We Need A Real QB

[Adam]

Also.....lets not count the fact that franchise qbs have up and down quarters as well (and I am not even calling TT a franchise QB at this point)

I'm not even saying that he won't. We need to be looking all positions. I'd be looking OL and TE upgrades first on offense, but if competition presents itself at QB, grab it.

[Big Gun]

No I just read idiotic posts about getting rid of a QB that has had one of the best seasons of any QB in the league and was just named a Pro Bowl alternate. Because you geniuses know that there are a million better options out there.

Ok, whatever genius!

[Virgil]

Again, nowhere did I say he shouldn't be back and nowhere did I say we should bring in a guy and anoint him as the starter. He's not a terrible option and should remain the starter until we have a better option.

 

Taylor isn't the reason the Bills missed the playoffs, but he isn't going to have this magical improvement down the road. Even if we don't improve the position, I'd say all this team needs to reach the playoffs is a viable coach. To go beyond that, they will need more from the quarterback, OL and defense. The defensive personnel is there, it just needs to be used.

If you need me to clarify something, just ask

 

How can you possibly know that? I think it's pretty common knowledge that most guys take a few years as a starter before they show who they are. Anyone you draft is going to need the same amount of time.

 

So, unless you plan on signing a FA QB who is rated higher than him (none available btw), I don't see what your solution is still.

 

I'm all for drafting a QB. TT is going to get hurt again with how he plays. And if that guy eventually turns out better, sure. But to overall say we need a better QB already...sorry, not getting it

[Adam]

 

How can you possibly know that? I think it's pretty common knowledge that most guys take a few years as a starter before they show who they are. Anyone you draft is going to need the same amount of time.

 

So, unless you plan on signing a FA QB who is rated higher than him (none available btw), I don't see what your solution is still.

 

I'm all for drafting a QB. TT is going to get hurt again with how he plays. And if that guy eventually turns out better, sure. But to overall say we need a better QB already...sorry, not getting it

My solution is to improve the team. The people who just want to scrap TT without a better option are idiots. That is what made the team suck for almost two decades now. Bring in a couple guys who can compete/push him. Build up the line. I think a lot of TT's success is based on a lot of talent around him, but sure- I have seen some things in him. By no means have I suggested getting rid of him.

[fridge]

No I just read idiotic posts about getting rid of a QB that has had one of the best seasons of any QB in the league and was just named a Pro Bowl alternate. Because you geniuses know that there are a million better options out there.

 

This simply is not true. I'm not sure why I keep seeing this. He is 25th in yards, and if you want to use the excuse that he missed two games, it is even worse - he's 34th in yards per game.

 

I've said this a bunch, and boy do I hope that I'm wrong, but his stats are so limited due to his lack of attempts, that his passer rating is absolutely skewed and will almost certainly regress towards the mean. If he passed as much as these top QB's that you think he is neck and neck with, he would be throwing picks like crazy and your precious QB Rating would be ruined.

 

You can look to the season where Nick Foles threw for 27 TDs and 2 INTs. He was very safe, but, like Tyrod didn't necessarily use dump-offs for his numbers. He led the league in Y/A, TD%, and QB Rating. He only started 10 games that year, and outside of Philly I'm not sure people thought he was the real deal. Most talked about this regression toward the mean with meaningful pass attempts, and you all know what happened the following year.

 

I am hoping that Tyrod can "progess" but I don't think that it is practical. Kirby, and the other posters that are enamored with these "stats" are looking at all the wrong stats, all the while calling me insane. They're not being practical, and honestly they are setting themselves up for disappointment. It's possible that we just have a very limited offense without a passing threat next season, and Tyrod maintains his very high qb rating (without a lot of yards or TDs), but I don't think that is good for the team, and as we're seeing over time it is not a successful method for winning football games.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I'm so sick of fans wanting an elite QB overnight. It doesn't work that way.

Edited December 26, 2015 by TheTruthHurts

[Felonious Monk]

 

You can look to the season where Nick Foles threw for 27 TDs and 2 INTs. He was very safe, but, like Tyrod didn't necessarily use dump-offs for his numbers. He led the league in Y/A, TD%, and QB Rating. He only started 10 games that year, and outside of Philly I'm not sure people thought he was the real deal. Most talked about this regression toward the mean with meaningful pass attempts, and you all know what happened the following year.

