Shining a light on Shady

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Timing doesnt change that most of your points are opinions that dont seem to be true. Shady can definitely hit the big play, and has done so a few times this year. I see him gain 8-9+yards at a time up the middle among the sweeps that get strung out for 0.

 

We have the #1 rushing offense in the league and McCoy is a large part of that. Basically the main engine of it, really.

 

If the offense is sputtering, he isn't the main problem. Or really a "problem" at all.

 

Even when Tyrod has time, he only looks at one side of the field. And the OL definitely needs work.

 

I know you have a lot of "cred" to lose if McCoy succeeds with all the trash youve talked since the trade, but it's not a good look.

 

That's not really the way it works. When I have been wrong I readily admit it. There are no awards for being right on TSW.

 

The fact that I am usually insightful on the few subjects that I even discuss.... and subsequently right....is fun to bust uptight balls about......but this is really more about opening up discussion so that we as a fanbase can better understand what we are looking at.

 

I come to this board to read that kind of content. Not to keep up on tweets from out of town talking heads or play circle jerk with my fellow 28K post count types.

 

The flack from this take pales in comparison to my "breaking the story" that Fitz couldn't complete a deep ball to save his life and that teams were going to stop defending the whole field and take away all his short passes and stall the running game..........man did I catch flack for that little anti-Fitzmagic nugget......a nugget which became a reality that essentially toppled the Gailey regime, unfortunately.

 

So when I tell you that 4.2 ypc is league average and that McCoy has rushed for 4.3 ypc over the last two seasons..........that isn't an opinion.

 

It's not an opinion that McCoy doesn't break nearly enough long gains for a scatback.......he's had just 6 runs over 20 yards.....2 fewer than Chris Ivory.....a so-so back known mainly for his physical style.

 

For LeSean McCoy to make sense as your RB he needs to put up a ypc of 5 or more.......and he needs to make big plays. The first shortcoming, unfortunately, is because of the latter.

 

You can say it's not age or decline......but the numbers suggest otherwise. He's not making those long distance house calls any longer and without those he's just a scatback who you gotta pull in the redzone. That's not elite, "top 3" stuff. Not even close.

[enlightener]

No doubt on the Gillespie TD shady floats that over to the sidelines for 3 yard gain. But yeah a lot of shuckin and jivin which drives the fans wild

agree and I noticed shady looking alot like cj spiller the last few games. also, even his 100 yard games were lacking the homerun, alot of 15 -20 yard carries, which is nice...but 8 mil $ a year nice? I saw gillislie and williams take em to the house alot of times on precious few carries when shady would have just juked and jived for 15 yards. Plus shady helped us lose in phili, with all his antics pumping up a team that beat us by just 3. And speaking of injury, has shady been durable? wasnt this the knock on Goodwin and Watkins too for a while? what good is a top tier back if hes out half the games? Shady is proving a bit fragile.

Where were you with your hot takes ? Oh yea that's right, you're a troll who only posts when the bills lose or a star Rb takes a hit to the knees.

 

I got my eye on you focker, you're game is weak and transparent.

i made a post BEFORE the season that the shady trade would set this team back for years, just based on the players involved and contract. I waited after shady started the season hurt (from training camp) Now i see him running like spiller, shooting off his mouth, hurt again. Now I can say he hasnt been anymore helpful at winning games than CJ and Fred were. In fact williams and gillislie look more effective and better for our offense than the juking jiving stopped for a loss runner shady is becoming.

 

PS I said it before the season so that counts even when he had his big games...big games that resulted in about 3-4 wins. Maybe not everyones a troll because they dont worship the top starters on a team. Who dont you like Ryan?? anyone? well wecan have our opinions, Still backing SJ by the way? Hes doing real good since leaving.

[3rdand12]

 

That's not really the way it works. When I have been wrong I readily admit it. There are no awards for being right on TSW.

 

The fact that I am usually insightful on the few subjects that I even discuss.... and subsequently right....is fun to bust uptight balls about......but this is really more about opening up discussion so that we as a fanbase can better understand what we are looking at.

 

I come to this board to read that kind of content. Not to keep up on tweets from out of town talking heads or play circle jerk with my fellow 28K post count types.

