The guy in P. Brown's comments = one of the "changes"?

[dave mcbride]

I think the whole thing is bizarre. I think that best and worst part about Rex Ryan as a coach is that he puts his faith in his players. I think in many ways that faith blew up in his face this year because a couple of bad seeds on the defense thought they knew better than him. I think those players are selfish, petulant and a detriment to our team's success. And I think Rex's reputation for having his guy's back has bitten him in the ass before, and it's happening again here. I think these are dark marks against Rex's coaching acumen, but that he has more positive to offer than negative and that given his own guys and an offseason to build a defense with guys who are bought in we'll be better off than if we blew the whole !@#$ing thing up and rolled the dice with the fourth HC since 2012.

 

How's that?

I think that's a good take, but I also think that when a guy like Brown who plays hard and wants to lead completely craters from being a good, productive player last year to a lost player this year and then raises issues about plays getting in, he's probably worth listening to. It's not just the defense either - they've had problems getting plays in on offense, and that was a problem for Roman (who I like) in SF too.

 

One thought I have: Rex's system used to work great in a slower paced game, but now that multiple teams (inspired by Chip Kelly and the Pats) have shifted to a much more rapid no-huddle pace for much of the game, his approach is outmoded. So it's not just the players or the possibility that Rex is having a bad year; it's that the offensive pace has quickened across the league, which is poison for a defense that relies so heavily on play-to-play substitution of both players and scheme. I think this week you're going to see the defense do reasonably well because they're facing an inexperienced qb on a ground and pound team. But it won't mean much because the Cowboys are presumably gunning to land a top 3 pick at this point.

Edited December 23, 2015 by dave mcbride

[The Big Cat]

I think that's a good take, but I also think that when a guy like Brown who plays hard and wants to lead completely craters from being a good, productive player last year to a lost player this year and then raises issues about plays getting in, he's probably worth listening to. It's not just the defense either - they've had problems getting plays in on offense, and that was a problem for Roman (who I like) in SF too.

 

One thought I have: Rex's system used to work great in a slower paced game, but now that multiple teams (inspired by Chip Kelly and the Pats) have shifted to a much more rapid no-huddle pace for much of the game, his approach is outmoded. So it's not just the players or the possibility that Rex is having a bad year; it's that the offensive pace has quickened across the league, which is poison for a defense that relies so heavily on play-to-play substitution of both players and scheme. I think this week you're going to see the defense do reasonably well because they're facing an inexperienced qb on a ground and pound team. But it won't mean much because the Cowboys are presumably gunning to land a top 3 pick at this point.

 

I thought of that yesterday reading Brown's comments too.

 

But this stat doesn't support that theory: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/pacestats

[BarleyNY]

I hate to say it but this is Cleveland Browns-level sh*t

That's harsh, man.

[dave mcbride]

I thought of that yesterday reading Brown's comments too.

 

But this stat doesn't support that theory: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/pacestats

It doesn't? I read it to say that the Bills' defense faced the top 4 offensive pace teams and 8 of the top 10 (and two of them twice). It seems to me to support it.

[The Big Cat]

It doesn't? I read it to say that the Bills' defense faced the top 4 offensive pace teams and 8 of the top 10 (and two of them twice). It seems to me to support it.

 

Then we were unfortunate. I meant to say that the league aggregate has been the same since he was with the Jets. Figures.

[dave mcbride]

 

Then we were unfortunate. I meant to say that the league aggregate has been the same since he was with the Jets. Figures.

Yeah, unfortunate, but it's the coach's job to recognize the strategy of his opponents, and offensive pacing is a part of that. The bottom line is that through 14 games, 10 have been against teams running fast-paced schemes. Watching a lot of games this year, when subjected to the hurry up, the Bills D often seemed like it wasn't quite ready and didn't have quite the right set of players. Schwartz's scheme, which isn't perfect, tends to minimize that flaw.

[Dr. Who]

The question I have is whether Rex's exotic schemes that work well against the old five and seven step drops will ever be successful against the spread, quick release offense.

If the ball is coming out so fast, it doesn't matter how clever and confusing you are with your blitzes.

[FireChan]

Brutal format here, but let's rock.

 

Brown and Mario

 

Brown and Mario only? Not Dareus? And when did Brown become a bad seed? Today, with his comments? Never really heard anything bad about him.