 

I don't think that's a fair comparison. Forget Y/A, TD% and QB rating. Let's look past all of Foles' personal stats in 2013. He played behind the best offensive line in the NFL, and it wasn't even close.The Eagles' o-line was #1 in run blocking, which helped Shady (a top-two running back) rack up 2,146 yards from scrimmage. That took a lot of pressure off Foles and opened things up nicely, giving him lots of time back there. Add to that the fact that all five starting offensive linemen started every game that year, including the playoffs -- and all five played together for 5839 of 5945 snaps -- an average of 98.18% -- and Foles' "magical" season suddenly becomes a lot more explainable. Evan Mathis and Jason Peters played at an All-Pro level, and while Jason Kelce wasn't quite there, he was very good. So was Todd Herremans. The Eagles' #4 overall pick that year -- RT Lane Johnson -- was the "weakest link," allowing 10 sacks -- but he was excellent against the run, outplaying the two linemen taken before him in that draft, and being ranked 10th through 12th in the league that year (depending on publication you're referencing) among all OTs. As for system, Philly ran the spread offense under Chip Kelly, which Foles knew well from his days as a Wildcat.

 

In response to the other bolded point, I don't think we all know -- or care to acknowledge -- what happened the following year. Mathis and Kelce missed significant time with injuries, Johnson served a four-game suspension to start the season and key backup Allen Barbre's season ended Week 1. Their replacements were awful. The decimated line also affected Shady, who had only five rushing TDs and didn't catch a single TD pass. The OL started playing well again as the injured guys healed up -- just in time to see Sanchez under center. I have no idea what the Rams were thinking when they traded for Foles. While Rex forced the Bills' defense to learn his scheme this year, the Rams went the other way and devised an offense that catered to Foles -- shotgun heavy. It was completely unfamiliar to the team and was a disaster, leading to the firing of their offensive coordinator mid-season and Foles' benching.

 

I'm not saying Foles is good. He is mediocre at best, and that's being generous. My point is that you or I could have had success behind the Eagles' OL in 2013. The sad reality is that the Bills' OL is nowhere near that caliber. And then there are penalties. While the 2013 Eagles committed 99 accepted penalties for 889 yards through 17 games, the Bills this year have committed 132 penalties for 1,142 yards with two games left to play. How fans can't understand what that does to a QB is beyond me. Considering that Roman is TT's fifth offensive coordinator in five years and that TT learned everything through osmosis riding the pine watching Flacco, I'd say TT has done very well as a first-year starter. Think Baltimore would welcome him back these days? I do.

 

As others have stated, any NFL team's goal should be to improve at every position. In 2016, free agency won't be a viable option at QB, with Sam Bradford leading the free agent class. If there's a promising QB that falls to us in the draft, grab him and let him and TT battle it out in training camp, as others have suggested in this thread. The Bills have very little invested in TT and if he flames out, oh well. What is their cap hit for TT next year -- just over $1 million? Contrary to what others have written in this thread, there is no elite QB in next year's class. Despite this, Lynch will be gone by the time the Bills pick, and Goff, too, with Cleveland, San Francisco and Philly in the market -- and possibly Dallas, San Diego and New Orleans due to aging franchise QBs. One could grab Conor Cook, who is physically gifted but mentally immature and has character issues. I've been reading that NFL scouts don't like him because they say he's "more interested in being a celebrity." Johnny Football II, anyone? No thanks. (He'd be a great fit in Dallas, though). Who's next? Conklin, if he declares? IMO he's a reach in the first round and would be gone by the time the Bills are up in Round 2.

 

With free agency a laughable option and the top QBs likely gone by the time the Bills pick, I think Tyrod's detractors will be very disappointed next year.

[Maury Ballstein]

I'm so sick of fans wanting an elite QB overnight. It doesn't work that way.

How does it work ? I don't think the buffalo bills know.

