex's unit this year and they likely would have made the playoffs this year. Good. But what about next year or year after that?

 

Said another way, would Pegula prefer a defensive system that needs one smart player to decipher the complex playcalls and settings vs a defensive system that requires a $80 million annual commitment to the DL? If we buy into the Jim Leonhard thread, all Rex was missing was an aging player who could barely walk but could relay the signals to the morons on the field.

You keep saying this, but Schwartz' system was predicated on the front four and he lost arguably the most talented player on that front four. Not sure the loss of Bradham or AW would've hurt him as bad as that. Also, he had lost McK for the season at that point, no?

 

And what "happened" to his vaunted D when Dareus went out was 204 passing yards, with a 50% completion rating and 3.9 YPC allowed. Not exactly the worst defensive performance of all time.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Step 1) Replace Rex

Step 2) rework Mario's contract

Step 3) Bring Schwarz back & keep Roman & the Offensive staff.

Step 4) Make the playoffs.

 

This not complicated enough

[3rdand12]

This guy has played 140+ games, he'll be in his 11th season next year, and he's probably known all season that he isn't coming back at 20M. Even if he was playing great, Rex/Whaley could find a 3-4 OLB who could rush the passer for less than half that money.

 

It is in his financial interest to convince as many people as possible that his dramatic statistical decline is entirely about scheme and has nothing to do with the wear and tear on his body. He still wants to sign a lucrative multi-year deal.

 

Again, not defending Rex's scheme per se, just saying the division in the locker room seems to be coming from someone with an obvious agenda.

 

When you throw in his track record of dubious financial decisions (remember the diamond ring lawsuit?) and remember that he's never been seen as a leader on this team this starts to seem obvious.

good post.

[GG]

You keep saying this, but Schwartz' system was predicated on the front four and he lost arguably the most talented player on that front four. Not sure the loss of Bradham or AW would've hurt him as bad as that. Also, he had lost McK for the season at that point, no?

 

And what "happened" to his vaunted D when Dareus went out was 204 passing yards, with a 50% completion rating and 3.9 YPC allowed. Not exactly the worst defensive performance of all time.

 

I was referring to losing Dareus in the Oakland game and how badly the defense played in his absence. Oakland didn't need to pass the ball beacuse they weren't being stopped on the ground.

 

How well do you think his unit would have played without Kyle for 10 games and no Wynn to spell the other guys?

 

Just like Rex's defense this year that bucked the trend of his top ranked units, you're assuming that Schwartz would have kept his unit at a top level when he's done that only once in his career.

[8-8 Forever?]

Is this guy ever going to stop blabbing about this to the media... Seriously... We get it.

yes we get it. and its the players that will change long b4 the coaches do.. this ship sailed a year ago when Marrone bailed and Rex was hired. new sheriff in town, new game plan.. gotta change out the parts now... this is the way it goes all across the NFL... Mario just learned what happens when coaching staffs get blown up

[FireChan]

 

I was referring to losing Dareus in the Oakland game and how badly the defense played in his absence. Oakland didn't need to pass the ball beacuse they weren't being stopped on the ground.

 

How well do you think his unit would have played without Kyle for 10 games and no Wynn to spell the other guys?

 

Just like Rex's defense this year that bucked the trend of his top ranked units, you're assuming that Schwartz would have kept his unit at a top level when he's done that only once in his career.

I realize that, but we didn't lose Dareus this year so it's kinda weird to assume the loss of Bradham or AW would've hurt Schwartz's scheme as much as Dareus' loss last year.

 

They averaged 3.9 YPC on the ground that game. Our season average this year is 4.2 YPC allowed. Our season average in 2014 was 4.1 YPC allowed. Our 2014 passing yards allowed was 205 YPG. So, we lost Dareus and still hit our averages. Unlike the Rex defense this year with his injuries.

 

I think it's safe to assume the loss of Kyle wouldn't have been felt nearly as much as Dareus. Unless you think Kyle is more important to Schwartz's scheme than Dareus. I hope that's not the case, because that's dumb.

 

Plus, our defense was weak before the injuries occurred this year. Whereas a healthy Schwartz defense was doing fine.

Edited December 24, 2015 by FireChan

[GG]

I realize that, but we didn't lose Dareus this year so it's kinda weird to assume the loss of Bradham or AW would've hurt Schwartz's scheme as much as Dareus' loss last year.

 

They averaged 3.9 YPC on the ground that game. Our season average this year is 4.2 YPC allowed. Our season average in 2014 was 4.1 YPC allowed. Our 2014 passing yards allowed was 205 YPG. So, we lost Dareus and still hit our averages. Unlike the Rex defense this year with his injuries.

 

I think it's safe to assume the loss of Kyle wouldn't have been felt nearly as much as Dareus. Unless you think Kyle is more important to Schwartz's scheme than Dareus. I hope that's not the case, because that's dumb.

 

Plus, our defense was weak before the injuries occurred this year. Whereas a healthy Schwartz defense was doing fine.

 

Dareus is clearly more important, but so was Kyle and Bryant/Charles are not as good as Kyle. So for a defense that relies on its front four being among the best in the league, when you lose one of the four it will have a disproportionate effect on the rest of the defense.

 

Again, we don't know how much better the defense would have been under Schwartz. But his track record of maintaining top units year after year aren't that good.

 

So if the argument is that his defense this year would have been better than Rex's defense this year, then there's little doubt. But based on Schwartz's track record, there's also a good chance the D would have taken a step back this year, and probably implode next year.

