PromoTheRobot Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 Where do you get the notion that everybody needs to be replaced? I see a malcontent overpriced mutinous DE and a new MLB. The rest of the pieces are in good position. I wasn't speaking of Mario specifically. Just the notion that Rex failed because he didn't have the right guys to run his magical defense.
GG Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 The results do not indicate that we only need a new DE and MLB. Do you think this defense would be drastically different if you swapped out Mario/Brown for Wilkerson/Harris?
RyanC883 Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 If they hire Tales from the Crypt Polian it will get even worse. Whaley has done a good job with personnel. If he was the initiator of Rex then it is on him. If he agreed to the Pegulas wishes IMO he shouldn't be punished for that, If it's Polian the team is doooomed...unless Whaley retains control of making a roster. The team would have made the playoffs this year with last years D. The problem is clearly Rex.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 if bringing a Czar on board who then decides to axe Rex is the play, it then protects Pegula from being known as an owner who fires a coach after 1 year, although if there is a Coach who deserves to get canned after 1 year it is Rex. I hear people say our record is about where the pundits predicted it would be, and that we had a shot at 5 games down to the last drive. I look at the context of how we play and what our character is - I see what you all see: sloppy, undisciplined, no accountability, unprepared, unintelligent play. This is what is embarrassing - the clown car show. The whole final drive excuse is a red herring from the QB haters. They just look for ways to spin everything to their twisted view. The fact is the offense and QB position improved and exceeded our preseason hopes. What failed was the collapse of our vaunted defense.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 Marrone left on his own volition so it is futile to discuss his departure. But what I will say about him and believe it is a fair analysis about his tenure is that he did more with less talent than Rex who did less with more talent. DM made a very early unfavorable assessment on EJ that proved to be right. He also made an early unfavorable assessment on Kujo that also proved to be right. On those two players both coaches agreed with each other. I bring up these two players because DM was skewered for not giving these players enough opportunity. In the end what he saw in each player materialized. It's difficult to make a fair judgment on a two year coaching stint. However, Doug Marrone took over a team that was in a rebuild mode. In his first year the team won 4 games. The next year the team won 9 games (some say 8) even though their offense was far from being adequately staffed, especially on the OL and at qb. Doug Marrone was a tough coach. He strictly held the players accountable. A lot of players didn't like him for his tough stance. But they always played hard for him. Compare that to what is going on now. Especially on defense this is a fractured team, a team that is in a free fall. My point is simple. Although Doug Marrone was unlikable he was a better coach than the more likable current coach. The bottom line is it is about the bottom line. Without any hesitation I would take the former dour coach over the present loquacious coach. I've said this before, but I disagree with your final point. I think Marrone and Rex are dopplegangers, mirror images, each with a fatal flaw. Marrone was an offense-minded coach who was smart enough to hire the best available talent at DC and leave them alone. The offensive unit he had, on the other hand, significantly underperformed. Keep in mind he had a younger FredEx and CJ Spiller, whose production fell off greatly from where it was under Gailey. He also had Watkins, Woods, a TE who was picked up by the Pats**, and Hogan as well as Goodwin who did show himself a deep threat when healthy. He did have some talent on the offensive side. He appeared to hold grudges and bench players whose training room regimen he disapproved after they became healthy. Rex is a defense-minded coach who was smart enough to hire an OC who had shown he could get good performance out of meh QB and go to championships, give them good talent in McCoy, Karlos Williams, Woods, Watkins, Harvin, Hogan, and Clay . The defensive unit he has, on the other hand, significantly underperformed. He talked the talk about fitting his scheme to the talented players he had, but when it came down to it, he brought out a scheme that appears most ill-suited to the players talent. He didn't walk the walk. He embraces distractions that have to take away from preparation, including TV shows etc. He appears unable to hold players accountable for undiscipline play. I would like to see a coach who functions as a head coach and brings in competence at both OC and DC. It was sad to watch Arizona just shredding the same Eagles D that stopped us and macerating the same Eagles offense we couldn't stop last week
PromoTheRobot Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 If it's Polian the team is doooomed...unless Whaley retains control of making a roster. The team would have made the playoffs this year with last years D. The problem is clearly Rex. If Polian wants to plug in his idiot son, run.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) My guess is that the Pegulas relied more on Whaley's input than Brandon's for the Rex hire, hence the hot seat for Whaley now. I don't think that's a good guess. Edited December 21, 2015 by Hopeful
RyanC883 Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 If there were rumors of Whaley wanting Hue Jackson I didn't hear / read of them. What I do recall is Russ Brandon telling the new owners that "they" would know who to hire after they spoke with him. My thoughts derived the way they did because of the Mike Pettine hire fresh from Rex Ryan's team to run the Bills 2013 defense. Pettine was on Rex's defensive staff as the DC from 2009-2012, and then why not bring in the master to make the defense even better. If I'm not mistaken both Whaley, and Brandon met with Pettine before the team hired him. Pettine as DC is the only hope. But then Rex needs to be told he has zero control over the D and it's all Pettine, just like it was several years ago here. If Polian wants to plug in his idiot son, run. That would be such a terrible move. I wonder who Pegula is allegedly speaking with.