 

10 plus years w no qb.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

How does it work ? I don't think the buffalo bills know.

 

10 plus years w no qb.

It works by a young QB gradually growing in the same offense over multiple years. Edited December 26, 2015 by TheTruthHurts

[thebandit27]

Still waiting for the person that thinks anything other than:

 

- Tyrod surpassed everyone's expectations this year; he still has some areas that need to improve, but has earned a chance to go into the offseason as the starter

- a veteran backup is sorely needed

- The team needs to spend a high draft pick (1st-3rd round) on a franchise QB prospect

 

But by all means let's keep beating each other's opinions into the ground on minutiae

[Big Gun]

 

I don't think that's a fair comparison. Forget Y/A, TD% and QB rating. Let's look past all of Foles' personal stats in 2013. He played behind the best offensive line in the NFL, and it wasn't even close.The Eagles' o-line was #1 in run blocking, which helped Shady (a top-two running back) rack up 2,146 yards from scrimmage. That took a lot of pressure off Foles and opened things up nicely, giving him lots of time back there. Add to that the fact that all five starting offensive linemen started every game that year, including the playoffs -- and all five played together for 5839 of 5945 snaps -- an average of 98.18% -- and Foles' "magical" season suddenly becomes a lot more explainable. Evan Mathis and Jason Peters played at an All-Pro level, and while Jason Kelce wasn't quite there, he was very good. So was Todd Herremans. The Eagles' #4 overall pick that year -- RT Lane Johnson -- was the "weakest link," allowing 10 sacks -- but he was excellent against the run, outplaying the two linemen taken before him in that draft, and being ranked 10th through 12th in the league that year (depending on publication you're referencing) among all OTs. As for system, Philly ran the spread offense under Chip Kelly, which Foles knew well from his days as a Wildcat.

 

In response to the other bolded point, I don't think we all know -- or care to acknowledge -- what happened the following year. Mathis and Kelce missed significant time with injuries, Johnson served a four-game suspension to start the season and key backup Allen Barbre's season ended Week 1. Their replacements were awful. The decimated line also affected Shady, who had only five rushing TDs and didn't catch a single TD pass. The OL started playing well again as the injured guys healed up -- just in time to see Sanchez under center. I have no idea what the Rams were thinking when they traded for Foles. While Rex forced the Bills' defense to learn his scheme this year, the Rams went the other way and devised an offense that catered to Foles -- shotgun heavy. It was completely unfamiliar to the team and was a disaster, leading to the firing of their offensive coordinator mid-season and Foles' benching.

 

I'm not saying Foles is good. He is mediocre at best, and that's being generous. My point is that you or I could have had success behind the Eagles' OL in 2013. The sad reality is that the Bills' OL is nowhere near that caliber. And then there are penalties. While the 2013 Eagles committed 99 accepted penalties for 889 yards through 17 games, the Bills this year have committed 132 penalties for 1,142 yards with two games left to play. How fans can't understand what that does to a QB is beyond me. Considering that Roman is TT's fifth offensive coordinator in five years and that TT learned everything through osmosis riding the pine watching Flacco, I'd say TT has done very well as a first-year starter. Think Baltimore would welcome him back these days? I do.

 

As others have stated, any NFL team's goal should be to improve at every position. In 2016, free agency won't be a viable option at QB, with Sam Bradford leading the free agent class. If there's a promising QB that falls to us in the draft, grab him and let him and TT battle it out in training camp, as others have suggested in this thread. The Bills have very little invested in TT and if he flames out, oh well. What is their cap hit for TT next year -- just over $1 million? Contrary to what others have written in this thread, there is no elite QB in next year's class. Despite this, Lynch will be gone by the time the Bills pick, and Goff, too, with Cleveland, San Francisco and Philly in the market -- and possibly Dallas, San Diego and New Orleans due to aging franchise QBs. One could grab Conor Cook, who is physically gifted but mentally immature and has character issues. I've been reading that NFL scouts don't like him because they say he's "more interested in being a celebrity." Johnny Football II, anyone? No thanks. (He'd be a great fit in Dallas, though). Who's next? Conklin, if he declares? IMO he's a reach in the first round and would be gone by the time the Bills are up in Round 2.

