Kelly the Dog Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 How else do you explain the drop in sacks? Lack of effort? I think you're seeing a frustrated Mario not giving it his all at this point, but earlier in the year he certainly was as nobody seems to buy into this gap control defense. Rex put stopping the run first over getting after the QB. In the game today, why the hell would you do that? No clue. It was a total failure. My first thought was he was trying to fool offenses into mistakes and turnovers. But he didn't really press much early either. Sometimes he was not rushing even four AND not press covering which is insane. And showed.
Peter Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 As an aside, putting pressure on the QB can lead to sacks (if the QB holds on to the ball too long) or forcing the QB to get rid of the ball early. It seems to me that when you force a QB to throw the ball in under two seconds, the defensive pressure (real or imagined) is effective.
Prickly Pete Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) While firing Wrex would send a bad message to prospective coaches, the flip side is, how many D-lineman will be anxious to sign here after this mess? Edited December 22, 2015 by HoF Watkins
Kelly the Dog Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 As an aside, putting pressure on the QB can lead to sacks (if the QB holds on to the ball too long) or forcing the QB to get rid of the ball early. It seems to me that when you force a QB to throw the ball in under two seconds, the defensive pressure (real or imagined) is effective. Not if you are not covering guys and are giving up quick completion after completion too. Which we also were.
Peter Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 Not if you are not covering guys and are giving up quick completion after completion too. Which we also were. I was commenting on the pressure aspect of it.
Nihilarian Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 While firing Wrex would send a bad message to prospective coaches, the flip side is, how many D-lineman will be anxious to sign here after this mess? I don't believe this for a second as even the bad (Rex) NFL head coaches are 100% convinced of their ability to build a winning team. As for the players, simply pay them enough and they will come, but would you really want to see another year of this undisciplined mess of a defense? Is it wrong of me to want someone in Buffalo that can whup Bill Belicheats arse 2x a year? There are head coaches out there that would give the Patriots a run every year. Pete Carroll, John Harbough (previous to this season) John Fox (Denver), Bruce Arians, Tom Coughlin, Mike Tomlin. We Bills fans deserve the best and I only hope the Pegula's give it to us in 2016.
Mickey Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 Isn't very exciting. It is the injuries. And this is not an excuse. In 2014 the base defense was: Mario, Kyle, Dareus, and Hughes up front. Together they missed a grand total of two games, one was for suspension. The starting linebacking corps was Preston Brown, Brandon Spikes, and Nigel Bradham. They missed two games, one was for suspension. The starting secondary was Gilmore, McKelvin, Searcy, and Aaron Williams, with Robey & Graham playing extensively. McKelvin suffered the only serious injury of the year in November. Gilmore missed two games, and Aaron Williams missed one. The key subs on that team (Corbin Bryant, Stefan Charles, Duke Williams, Baccari Rambo, Manny Lawson) were all healthy. 2015: Kyle Williams played six games and is IR'd Aaron Williams has basically missed the entire year. McKelvin missed more than half the season. Mario has obviously been playing through injury and is in physical decline. Ty Powell out all season. Gilmore missed four. Bradham has missed three games and counting. This combined with our strict attention to offense in the offseason means that our effective part-time players (Bryant, Lawson, Rambo) are playing all the time and getting exposed, and our depth guys are the likes of Randall Johnson, Ron Brooks, AJ Tarpley, IK Enemkpali, Kevin Reddick, TJ Barnes, etc. The defense on the field against the Eagles and Redskins is not a talented defense. We can talk about scheme or Mario's discontent, but it isn't the point. This is not an excuse - it means Whaley needs to find better depth and Rex needs to get more out of marginal players. There seems to be a narrative that this is a highly talented defense that has underperformed. It is in reality, a defense with 3-5 excellent players, some of whom have been hurt, and a lot of backups. Injuries had nothing to do with their getting their hats handed to them defensively by Brady in week 2 and by the Giants in week 4. The problems on defense were present before the injuries started piling up. The injuries made those problems worse. Also, your comparison with last year's team leaves out Darby, a significant upgrade over McKelvin. Yet despite that upgrade, the defense was awful to start with and then got worse from there on. There is just no way for me to continue believing in the claims that Rex is a defensive genius after this season.