 

Because these two have done jack **** in 2015 and Rex Ryan is 1000 more proven than either of them. And because Mario, KW, Dareus and Hughes have been together since 2012 and had one year of true greatness. And any argument to the contrary is a tremendous oversell.

 

If we're saying that Mario and Brown sucked in 2015, did Rex not also suck in 2015? So that's, at the very least, a wash, no? And didn't KW, Dareus, and Mario all make the Pro-Bowl in 2013? And Jerry Hughes had double digit sacks in 2013 and 2014? Is that not pretty good to great? In fact, the year that we achieved greatness, didn't we also vastly improve our LB group? Bradham and Brown both had good to great years. So maybe the entire defensive unit didn't dominate, but the line dominating, in 2013 was due to weak(er) LB's? I mean, what changed from 2013 to 14? Got rid of a pseudo-RR scheme, went 4-3 where Bradham could really thrive, and added a decent LB starter, and we were off, right? Seems like we could do that again, no?

 

I have never advocating gutting the roster. That's a strawman.

 

But by virtue of advocating for Rex, you are. Do you think RR will keep Bradham, an LB who struggled in this system, but thrived in 2014? Do you think he'll keep KW, an older player, with a history of injuries, large cap hit, and no true fit on his defense? Will RR look to relegate Brown to a bench player or cut him outright? Will Mario be here? Will McKelvin be cut, for the same reasons as KW, and coming off his worst year since 2012? Will Duke Williams be here? Corey Graham, an S who struggled at times, and who also carries a large cap hit? Dareus will be here, but he's also been anti-Rex.

 

By my count, we need to upgrade/replace about 7 positions on this defense, not to mention depth, if we keep Rex. 3 new LB's, 3 new DL's, and 2 safeties (pending on AW). How many players would we need to upgrade/replace if we fired him and went with a 4-3 guy? LB's, maybe 1 more? 1 S? No new DL's? Like I said before, RR isn't going to fill all the holes he has created on defense, and finding the upgrades on O in one season. He has literally created holes. And by advocating for him, you are advocating for more holes, and more deficiencies, and almost a total rebuild. There may be 4 players safe on this defense this offseason. 4. Four. How is that not the roster being gutted?

 

That's a false choice.

 

See above. It really isn't.

 

Edit: One small point, Hughes was added in 2013. They've been together for 3 years, had two good-great years.

Ahem, Big Cat?

[Cash]

 

Then we were unfortunate. I meant to say that the league aggregate has been the same since he was with the Jets. Figures.

I got the same take as dave did - I saw that our defense is 6th overall in seconds/play against, and 2nd(!) in "situation neutral" seconds/play against. I don't know how much of a league-wide trend there is, but Brown's comments about teams hurrying up against us seem to have some merit. I also notice that Dallas is currently dead last in offensive seconds/play. It'll be interesting to see if they try to hurry it up against us as well.

 

Yeah, unfortunate, but it's the coach's job to recognize the strategy of his opponents, and offensive pacing is a part of that. The bottom line is that through 14 games, 10 have been against teams running fast-paced schemes. Watching a lot of games this year, when subjected to the hurry up, the Bills D often seemed like it wasn't quite ready and didn't have quite the right set of players. Schwartz's scheme, which isn't perfect, tends to minimize that flaw.

I'd go a step beyond and say that the D has frequently seemed not-ready against regular offense, not just hurry-up. It's been very frustrating to watch all season. We've had similar problems getting play calls in on offense, but I feel like it's been significantly worse on defense. Probably due to the substitution factor. I don't have a problem with matching up personnel, but Mario had a very legitimate beef talking about how we've frequently been running guys in & out while the other team is breaking their huddle. That's unacceptable to me, and I can't believe that it's the fault of the players. I don't know if it stems from slow decision-making by Rex and/or Thurman, poor communication relaying the decision to the players, or both.

 

To me, the nadir was that Ryan Griffin TD we gave up in the Houston game. Yes, Houston did technically snap it before they were set for a full second, so it should've been illegal procedure. But that doesn't excuse any of the following:

 

1.) Houston had plenty of time to snap the ball legally and still score a TD to either side of the formation.

2.) Even if Houston had waited the full second, there would've been 1 Bill covering 2 eligible receivers to the offensive left and 0 Bills covering 2 eligible receivers to the offensive right.

