stinky finger Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Do you think that this whole lack of leadership thing has NOT cost us any wins this year? I believe it has. However, the "if Freddy were only here" stuff is a bit overdone.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Do you think that this whole lack of leadership thing has NOT cost us any wins this year? The thing is, it's very hard to lead from the bench. It doesn't carry the same credibility, and the true leaders know it and back off. That's one reason you haven't heard about Kyle Williams as a defensive leader, even though he has been and will be. While you can cheer, and advise, from the sidelines, it lacks credibility to call other guys out if you aren't taking hits and giving them right alongside. The Military calls this being a "REMF" I don't know what football players call it, but to a man every one I've heard interviewed says or implies there limits to what a non-playing leader can do. Like it or not, Freddy would have been #3 RB on offense and spent time as an active scratch here. See above. Some coaches and players are born leaders. Not all players are either born or transform into leaders. That is just the way it is. Where there is a dearth of player leadership the coach absolutely needs to help spawn leaders among the players. He needs to recognize who can be a leader and how they can lead. He needs to communicate that to the player directly or indirectly. Standing on the side and hoping it will happen is not how a coach leads. A farmer does not stand on the side of an unplowed unwatered field and blame the corn for not growing. Good points and very well put. I can remember from the early days of Kelly that he had to learn how to be a leader .... perhaps Marv nudged him into it .... he had to learn that he couldn't single out one of his linemen and take him to the woodshed publically, he had to learn he had to keep positivity to keep the energy high on O even when he was struggling. And he did.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Using sarcasm to mask the fact that a key defensive leader went down seven quarters into the season. Bold strategy. Um, wasn't Searcy lost in FA to the Titans on a $24M FA contract? The OP to whom you're replying here mentioned Searcy. Sammy is saying things that we fundamentally contrary to Mario and Preston. In fact, he's saying the exact same things as Boobie. I think it's interesting that we seem to be hearing different things from the Offense vs Defense units. The Offense seems to feel that they're put in positions to succeed and it's on them to step up and show more leadership and accountability (Sammy, Boobie) The Defense seems to feel that they're not being given the tools they need to succeed such as assignments appropriate to their skills, timely play calls (Dareus, Williams)
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Funny. I read this and think the exact opposite of what you're saying. me too.....
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) There are Bills fans here who straight up cross their arms and stomp their feet, plug their ears and scream LA LA LA LA LA when you bring up the fact that Rex has never not had a good, mostly great defense. There are fans in this very thread who are flatly denying that reality. I hear you on the denial. None of the fools who buy the Rex myth have an answer for the FACT in 2007, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 he fielded below average defenses. 5 times it was worse than the bills d and with future HOFers on the rosters. The modern day NFL has absolutely shredded this dinosaur. If this below is a track record of good to great, the the bills d has been good to great all year! So for those of you keeping score, the defensive ranking for his squads vs others that respective year based on pts allowed: 2005 10th in the NFL as Ravens DC 2006 1 2007 22 2008 3 2009 1 (as jest HC) 2010 6 2011- 20 2012- 20 2013- 19 2014- 24 2015- 17 and dropping.. Edited December 23, 2015 by over 20 years of fanhood
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2015 Author Posted December 23, 2015 If you're going to blather presumptuously and more or less incoherently about a "reality" where Aaron Williams not playing was the downfall of the Bills' defense, then there's no use discussing anything with you. "The Bills rank a staggeringly-bad 29th in defensive DVOA this season, down from second in the league under Schwartz last year." Well, he's one guy who missed time this year. You want to compare last year to this year? Okay. Defensive starters missed 13 games last year. They'll have missed 35 through Sunday with one week to play. That's nearly three times as many games missed by starters. Not sure why you think anyone is talking exclusively about Aaron Williams here. Year after year of no new leaders emerging from teams which each have 53 players mathematically eliminates the need to be in the locker room. I think Rex is an awesome guy. i really like him a lot and want him to be able to adjust his style, but if he doesn't none of this will change. We will need to get lucky by drafting or acquiring a natural and clear leader. Instead of getting all caustic and defensive about the last sentence I wrote how about discussing the middle paragraph of my post. Was Kelly an effective leader before being nudged? Thurman? They have stated that they were not. They credit Marv and others for moving them in that direction. They do it all the time. Are they wrong? Although not the greatest player on those teams I would say that from what I see Frank Reich was a leader that probably didn't need that nudging. It doesn't make him more or less of a leader, just different. I sincerely apologize for being caustic. It's Christmas, I'm out of town and with family. I think you understand. As for coaches having to direct players how to be leaders, we will have to agree to disagree on whose responsibility it is to be the genesis for that. As for Thurman being a leader...well...that's a new one. Likewise Jimbo. Were they stars? Yes. Leaders....eeeeeeeh. I'd say this conversation is more about the Talley/Hull type leadership and presence that the 2015 team sorely lacks. Is there any arguing at this point that the current team doesn't lack that? Jimbo's requisite post-game parties is precisely the kind of thing that this team severely lacks, though.