GG Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 I wasn't speaking of Mario specifically. Just the notion that Rex failed because he didn't have the right guys to run his magical defense. I'm sure more will be written once the door hits Mario's butt, but his mutinous behavior had a huge role in the defensive collapse.
bigK14094 Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 I'm not sure how I feel about this. I'm still stunned that this season has played out the way it has. I was on board with the idea of Rex, but I'm really starting to see that it's a mistake and he just hands out jobs to his buddies and he isn't flexible enough to change things to use what works. Rex is a one trick pony.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 Pettine as DC is the only hope. But then Rex needs to be told he has zero control over the D and it's all Pettine, just like it was several years ago here. That would be such a terrible move. I wonder who Pegula is allegedly speaking with. You do recall that the Pettine D, while aggressive with blitzing, couldn't stop the run? Im not sure they could stop a nosebleed.
26CornerBlitz Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 Pettine as DC is the only hope. But then Rex needs to be told he has zero control over the D and it's all Pettine, just like it was several years ago here. Rex isn't going to be here under that emasculating scenario with his former understudy Pettine calling the defense. He'd be gone before that would happen.
DrDawkinstein Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 Changes need to be made, but Im not sure I'd agree with demoting or moving away from Whaley. And at this point, I dont need many more reasons to not renew my tickets next year.
BuffaninATL Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 The whole final drive excuse is a red herring from the QB haters. They just look for ways to spin everything to their twisted view. The fact is the offense and QB position improved and exceeded our preseason hopes. What failed was the collapse of our vaunted defense. agreed, and you could make the argument that the offense/QB exceeded our hopes despite some dubious game planning & playcalling from GRo
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 A disappointment? Absolutely! A disaster is taking it too far IMO. I go that far. On D, taking a top-5 D to what we have now is indeed a "disaster"
billykaykay Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 I do partly agree with this. I am not big into canning a coach after the first year but this was a big mistake hiring and it is brutally obvious. Whaley I don't know. He has done some good things, he also has done some things that are fireable offenses. Drafting EJ & then pushing him on not one but 2 coaching staffs, trading up for Watkins when we could of had Beckham if we just sat tight. I don't know tough call. The OBJ thing is BS hindsight.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 I go that far. On D, taking a top-5 D to what we have now is indeed a "disaster" Disaster is not an inaccurate description.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 I'm sure more will be written once the door hits Mario's butt, but his mutinous behavior had a huge role in the defensive collapse. Which came first, the egg or the chicken? Players know when they're being asked to execute roles that don't suit their skills in ineffective schemes. Think about how Mario played under Wannstache. Would everyone prefer a guy with Mario's physical skills and football talent and Kyle Williams' lunchpail mentality and work ethic, Yes. But most everyone would take a guy with Mario's physical skills and football talent and just put him in a role that suits him in a scheme that works. Getting rid of talented players then drafting to fill holes used to be looked down upon around here.
KOKBILLS Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 I know some of you folks are concerned about a house cleaning... I'm not...I think it's the best thing... The only thing I'm kind-of-hoping is that Whaley can stay in charge of the Scouting Department, because I do think he's a pretty decent at evaluating talent and running that side...But it's not like I'm going to lose any sleep if they blow that up as well... I just don't see how it's possible for anyone to think another couple years of Rex gives us a better chance at winning...Especially if we are unable to find a Franchise QB...Which is more-than-likely...Unfortunate as it is...I don't think Rex "has it" any longer...He could not get this team to buy in, and even though he's just about the polar-opposite of Marrone personality-wise Rex could not get this roster to take the next step despite upgrades at QB, RB, OG, TE, and CB...I think it's very much a possibility that Rex's time as a legit HC in this league has come and gone...Since the beginning of the 2011 season Rex is 32-46 as a HC...There are probably a million reasons why...But it is what it is...He's not getting the job done...Period... So yes...I hope we get a President Of Football Operations, and I hope the first thing he does is can Rex... But maybe that's just me...
PlayoffsPlease Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 The whole final drive excuse is a red herring from the QB haters. They just look for ways to spin everything to their twisted view. The fact is the offense and QB position improved and exceeded our preseason hopes. What failed was the collapse of our vaunted defense. Tyrod has been the best QB the Bills have had in a long time. But that is an incredibly low bar to grade a QB on. He has some serious deficiencies for a guy finishing his fifth year in the league. He has the slowest release time in the league, slower than the true rookies starting this year. It appears that the coaches only trust him with half-field read plays. These things can improve. But it is foolish to assume they will. Bills need to treat the draft as if they have no PROVEN commodity at QB.
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