 

The flack from this take pales in comparison to my "breaking the story" that Fitz couldn't complete a deep ball to save his life and that teams were going to stop defending the whole field and take away all his short passes and stall the running game..........man did I catch flack for that little anti-Fitzmagic nugget......a nugget which became a reality that essentially toppled the Gailey regime, unfortunately.

 

So when I tell you that 4.2 ypc is league average and that McCoy has rushed for 4.3 ypc over the last two seasons..........that isn't an opinion.

 

It's not an opinion that McCoy doesn't break nearly enough long gains for a scatback.......he's had just 6 runs over 20 yards.....2 fewer than Chris Ivory.....a so-so back known mainly for his physical style.

 

For LeSean McCoy to make sense as your RB he needs to put up a ypc of 5 or more.......and he needs to make big plays. The first shortcoming, unfortunately, is because of the latter.

 

You can say it's not age or decline......but the numbers suggest otherwise. He's not making those long distance house calls any longer and without those he's just a scatback who you gotta pull in the redzone. That's not elite, "top 3" stuff. Not even close.

my only concern with opinions about McCoy On the field, is this. can we take his play in context?

 

Without even trying to take a side.

Wasn't he injured at the start of the season? did the Bills set him down because of that?

Is the Offense new enough to affect the other 10 players that play the snap.

I mean the O line was garbage and we did not have a passing game yet.

 

In my opinion Badol you could be over analyzing to make a point.

we can nit pick this team all day long and then some.

like Tyrod. McCoy is not why the team cant get it together as a whole.

and i dont understand your malevolence toward him considering you are very observant and knowledgeable.

a pairing of a healthy Karlos and McCoy seems to me to be one heck of a run threat?

[Big74Mac]

 

Why can't Karlos be the answer? I'd like to see a lot more of him.

Because he is as fragile as a Christmas ornament. Until he can stay healthy we have nothing there.

[BADOLBILZ]

my only concern with opinions about McCoy On the field, is this. can we take his play in context?

 

Without even trying to take a side.

Wasn't he injured at the start of the season? did the Bills set him down because of that?

Is the Offense new enough to affect the other 10 players that play the snap.

I mean the O line was garbage and we did not have a passing game yet.

 

In my opinion Badol you could be over analyzing to make a point.

we can nit pick this team all day long and then some.

like Tyrod. McCoy is not why the team cant get it together as a whole.

and i dont understand your malevolence toward him considering you are very observant and knowledgeable.

a pairing of a healthy Karlos and McCoy seems to me to be one heck of a run threat?

 

With respect to the fact that you have been known to jump into a discussion without reading the prior posts:

 

Injuries were at the top of his excuse list in 2014 as well.

 

I think the newness of the offense was a benefit early on......but as the season played out and tape was accumulated we saw the results of recent weeks where McCoy was marginalized.

 

If you want to call pointing out just how close to average the $26M McCoy is *nitpicking* I think you are understating the situation.

 

I'm not blaming McCoy for the failure of the team and I have no idea why some of you insist that I am.........the defense was CLEARLY the issue in 2015, but how many threads do we need about Rex and his D? Did I not make my opinion clear on that in September? That's been fleshed out relentlessly for the past 3 months.

 

This is more about a positional analysis........the Bills are out of touch with how the running game is being used to soften pass defenses in the NFL. They are stuck with a very expensive bad fit for their offense. I've explained that in detail in this thread.

[3rdand12]

 

With respect to the fact that you have been known to jump into a discussion without reading the prior posts:

 

Injuries were at the top of his excuse list in 2014 as well.

 

I think the newness of the offense was a benefit early on......but as the season played out and tape was accumulated we saw the results of recent weeks where McCoy was marginalized.

 

If you want to call pointing out just how close to average the $26M McCoy is *nitpicking* I think you are understating the situation.

 

I'm not blaming McCoy for the failure of the team and I have no idea why some of you insist that I am.........the defense was CLEARLY the issue in 2015, but how many threads do we need about Rex and his D? Did I not make my opinion clear on that in September? That's been fleshed out relentlessly for the past 3 months.