Formerly Allan in MD Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 Isn't very exciting. It is the injuries. And this is not an excuse. In 2014 the base defense was: Mario, Kyle, Dareus, and Hughes up front. Together they missed a grand total of two games, one was for suspension. The starting linebacking corps was Preston Brown, Brandon Spikes, and Nigel Bradham. They missed two games, one was for suspension. The starting secondary was Gilmore, McKelvin, Searcy, and Aaron Williams, with Robey & Graham playing extensively. McKelvin suffered the only serious injury of the year in November. Gilmore missed two games, and Aaron Williams missed one. The key subs on that team (Corbin Bryant, Stefan Charles, Duke Williams, Baccari Rambo, Manny Lawson) were all healthy. 2015: Kyle Williams played six games and is IR'd Aaron Williams has basically missed the entire year. McKelvin missed more than half the season. Mario has obviously been playing through injury and is in physical decline. Ty Powell out all season. Gilmore missed four. Bradham has missed three games and counting. This combined with our strict attention to offense in the offseason means that our effective part-time players (Bryant, Lawson, Rambo) are playing all the time and getting exposed, and our depth guys are the likes of Randall Johnson, Ron Brooks, AJ Tarpley, IK Enemkpali, Kevin Reddick, TJ Barnes, etc. The defense on the field against the Eagles and Redskins is not a talented defense. We can talk about scheme or Mario's discontent, but it isn't the point. This is not an excuse - it means Whaley needs to find better depth and Rex needs to get more out of marginal players. There seems to be a narrative that this is a highly talented defense that has underperformed. It is in reality, a defense with 3-5 excellent players, some of whom have been hurt, and a lot of backups. Nice try.
klos63 Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) Good teams find ways to win. Blaming injuries is a cop out. Even when they were on the field, they didn't do jack. You may not like the excuse, but it's a legitimate one. It may not be the only reason, but it's a big one. It's absurd to think that missing many of the people you were counting on to help you win not being there didn't hurt. There are certainly teams that have overcome injuries, but look at Dallas, a preseason Super Bowl candidate unraveled without Romo. Again, it's not the only reason, but it's a significant one. Edited December 23, 2015 by klos63
Peter Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 I wonder whether Dallas Cowboys fans think that an injury destroyed their season?!? It is mind boggling to me that certain Bills fans want to diminish the effect that injuries had on the Bills' season just to support their anti Rex narrative.
Nihilarian Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 I wonder whether Dallas Cowboys fans think that an injury destroyed their season?!? It is mind boggling to me that certain Bills fans want to diminish the effect that injuries had on the Bills' season just to support their anti Rex narrative. It did, and no question about it to lose their elite starting QB for most of the season, and then need to trade for the Bills 3rd stringer who went 1-7 because they didn't have a decent backup QB to begin with. That's an apple to oranges argument, though. With Buffalo, we are talking about a season where the defense lost games before they started to lose players. The Bills still had Stephon Gilmore, Alex Carrington in their loss to the Chiefs in week 12. The first six losses were to Patriots 2x, Giants, Bengals, Jags, Chiefs, and still beat the 6-6 Texans in week 13. In Week 11 the defense made Tom Brady scream like a little girl in their second game, and held that high-scoring Patriots offense to its lowest output of the season with just 20 points. The defense managed to do that without Kyle, Mario, Aaron Williams. Did the injuries have an effect, in a word yes! Did it drastically effect the outcome of the defensive ineptitude in the first two-thirds of this season, now way!