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2015 Author Posted December 23, 2015 Um, wasn't Searcy lost in FA to the Titans on a $24M FA contract? The OP to whom you're replying here mentioned Searcy. I think it's interesting that we seem to be hearing different things from the Offense vs Defense units. The Offense seems to feel that they're put in positions to succeed and it's on them to step up and show more leadership and accountability (Sammy, Boobie) The Defense seems to feel that they're not being given the tools they need to succeed such as assignments appropriate to their skills, timely play calls (Dareus, Williams) I find it courious that the offense is happy as can be. FWIW, Bradham (who wants a contract) thinks players should know when to shut their mouths and do their jobs: http://twitter.com/TyDunne/status/679740076482555905 http://twitter.com/mikerodak/status/679741527384408064
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 I find it courious that the offense is happy as can be. Where do you get that "the offense is as happy as can be"?
gumby Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 I believe when a player only meeting is called it's a sign things are going off the rails. But I do agree there is no leadership in that lockerroom. To think that coaches exert leadership inside the lockerroom is fallacious. Coaches rarely if ever enter the lockerroom, that is the domain of the players. You look at all the successful teams in the league and they all have clear leaders on the field. Who on the Bills is that? Rex has his issues and he was a disappointment this season but I'm not going to blame him for lack of leadership inside the lockerroom. That falls squarely on the players. When Jerry Hughes (as an example) screws up with a dumb penalty who is he answerable to? The coaches? yes and I'm sure he hears about it from them but it needs to be more than that. What player on the D is going to pull him aside and tell him in no uncertain terms that his personal fouls is unacceptable? I don't get a sense there is anybody doing that and that to me is a big problem.
4merper4mer Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Well, he's one guy who missed time this year. You want to compare last year to this year? Okay. Defensive starters missed 13 games last year. They'll have missed 35 through Sunday with one week to play. That's nearly three times as many games missed by starters. Not sure why you think anyone is talking exclusively about Aaron Williams here. I sincerely apologize for being caustic. It's Christmas, I'm out of town and with family. I think you understand. As for coaches having to direct players how to be leaders, we will have to agree to disagree on whose responsibility it is to be the genesis for that. As for Thurman being a leader...well...that's a new one. Likewise Jimbo. Were they stars? Yes. Leaders....eeeeeeeh. I'd say this conversation is more about the Talley/Hull type leadership and presence that the 2015 team sorely lacks. Is there any arguing at this point that the current team doesn't lack that? Jimbo's requisite post-game parties is precisely the kind of thing that this team severely lacks, though. No worries. i can see your point on Thurman to an extent but Kelly was a leader on the team without question. To say he wasn't or to to say he didn't need to be nudged in the right direction to become one would be incorrect.
FireChan Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Where do you get that "the offense is as happy as can be"? Probably because we haven't had any offensive players B word to the media about this offense and how it is making them look bad, or anything like that.
3rdand12 Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Sammy is saying things that we fundamentally contrary to Mario and Preston. In fact, he's saying the exact same things as Boobie. And Corey aint far behind. This whole unhappy players is BS. stop coddling the children Rex. Bring up the film in front of god and everyone( all the defense) and ask them wtf were you thinking on this play and why. Did you not understand the call? and then dig into it. Time for players and coaches to have it out?
3rdand12 Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 thing is Rex speaks to Mario on the sideline when he wants to get the message across. You can see it. I think he expected Mario and Jerry to be the leaders when Kyle went down, if not before. Thing is Mario is too quiet and wierd, and Hughes is over the top. No one replaced Kyle even though he wanted to stay on the sidelines to help. fact. He has called team meetings before btw. team lacks player leaders. No true Alpha males. just some Deltas that the Betas looked up too. Rex should rethink the weekly Captain BS thing for now and next year
4merper4mer Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 And Corey aint far behind. This whole unhappy players is BS. stop coddling the children Rex. Bring up the film in front of god and everyone( all the defense) and ask them wtf were you thinking on this play and why. Did you not understand the call? and then dig into it. Time for players and coaches to have it out? Understand what call? The one that came in .0004 seconds before the snap?
firemedic Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 I think the biggest problem was the fixing of something that wasn't broken..........(defense) That spawned everything else.
3rdand12 Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Understand what call? The one that came in .0004 seconds before the snap? Yep. That very one lets not mix up package substitutions with being confused shall we ? : ) I think the biggest problem was the fixing of something that wasn't broken..........(defense) That spawned everything else. in its way, you are 100 % correct. but it is conjecture at this point. and a dividing point amongst us , unfortunately
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