 

This is more about a positional analysis........the Bills are out of touch with how the running game is being used to soften pass defenses in the NFL. They are stuck with a very expensive bad fit for their offense. I've explained that in detail in this thread.

actually i read them all before i do.I have read all your posts

before i make an attempt to just " jump" in.

and i try not to be critical.

i am just saying what i have to say about all the meanderings. which they are.

 

you dont like McCoy.

I do.

Geez i even tried to be nice about it.

 

Edited December 22, 2015 by 3rdand12

[34-78-83]

 

Timing doesnt change that most of your points are opinions that dont seem to be true. Shady can definitely hit the big play, and has done so a few times this year. I see him gain 8-9+yards at a time up the middle among the sweeps that get strung out for 0.

 

We have the #1 rushing offense in the league and McCoy is a large part of that. Basically the main engine of it, really.

 

If the offense is sputtering, he isn't the main problem. Or really a "problem" at all.

 

Even when Tyrod has time, he only looks at one side of the field. And the OL definitely needs work.

 

I know you have a lot of "cred" to lose if McCoy succeeds with all the trash youve talked since the trade, but it's not a good look.

Yes all this above. Not worried about the cred part of it. Thanks for the effort. Edited December 22, 2015 by 34-78-83

[3rdand12]

I think you are correct about the facsimile of a ground and pound game being lauded about. and if that was true , he would be a bad esque fit.

 

When the season started and we had Harvin, i think it was all about playmakers. guys that could move the ball. YAC etc.

 

i dont feel the disconnect you do with Lesean on the team.

 

: )

[BADOLBILZ]

actually i read them all before i do.I have read all your posts

before i make an attempt to just " jump" in.

and i try not to be critical.

i am just saying what i have to say about all the meanderings. which they are.

 

you dont like McCoy.

I do.

Geez i even tried to be nice about it.

 

 

You've entered discussions I'm in before and said that you hadn't followed the whole thing.

 

Nothing personal but people keep asking me to retread over areas we've already covered in this thread so I'm trying to keep the repeated points short and succinct.

 

Running into denial in the face of facts is the risk you run when you discuss a polarizing figure like Shady......if Shady ran for 3ypc this year there would be a few celebrity player worshippers on this board who blamed it on injuries or bad coaching or whatever.

 

In the end.....he owns his stats and that's all we can go by.

 

As for my personal feelings about McCoy.....he is a d-bag of the highest order.......but I couldn't care less about that.

 

I had to avert my eyes when I saw him going in for a smooch of the dirt eagle before the Philly game.......but his douchebaggery doesn't matter to me, it's his production.

 

My favorite Bill of all-time was Bruce Smith and he may have been an even bigger A-hole (btw, I like how they neglected to mention the racial stir he created prior to SB XXVI in the "Four Falls of Buffalo"....talk about a spin job....that was a complete firestorm in the media that really shook that team and he played like sh*t that day).

 

Shady's persona has nothing to do with my take.

 

It could come into play when he stops getting the ball next season......but the concern there would just be him forcing his release by bad behavior with a lot of dead money on the books......not the impact of a disgruntled back-up RB during the season.

[HamSandwhich]

This is ludicrous. Seems the OP has a vendetta against McCoy. He was awesome when he was playing, what's the beef?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

As many of you know, I've been a vocal detractor of the LeSean McCoy acquisition.

 

I made my points this summer and early in the season and all I could do was let the season play out.

 

Though I wish I was wrong, I was not.

 

I am wondering if the picture is coming into focus for some of you.

 

LeSean is nowhere near being a superstar. Not close.

 

He is a nice back. He is VERY entertaining but he is barely above average in terms of production.

 

For all his shiftiness......he doesn't make big plays.......he's a singles hitter.........and combine that with his frequent net-zero runs and inability to be physical in short yardage and you understand why a guy with such fancy feet lead the NFL in FEWEST yards per play in 2014.

 

I know there are many people still in denial.....like I said, he is entertaining......but it is not just a coincidence that less than great backs like Karlos and Gilliislee come in and regularly make big runs while Shady has one big play(48 yarder in home game versus Miami) to show for 200 plus carries.

 

We all know this is NOT a great OL. But the plays are there.......other backs are making them.

 

The OTHER backs are also more physical.