 

With free agency a laughable option and the top QBs likely gone by the time the Bills pick, I think Tyrod's detractors will be very disappointed next year.

Hey man FWIW, this year as of right now Buffalo has the #1 rush offense in the NFL. Look it up! Umm, Taylors season does have extreme similarities to Foles season a couple of years ago. Your rant is kinda meaningless.

 

The Bills should absolutely not stop looking for a QB upgrade. I hope to god they do not feel complacent with TT as QB. If they do they are doomed because the reality of it is TT is not a great QB, he is average, I would hope they want better than average.

[John from Riverside]

Hey man FWIW, this year as of right now Buffalo has the #1 rush offense in the NFL. Look it up! Umm, Taylors season does have extreme similarities to Foles season a couple of years ago. Your rant is kinda meaningless.

 

The Bills should absolutely not stop looking for a QB upgrade. I hope to god they do not feel complacent with TT as QB. If they do they are doomed because the reality of it is TT is not a great QB, he is average, I would hope they want better than average.

How many int's for foles that year?

 

And YOUR rant is meaningless and had been pretty much since your post number 1

[Felonious Monk]

Hey man FWIW, this year as of right now Buffalo has the #1 rush offense in the NFL. Look it up! Umm, Taylors season does have extreme similarities to Foles season a couple of years ago. Your rant is kinda meaningless.

 

The Bills should absolutely not stop looking for a QB upgrade. I hope to god they do not feel complacent with TT as QB. If they do they are doomed because the reality of it is TT is not a great QB, he is average, I would hope they want better than average.

 

So THAT is what you took away from my "rant?" I can see reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. No problem. I don't mind getting in the gutter with trolls.

 

Guess who put the Bills rush offense over the top? That's right -- TT and his 450 rushing yards, genius. Look it up! Umm...

Edited December 26, 2015 by Felonious Monk

[fridge]

 

I don't think that's a fair comparison. Forget Y/A, TD% and QB rating. Let's look past all of Foles' personal stats in 2013. He played behind the best offensive line in the NFL, and it wasn't even close.The Eagles' o-line was #1 in run blocking, which helped Shady (a top-two running back) rack up 2,146 yards from scrimmage. That took a lot of pressure off Foles and opened things up nicely, giving him lots of time back there. Add to that the fact that all five starting offensive linemen started every game that year, including the playoffs -- and all five played together for 5839 of 5945 snaps -- an average of 98.18% -- and Foles' "magical" season suddenly becomes a lot more explainable. Evan Mathis and Jason Peters played at an All-Pro level, and while Jason Kelce wasn't quite there, he was very good. So was Todd Herremans. The Eagles' #4 overall pick that year -- RT Lane Johnson -- was the "weakest link," allowing 10 sacks -- but he was excellent against the run, outplaying the two linemen taken before him in that draft, and being ranked 10th through 12th in the league that year (depending on publication you're referencing) among all OTs. As for system, Philly ran the spread offense under Chip Kelly, which Foles knew well from his days as a Wildcat.

 

In response to the other bolded point, I don't think we all know -- or care to acknowledge -- what happened the following year. Mathis and Kelce missed significant time with injuries, Johnson served a four-game suspension to start the season and key backup Allen Barbre's season ended Week 1. Their replacements were awful. The decimated line also affected Shady, who had only five rushing TDs and didn't catch a single TD pass. The OL started playing well again as the injured guys healed up -- just in time to see Sanchez under center. I have no idea what the Rams were thinking when they traded for Foles. While Rex forced the Bills' defense to learn his scheme this year, the Rams went the other way and devised an offense that catered to Foles -- shotgun heavy. It was completely unfamiliar to the team and was a disaster, leading to the firing of their offensive coordinator mid-season and Foles' benching.