Dopey Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 It did, and no question about it to lose their elite starting QB for most of the season, and then need to trade for the Bills 3rd stringer who went 1-7 because they didn't have a decent backup QB to begin with. That's an apple to oranges argument, though. With Buffalo, we are talking about a season where the defense lost games before they started to lose players. The Bills still had Stephon Gilmore, Alex Carrington in their loss to the Chiefs in week 12. The first six losses were to Patriots 2x, Giants, Bengals, Jags, Chiefs, and still beat the 6-6 Texans in week 13. In Week 11 the defense made Tom Brady scream like a little girl in their second game, and held that high-scoring Patriots offense to its lowest output of the season with just 20 points. The defense managed to do that without Kyle, Mario, Aaron Williams. Did the injuries have an effect, in a word yes! Did it drastically effect the outcome of the defensive ineptitude in the first two-thirds of this season, now way! Every team deals with injuries. The Pats are on like their 10th left tackle, 8th rb , 9th wr, etc. I could go on with the Steelers and other teams. They don't have a clown as a coach. I would add the last two-thirds of the season were still on this clown of a coach.
GG Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Every team deals with injuries. The Pats are on like their 10th left tackle, 8th rb , 9th wr, etc. I could go on with the Steelers and other teams. They don't have a clown as a coach. I would add the last two-thirds of the season were still on this clown of a coach. If the Bills had a QB who could pick up reasonable 1st downs in the 4th quarter, they would have 3 more wins even with the injuries.
TPS Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Injuries had nothing to do with their getting their hats handed to them defensively by Brady in week 2 and by the Giants in week 4. The problems on defense were present before the injuries started piling up. The injuries made those problems worse. Also, your comparison with last year's team leaves out Darby, a significant upgrade over McKelvin. Yet despite that upgrade, the defense was awful to start with and then got worse from there on. There is just no way for me to continue believing in the claims that Rex is a defensive genius after this season. you can throw in week 6 too, the Cincinnati game.
Dopey Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 If the Bills had a QB who could pick up reasonable 1st downs in the 4th quarter, they would have 3 more wins even with the injuries. If the Bills had the top 5 d they should be, they would have at least 3 more wins, even with injuries. That's on Rex, not TT. JMO
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 How else do you explain the drop in sacks? Lack of effort? I think you're seeing a frustrated Mario not giving it his all at this point, but earlier in the year he certainly was as nobody seems to buy into this gap control defense. Rex put stopping the run first over getting after the QB. In the game today, why the hell would you do that? The idea is to keep teams in long 3rd down situations. And get off the field quickly. When we're stuck on the field for long drives we've struggled. I think the substitution issues are a big thing - and preston brown not being able to handle being the play caller. He isn't communicating with the team well, and no one knows whats going on. You blame the coaches - but you're out there as the captain on the D. Step it up. As for the pass rush - were rushing 4, were blitzing - and no ones getting there to make plays consistently.
yungmack Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 I believe that injuries and immature petulance from the players and leadership on offense that was too-late emerging in Fred's absence all add up to a terribly disappointing season. But I don't believe it's a reflection of the head coach to the extent that we can accurately evaluate him as a success (which he's obviously not) or as a failure (which the last three weeks on this message board will indicate, is highly debatable). Your fierce devotion to and defense of Rex in which you find that he is blameless in all matters concerning the team and in which the talent, health, intelligence, dedication of the players is the source of this enormous 2015 fail leads me to ask you a serious question: do you work for Rex or are you friends with him, his family or his management?
Manther Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Your fierce devotion to and defense of Rex in which you find that he is blameless in all matters concerning the team and in which the talent, health, intelligence, dedication of the players is the source of this enormous 2015 fail leads me to ask you a serious question: do you work for Rex or are you friends with him, his family or his management?Great question!
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Your fierce devotion to and defense of Rex in which you find that he is blameless in all matters concerning the team and in which the talent, health, intelligence, dedication of the players is the source of this enormous 2015 fail leads me to ask you a serious question: do you work for Rex or are you friends with him, his family or his management? You read that as me saying he was blameless?
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