 

If you are going to run for 4.2-4.4 ypc like Shady has 3 of the past 4 seasons......then one would hope that a physical toll is being exacted on the defense.

 

With Shady there is NONE of that.

 

McCoy was a bad scheme fit for this offense.

 

There is no inside game with him in there and we saw the past two weeks that opponents familiar with McCoy knew this and rendered him relatively ineffective.

 

I am not saying that Karlos or Gillislee are the answers......but IMO, two years of average production from McCoy prove to me that he is NOT.

 

And now, the Bills are on the hook for $20M+ in guaranteed money for him going forward.

 

 

 

 

5th most productive rb in the NFL form scrimmage. If you only keep 10 guys from the whole roster he is one.

[3rdand12]

 

You've entered discussions I'm in before and said that you hadn't followed the whole thing.

 

Nothing personal but people keep asking me to retread over areas we've already covered in this thread so I'm trying to keep the repeated points short and succinct.

 

Running into denial in the face of facts is the risk you run when you discuss a polarizing figure like Shady......if Shady ran for 3ypc this year there would be a few celebrity player worshippers on this board who blamed it on injuries or bad coaching or whatever.

 

In the end.....he owns his stats and that's all we can go by.

 

As for my personal feelings about McCoy.....he is a d-bag of the highest order.......but I couldn't care less about that.

 

I had to avert my eyes when I saw him going in for a smooch of the dirt eagle before the Philly game.......but his douchebaggery doesn't matter to me, it's his production.

 

My favorite Bill of all-time was Bruce Smith and he may have been an even bigger A-hole (btw, I like how they neglected to mention the racial stir he created prior to SB XXVI in the "Four Falls of Buffalo"....talk about a spin job....that was a complete firestorm in the media that really shook that team and he played like sh*t that day).

 

Shady's persona has nothing to do with my take.

 

It could come into play when he stops getting the ball next season......but the concern there would just be him forcing his release by bad behavior with a lot of dead money on the books......not the impact of a disgruntled back-up RB during the season.

My only rebuttal is

He has picked up the blitz very very well and gave it his all. ala Fred.

thats when i began to change my opinion.

all I care about is what he leaves on the field. Roman may well have a different opinion or maybe the same. I don't know.

I like Karlos alot and will say again. these two would be one hell of a tandem if they would just stay healthy

Edited December 22, 2015 by 3rdand12

[BADOLBILZ]

5th most productive rb in the NFL form scrimmage. If you only keep 10 guys from the whole roster he is one.

 

 

In 2014 he had the WORST yards per touch in the NFL but I am told he was a top 3 RB in the NFL.

[dave mcbride]

In 2014 he had the WORST yards per touch in the NFL but I am told he was a top 3 RB in the NFL.

 

He had bad numbers in the first quarter of 2014 because half of the Eagles line was out. When the line got healthy, so did his numbers. He had 69 carries for 192 yards in the first four games; in the final 11, after the line got healthy, he was his old self, averaging 4.8 ypc the rest of the way.

[BADOLBILZ]

He had bad numbers in the first quarter of 2014 because half of the Eagles line was out. When the line got healthy, so did his numbers. He had 69 carries for 192 yards in the first four games; in the final 11, after the line got healthy, he was his old self, averaging 4.8 ypc the rest of the way.

 

He had like 4 really good games this year too. "Fresh legs" they called it.

 

The bottom line is that 3 of the past 4 years he has averaged 4.2, 4.2 and 4.4.

 

That's a pretty fair sample size.

 

2013 was the outlier. Kelly's offense was new and stunned the NFL and McCoy was additionally fueled by a feud with AD.

 

All that aside, the lack of scores/inability to use in the redzone is a problem going forward.

[GG]

 

He had like 4 really good games this year too. "Fresh legs" they called it.

 

The bottom line is that 3 of the past 4 years he has averaged 4.2, 4.2 and 4.4.

 

That's a pretty fair sample size.

 

2013 was the outlier. Kelly's offense was new and stunned the NFL and McCoy was additionally fueled by a feud with AD.

 

All that aside, the lack of scores/inability to use in the redzone is a problem going forward.

 

And you keep changing the argument. First you said that he was in decline. When stats show that his rush yards per attempt went up this year, you revert to say that 4.4 is no great feat, even though it's roughly in line with Adrian Peterson.