 

And it goes back to the main question, is Schwartz' scheme that relies on all four allstars on the DL sustainable?

Schwartz with a healthy dareus Hughes and Mario would've been fine. He needs a few very specific things and they are incredibly expensive to maintain but we have them. And we paid a whole lot to keep them but haven't maximized their value since the cost shot up

 

Why did the D go down the drain in Tenn & Detroit when he lost only a handful of players?

[boyst]

@TyDunne

More from Eric Wood on Mario Williams' comments: "You know, it’s disappointing. Everybody has to buy in or else we don’t have a shot."

i am a total team guy and hate this type of thing.

 

The truth is everyone doesn't have to truly buy in they just have to contribute.

 

Eric Wood has no need to comment on this and this is where being part of a team he needs to realize he just needs to hush.

[NoSaint]

 

Dareus is clearly more important, but so was Kyle and Bryant/Charles are not as good as Kyle. So for a defense that relies on its front four being among the best in the league, when you lose one of the four it will have a disproportionate effect on the rest of the defense.

 

Again, we don't know how much better the defense would have been under Schwartz. But his track record of maintaining top units year after year aren't that good.

 

So if the argument is that his defense this year would have been better than Rex's defense this year, then there's little doubt. But based on Schwartz's track record, there's also a good chance the D would have taken a step back this year, and probably implode next year.

 

And it goes back to the main question, is Schwartz' scheme that relies on all four allstars on the DL sustainable?

 

 

Why did the D go down the drain in Tenn & Detroit when he lost only a handful of players?

Those handful of players were guys like haynesworth(dareus). If he has two pass rushers outside and an all time great talent inside his scheme is excellent.

[FireChan]

 

Dareus is clearly more important, but so was Kyle and Bryant/Charles are not as good as Kyle. So for a defense that relies on its front four being among the best in the league, when you lose one of the four it will have a disproportionate effect on the rest of the defense.

 

Again, we don't know how much better the defense would have been under Schwartz. But his track record of maintaining top units year after year aren't that good.

 

So if the argument is that his defense this year would have been better than Rex's defense this year, then there's little doubt. But based on Schwartz's track record, there's also a good chance the D would have taken a step back this year, and probably implode next year.

 

And it goes back to the main question, is Schwartz' scheme that relies on all four allstars on the DL sustainable?

 

Why did the D go down the drain in Tenn & Detroit when he lost only a handful of players?

When you have 4 All-Stars on the DL and they're all under contract, yeah. Sustainable enough to make a playoff/SB run for 2-3 years.

 

Yes, the argument is that the Schwartz D would've been much better this season. And perhaps it would've taken a step back or so with the loss of Kyle and the other guys. But I'd have bet it'd still be top 10, and top 10 in sacks, etc etc. Especially with the addition of Darby.

 

Speaking of that, how sad is it that our defense sucks with arguably two top ten CB's on it?

Schwartz with a healthy dareus Hughes and Mario would've been fine. He needs a few very specific things and theny are incredibly expensive to maintain but we have them. Ad we paid a whole lot to keep them but haven't maximized their value since the cost shot up

Yep. GG is saying it's not sustainable, but if Mario was having another career year, do we really think he wouldn't be more likely to restructure and stay? Meanwhile, we had Hughes and Dareus locked up, Kyle on a two year deal, and 2 more years of Mario. 2 years+ of sustainability is pretty good.

[GG]

When you have 4 All-Stars on the DL and they're all under contract, yeah. Sustainable enough to make a playoff/SB run for 2-3 years.

 

Yes, the argument is that the Schwartz D would've been much better this season. And perhaps it would've taken a step back or so with the loss of Kyle and the other guys. But I'd have bet it'd still be top 10, and top 10 in sacks, etc etc. Especially with the addition of Darby.

 

Speaking of that, how sad is it that our defense sucks with arguably two top ten CB's on it?

Yep. GG is saying it's not sustainable, but if Mario was having another career year, do we really think he wouldn't be more likely to restructure and stay? Meanwhile, we had Hughes and Dareus locked up, Kyle on a two year deal, and 2 more years of Mario. 2 years+ of sustainability is pretty good.

 

No, this would have been the last year with those four, because there's no way that you keep both Mario & Kyle with their current contracts in 2016, and still pay the guys you need to keep at other positions. That's why Schwartz's defenses flash & fizzle so quickly.

[NoSaint]

 

No, this would have been the last year with those four, because there's no way that you keep both Mario & Kyle with their current contracts in 2016, and still pay the guys you need to keep at other positions. That's why Schwartz's defenses flash & fizzle so quickly.

You likely keep him this year but are looking at needing to spend a top 60 pick on DE to keep it up longer term.

[FireChan]

 

No, this would have been the last year with those four, because there's no way that you keep both Mario & Kyle with their current contracts in 2016, and still pay the guys you need to keep at other positions. That's why Schwartz's defenses flash & fizzle so quickly.

Restructure Mario and you'd be fine. Cut McK. Draft another LB and we'd be cooking again.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

Restructure Mario and you'd be fine. Cut McK. Draft another LB and we'd be cooking again.

 

In order to restructure you need to have the player cooperate with the restructure. Mario has already been on record that he would in no way restructure his contract.

 

and btw IMO your ways to address this team would lead them to 5-11 next year.

[FireChan]

 

In order to restructure you need to have the player cooperate with the restructure. Mario has already been on record that he would in no way restructure his contract.

 

and btw IMO your ways to address this team would lead them to 5-11 next year.

And probably 9-7 or higher this year. Oh no!