 

I'm not saying Foles is good. He is mediocre at best, and that's being generous. My point is that you or I could have had success behind the Eagles' OL in 2013. The sad reality is that the Bills' OL is nowhere near that caliber. And then there are penalties. While the 2013 Eagles committed 99 accepted penalties for 889 yards through 17 games, the Bills this year have committed 132 penalties for 1,142 yards with two games left to play. How fans can't understand what that does to a QB is beyond me. Considering that Roman is TT's fifth offensive coordinator in five years and that TT learned everything through osmosis riding the pine watching Flacco, I'd say TT has done very well as a first-year starter. Think Baltimore would welcome him back these days? I do.

 

As others have stated, any NFL team's goal should be to improve at every position. In 2016, free agency won't be a viable option at QB, with Sam Bradford leading the free agent class. If there's a promising QB that falls to us in the draft, grab him and let him and TT battle it out in training camp, as others have suggested in this thread. The Bills have very little invested in TT and if he flames out, oh well. What is their cap hit for TT next year -- just over $1 million? Contrary to what others have written in this thread, there is no elite QB in next year's class. Despite this, Lynch will be gone by the time the Bills pick, and Goff, too, with Cleveland, San Francisco and Philly in the market -- and possibly Dallas, San Diego and New Orleans due to aging franchise QBs. One could grab Conor Cook, who is physically gifted but mentally immature and has character issues. I've been reading that NFL scouts don't like him because they say he's "more interested in being a celebrity." Johnny Football II, anyone? No thanks. (He'd be a great fit in Dallas, though). Who's next? Conklin, if he declares? IMO he's a reach in the first round and would be gone by the time the Bills are up in Round 2.

 

With free agency a laughable option and the top QBs likely gone by the time the Bills pick, I think Tyrod's detractors will be very disappointed next year.

 

You could have just posted the bolded, as that was my point - but I'll play along.

 

I appreciate that you took the time to break-down the Eagles' situation in an attempt to decode Foles' downfall. I don't think it's as important as the fact that Foles simply had an outlier season (be it scheme, personnel - the reason is not as important, since most of what people are using to promote Taylor are his stats [the very ones that compare to Foles]). I think your last couple paragraphs are interesting, and I agree that the FA market looks weak. If we bring in a rookie QB to compete with Tyrod, he won't be Lynch or Goff (unless we were to move up in the draft) - so the odds of them beating Tyrod in camp are unlikely.

 

You mentioned Tyrod's contract. We'll see how the team plays their hand, heading into their QB's contract season - but if the Bills front office is thinking like the majoirty of the fanbase, I would expect a nice fat paycheck heading his way. Perhaps it will be easy to get out of, but I just don't think that's what this team needs now. The problem, with being in QB purgatory is that trying harder to cement a player as "your guy" can end up hurting you more in the long run.

[3rdand12]

 

Great season indeed for Tyrod.

 

Is being a Pro Bowl alternate the same as making the Pro Bowl? Or, did I miss something? Is Tyrod in the Pro Bowl to go to Hawaii and actually play?

really?

 

this is the definition of nitpicking, or pickin nits.

 

pb is a voting thing and like presidents its a popularity event.

 

The Kid deserves some respect.

Tyrod's amazing 50 percent of the time. There's still work to do.

fair enough

No I just read idiotic posts about getting rid of a QB that has had one of the best seasons of any QB in the league and was just named a Pro Bowl alternate. Because you geniuses know that there are a million better options out there.

we ginieuses grow on trees too.

fact

 

us truly smart folks let smarter folks then us make these decisions.

I just post my opinions.

 

signed

just a fan

[#34fan]

Cardale + Big Receiver + Pep Hamilton = Playoffs. I can't make it any simpler than that.

[3rdand12]

I'm so sick of fans wanting an elite QB overnight. It doesn't work that way.

yes it does.

do you even watch the games.

Merry Christmas

every one!!

Cardale + Big Receiver + Pep Hamilton = Playoffs. I can't make it any simpler than that.

well that seems pretty simple to me. whats the question.

and change your avatar. i have a pavlovian response every time i see it and start drooling.

[Adam]

Hey man FWIW, this year as of right now Buffalo has the #1 rush offense in the NFL. Look it up! Umm, Taylors season does have extreme similarities to Foles season a couple of years ago. Your rant is kinda meaningless.