 

His numbers this year are on par with his career averages and certainly don't show him hitting some mythical wall at 27 that you claimed he would hit.

 

He's still a premier back and he's 5th in yards from scrimmage, which was always his game. He is not the guy who is going to carry the ball 25-30 game because he's never done that. But he is going to run 15-20 and catch 5, and consistently deliver 100 total yards, which very few players do.

 

So keep banging your soap box that the trade was stupid, even though Shady directly contributed to a few precious wins this year. Would Kiko have? Would Spiller have, since that was the original plan before Chip called?

[Agent 91]

So those games where Shady was out and the run game didn't exist?

 

I mean Karlos Williams 18 rushes for 40 yards sure was good against the Giants. Or was it Boom Herron and company against the Titans that really drove home your point.

 

Good post. Give yourself another pat on the back.

So i want the only one who saw this?

Shady is great!! He is surely not the problem.

 

 

 

Imo

Leroi, this is a crusade thread. Pushing an agenda. Lesean is the most vital piece to the offense. I dont even want to see the O without him. Probably will on sunday though

[truth on hold]

Same offense, different backs Karlos Williams 6.0 average, LeSean McCoy 4.4. Heck even Dizzy Gillespie outshine McCoy on Sunday. North-South guys with power and speed is what we need. Not the costly shake and bake

 

LeSean McCoy 28 signed a 5 year, $40,000,000 contract with the Buffalo Bills, including a $13,125,000 signing bonus, $26,500,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $8,000,000. In 2015, McCoy will earn a base salary of $2,625,000, a signing bonus of $13,125,000 and a workout bonus of $250,000.

Karlos Williams RB 22 4 yr $623,838 average

Edited December 22, 2015 by JTSP

[Agent 91]

 

I know what you are saying.......you want an excuse not to discuss it.

 

I've been more than fair letting the season play out.

 

It's not like he hasn't been unproductive 2 of the prior 3 games as well.

 

I told Greggy back in the summer that he would end up producing near a league average level.........and thru 14 games he has produced at a 4.4ypc clip.....hasn't scored TD's and hasn't made big plays.

 

The killer for me is that big plays are there and he just can't make them.

 

Re-watch the Philly game and listen to Wilcots talk about how Shady needs to stick his foot in the ground and cut it up........and then Gilislee comes in and does it and takes a long TD run to the post.

 

Everything with Shady gravitates to the sideline.

 

Often it's resulted in him negotiating for 6-10 yard gains, which look nice and fans are impressed..........but it's hard to score TD's when you are trying to get out of bounds.

 

Take a closer look.

This is all laughable. Shady is the defensive game plan. Stop it. How do you run when your QB put up 26 yards in the first HALF!!! How did Karlos look when shady was out. What did gilislee look like when he started that.... wait. What about when he carried 20+... wait. Why did i even reply. You state no fact. It's all conjecture. Edited December 22, 2015 by Agent 91

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Same offense, different backs Karlos Williams 6.0 average, LeSean McCoy 4.4. Heck even Dizzy Gillespie outshine McCoy on Sunday. North-South guys with power and speed is what we need. Not the costly shake and bake

 

LeSean McCoy 28 signed a 5 year, $40,000,000 contract with the Buffalo Bills, including a $13,125,000 signing bonus, $26,500,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $8,000,000. In 2015, McCoy will earn a base salary of $2,625,000, a signing bonus of $13,125,000 and a workout bonus of $250,000.

Karlos Williams RB 22 4 yr $623,838 average

 

 

You simply cannot count on Karlos as anything more than a complementary RB at this point in his career. He's had three injuries in limited duty with his camp "procedure" and in-season concussion/shoulder injuries. Beyond that, he takes too many steps in his cuts and still has work to do as a pass protector. Shady has proven himself to be a multi-dimensional threat that any offense would be happy to have.

This is all laughable. Shady is the defensive game plan. Stop it. How do you run when your QB put up 26 yards in the first HALF!!! How did Karlos look when shady was out. What did gilislee look like when he started that.... wait. What about when he carried 20+... wait. Why did i even reply. You state no fact. It's all conjecture.

 

Consider the source.