3.) 0 of the 11 Bills on the field seemed like they had any clue what the defensive play call was supposed to be. I strongly doubt that Brown had gotten the play call yet. 10 guys were basically in the defensive huddle when the ball was snapped, and none of them was in the process of moving anywhere else.

[Dorkington]

It really sounds like it's a mix of a few things.

 

- Some players are being hard headed, they loved last year's system and are dragging their feet into this year's... sometimes freelancing

- Some players (related to the above or not) just simply aren't grasping the new system

- The new system doesn't fit the players on the roster, and the coaches are still forcing it

- The sub packages and play calls are coming in late *relative* to the offense. Whether that's our coaches getting things in late, or our players reacting slowly, or offenses taking advantage of a weakness, or a combination of the three, it's pretty obvious.

 

Basically it all comes down to a complete disconnect between players and coaching. We clearly had success last year, and even the year before, with much of the same lineup. We have talented guys. I'm going to lay most of the blame at the feet of the coaches, but the players also need to do better at buying in and stepping up to the challenge, even though the challenge has been unnecessary, in certain ways.

[Manther]

Literally, is there a single thing a player could say that would raise a red flag for you about coaching?

Yes. Maybe they shouldn't speak out and break the chain of command. But, you do listen to everything. Because every story has two or three sides to it. And, the truth is somewhere in the middle. So, yes, you should always listen.

 

It's been a long time but I don't know that I even remember these kind of issues in the 1 and 2 win seasons with the likes of Harvey Johnson, Hank Bullough & Kay Stephenson as coach. They just had bad players on those teams.

 

Still, of all the ridiculous issues and assinine Rex excuses, the top one for me is that he didn't challenge some plays in the KC game because they didn't show the replay on the stadium screen.

Ha, ha Rex is a joke! Anyone who continues to believe his vague excuses and his lack of answers is a sucker to hustlers. I don't think Rex survives this. If he does I feel like part of the joke!

The one/best thing recks had going for him was he is a players' coach and can get guys, especially on defense run through a wall for him.

 

Here it appears that players are running through a wall to get away from him

Amen! Well said!

[Manther]

 

Lots of defensive players? Mario, Brown and Graham today said there have been communication issues. That's three. Do you consider that "lots?"

 

Why do you ignore all the players who say they have player issues?

That is lots (although there are more than 3) that publicly speak back at their coaches in the NFL. It just is a lot. I count 7 or 8. 10% of a roster of more?

Bottom line is:

When the players aren't buying into the system, it is a coaching issue.

When the plays aren't getting called into the players on time, it is a coaching issue.

Poor use of the clock, time outs & challenges are COACHING issues!!!

I hope we keep Roman, Whaley & some of the specialty coaches but Thurman, Rex and company should be sent packing.

At this point we have 2 options; 1) replace the defensive & Head coaching staff or 2) Replace all the players.

Agreed and agreed. I hope we replace the coaches! Rosters take years to build and we have suffered through that too many times!! Edited December 25, 2015 by Manther

[boyst]

Ahem, Big Cat?

I would agree with almost all you said since the kitty is busy lapping milk.

 

Bradham would likely be kept at a reduced rate but end up leaving in FA due to this team not being conducive to him. Regardless, no reason for him to be counted on as a factor or any improvement.

Being a FA, it could get ugly.

KW will be on this team; I think Whaley, should he be here is too scared to remove a captain and productive player. He's not going to ditch Fred Jackson then KW the next year. But, stranger things have happened. Either way, say he's 80% of what he is this year we will rely on Charles and Bryant next year for depth.

Mario, we can pretend he is gone but I hope he is not. Regardless, we still need another DE.

Dareus will be here.

Hughes should fight for a trade. The guy should want out of here. I would. This team was perfect for him and now it is awful. Getting rid of Mario and any downfall of KW or Dareus could ruin anything.

That's basically saying we need two DL to start next year and an WLB. Powell will be back and likely start.

Take in to account we do not know what to do with Lawson and we are really looking replacing 2 LB and 2 DL. We already need at least one upgrade at S.

Of course, glaring needs at MLB.

We need:

2 DL (1 starter @ DE)

3 LB (2 starter @ SLB and MLB)

1.5 S (1 starter and a lot of hope)

We need 4 starters next year and a lot of depth.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Boyst62