 

The Bills should absolutely not stop looking for a QB upgrade. I hope to god they do not feel complacent with TT as QB. If they do they are doomed because the reality of it is TT is not a great QB, he is average, I would hope they want better than average.

I think total offense tells more. Run/Pass ratio can skew the total of either. I think Taylor is above average for a QB in this league, but average to below average for a starter on a winning team. He is very valuable and I wouldn't be uncomfortable if he's the starter next season. I would be uncomfortable if he is the starter by default.

[Felonious Monk]

You mentioned Tyrod's contract. We'll see how the team plays their hand, heading into their QB's contract season - but if the Bills front office is thinking like the majoirty of the fanbase, I would expect a nice fat paycheck heading his way. Perhaps it will be easy to get out of, but I just don't think that's what this team needs now. The problem, with being in QB purgatory is that trying harder to cement a player as "your guy" can end up hurting you more in the long run.

Some really good points here. It's a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. Pay Tyrod and if he busts (like Fitz), you're sitting on heaps of dead money. Don't pay him and watch him (with our luck) go to a team within the division and (with our luck) light it up against us for years. I would love to see what TT can do working with the same OC (be it Roman or whomever) for more than one year. If he regresses next year, I'll be his harshest critic. But I really believe he has the heart and work ethic to go the other way. Ryan L Billz had a good take: "Tyrod's amazing 50 percent of the time." He has shown flashes of awesomeness (among flashes of WTF?), and he can throw the football with touch unlike any QB we've had seen since Flutie. Now it's all about consistency. If he goes from 50% to 65+% next year, I'm confident we'll have our franchise guy. How much is he willing to put into it for that 15%? If the answer is "everything," he controls his own destiny.

 

UNLESS... If the discipline issues aren't resolved and the Bills commit even 80% of the penalties next year that they did this year, no quarterback in the league would go very far, much less one with only a year as a starter. When a 3rd and 4 consistently becomes a 3rd and 14 due to some random hack's lack of focus, lapse in judgment or hot-headedness, it kills drives and makes the QB's life hell -- nevermind the TDs or would-be first-down completions that are called back because of some hold 40 feet from the ball. On defense, a dopey defensive PI penalty that turns a 3rd and 14 into a 1st and goal only leads to more points Tyrod has to overcome. It's a shame these stats don't show up in the box score.

and change your avatar. i have a pavlovian response every time i see it and start drooling.

 

Over/under, percentage-wise, on TBD posters who know who Pavlov was without Googling?

Edited December 26, 2015 by Felonious Monk

[Adam]

Some really good points here. It's a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. Pay Tyrod and if he busts (like Fitz), you're sitting on heaps of dead money. Don't pay him and watch him (with our luck) go to a team within the division and (with our luck) light it up against us for years. I would love to see what TT can do working with the same OC (be it Roman or whomever) for more than one year. If he regresses next year, I'll be his harshest critic. But I really believe he has the heart and work ethic to go the other way. Ryan L Billz had a good take: "Tyrod's amazing 50 percent of the time." He has shown flashes of awesomeness (among flashes of WTF?), and he can throw the football with touch unlike any QB we've had seen since Flutie. Now it's all about consistency. If he goes from 50% to 65+% next year, I'm confident we'll have our franchise guy. How much is he willing to put into it for that 15%? If the answer is "everything," he controls his own destiny.

 

UNLESS... If the discipline issues aren't resolved and the Bills commit even 80% of the penalties next year that they did this year, no quarterback in the league would go very far, much less one with only a year as a starter. When a 3rd and 4 consistently becomes a 3rd and 14 due to some random hack's lack of focus, lapse in judgment or hot-headedness, it kills drives and makes the QB's life hell -- nevermind the TDs or would-be first-down completions that are called back because of some hold 40 feet from the ball. On defense, a dopey defensive PI penalty that turns a 3rd and 14 into a 1st and goal only leads to more points Tyrod has to overcome. It's a shame these stats don't show up in the box score.

 

Over/under, percentage-wise, on TBD posters who know who Pavlov was without Googling?

Pavlov.......that rings a bell!