Rex/Tyrod Hypothetical

[Mikie2times]

Would you trade the combination of Roman as HC and Schwartz as DC, for the combination of Rex as HC, Roman as OC, and Tyrod as QB? The scenario I'm proposing is Tyrod never coming to Buffalo if Rex doesn't.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I think I would have liked to see the Schwarz/Roman outcome for two reasons now in retrospect... ..

 

Right or wrong, lve reached a conclusion about the current regime, the same one the jets did last year and I believe the same one the Pegulas will reach at some point in the far too distant future....

 

And I don't think it is an absolute that no Rex = no Tyrod. He was one of a few free agent QBs looking for a starting opportunity and may have crossed paths with the Bills anyway.

[John from Riverside]

It is a interesting question

 

People (all of us) lamented prior to this year that we had NO quarterback......didnt know how we were gonna get one.....etc etc

 

Now we have one

 

People like to critiq the F out of him and that is fine...the fact is Tyrod Taylor is the best QB the bills have had since Drew Bledsoe........we actuallh HAVE a QB now.

 

Is he a franchise guy? Only time is going to tell us that.....but we do have someone that can make plays from the QB position. We now need to figure out WTF happened to our D

[JohnC]

It is a interesting question

 

People (all of us) lamented prior to this year that we had NO quarterback......didnt know how we were gonna get one.....etc etc

 

Now we have one

 

People like to critiq the F out of him and that is fine...the fact is Tyrod Taylor is the best QB the bills have had since Drew Bledsoe........we actuallh HAVE a QB now.

 

Is he a franchise guy? Only time is going to tell us that.....but we do have someone that can make plays from the QB position. We now need to figure out WTF happened to our D

What the loud HC did with the roster he inherited on defense is not too difficult to figure out. It's like a marathon runner who excels at long distance contests. Rex would enter him in a sprint race. It's like having a sprint runner who excels in short races. Rex would enter him in a Marathon. There are good baseball hitters who are suited to bat at the top of the order. Rex would probably have that light hitting contact hitter batting fourth. There are power runners who productively run straight-line and inside the tackle. Rex would use that type of back for sweeps and scat back assignments. In warfare it would be suitable to use tanks in open desert field battles. Rex would use tanks in a guerrilla war fought in a dense jungle. Rex is the type of person who if he had Donald Trump as an employee he would assign him to negotiate a settlement in a complicated Mideast multi-country war. If Donald Trump asked Rex to set him up for a blind date. Rex would give him Rosie O'Donnel's number and be confident that it was a good match.

 

For Rex it is not about the fit. When you have a scheme you are married to the scheme, no matter what. As Forest Gump has smartly stated: Stupid is as stupid does!

[Vinaccia]

I think I would have liked to see the Schwarz/Roman outcome for two reasons now in retrospect... ..

 

Right or wrong, lve reached a conclusion about the current regime, the same one the jets did last year and I believe the same one the Pegulas will reach at some point in the far too distant future....

 

And I don't think it is an absolute that no Rex = no Tyrod. He was one of a few free agent QBs looking for a starting opportunity and may have crossed paths with the Bills anyway.

If there was no Rex there was no Tyrod period. Tyrod knew Rex had been pursuing him for years. The GM wasn't interested and still is largely skeptical of Tyrod. (Being skeptical I agree with at this point especially considering the contract situation.) However give credit where credit was due.

[Luxy312]

Intelligent thought out thread, unlike the Franchise QB Fairy's. Honestly, I think that as long as Roman is the OC that Tyrod would be here. I know that Tyrod is Rex's guy, but at this point Roman knows what he has in a potential franchise signal caller. Tyrod has things to work on of course, but tell me that his starts look as up and down as EJ's when he was in this position. They don't.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

What the loud HC did with the roster he inherited on defense is not too difficult to figure out. It's like a marathon runner who excels at long distance contests. Rex would enter him in a sprint race. It's like having a sprint runner who excels in short races. Rex would enter him in a Marathon. There are good baseball hitters who are suited to bat at the top of the order. Rex would probably have that light hitting contact hitter batting fourth. There are power runners who productively run straight-line and inside the tackle. Rex would use that type of back for sweeps and scat back assignments. In warfare it would be suitable to use tanks in open desert field battles. Rex would use tanks in a guerrilla war fought in a dense jungle. Rex is the type of person who if he had Donald Trump as an employee he would assign him to negotiate a settlement in a complicated Mideast multi-country war. If Donald Trump asked Rex to set him up for a blind date. Rex would give him Rosie O'Donnel's number and be confident that it was a good match.

 

For Rex it is not about the fit. When you have a scheme you are married to the scheme, no matter what. As Forest Gump has smartly stated: Stupid is as stupid does!

 

Were we going to win a super bowl THIS year?? probably not... Were we then going to have to walk away from mario KW, and probably bradham? Probably... So the rebuilt defense was essentially planned before we hired rex. We were already going to have to draft heavily for defense this year.

[JohnC]

 

Were we going to win a super bowl THIS year?? probably not... Were we then going to have to walk away from mario KW, and probably bradham? Probably... So the rebuilt defense was essentially planned before we hired rex. We were already going to have to draft heavily for defense this year.

I have no problem with rebuilding the defense. That isn't the issue. This year he had a set of players on defense to work with and didn't put them in a position to accentuate their assets. Instead, he put the players he had in a position to fail. That isn't smart coaching.

 

I agree that Mario and KW will both be gone next year because of cap reasons and scheme fit reasons. However, I still strongly believe that this team as it was constituted this year should be in the playoffs. Compared to its talent level this team underachieved. That is very much attributed to a coaching failure.

 

Barely making the playoffs is not a be all and an end all. But it is something to build on, especially for a team that has not participated in the post season for a generation. When you have an opportunity to accomplish that minimal achievement I would have preferred that this loud coach acted more smartly and seized the opportunity. He didn't. That is disappointing and infuriating.

[machine gun kelly]

Since we are talking hypotheticals and have no basis in reality, can't i have my cake and eat it too with Roman, Schwartz, and TT? I'd like that one.

 

Just sayin. Roman's caught a lot of crap on this board, but i like him. He's not perfect, but does everyone want to look into the past and remember Hacket. Uggh.

[snafu]

I have no problem with rebuilding the defense. That isn't the issue. This year he had a set of players on defense to work with and didn't put them in a position to accentuate their assets. Instead, he put the players he had in a position to fail. That isn't smart coaching.

 

I agree that Mario and KW will both be gone next year because of cap reasons and scheme fit reasons. However, I still strongly believe that this team as it was constituted this year should be in the playoffs. Compared to its talent level this team underachieved. That is very much attributed to a coaching failure.

 

Barely making the playoffs is not a be all and an end all. But it is something to build on, especially for a team that has not participated in the post season for a generation. When you have an opportunity to accomplish that minimal achievement I would have preferred that this loud coach acted more smartly and seized the opportunity. He didn't. That is disappointing and infuriating.

 

Since you raised the point that a lot of people make around here (and your posts are usually pretty well articulated) my questions are pointed to you, but they are not limited to you.

 

Did you expect Rex to abandon his scheme? That simply wasn't going to happen. No coach the Bills have brought in has ever said "I've been doing things one way for years, but I think I will change it up this year".

 

Or did you expect Rex to make the players that were already here do different things? This is what historically happens. It rapidly becomes the same problem nearly every time coaches are changed. Maybe the exception is when the protégé takes over for the retiring coach.

 

Perhaps it is a coaching failure on Rex's part, but shouldn't most of the blame lay at the feet of the people who hired a guy who was most certainly going to drastically alter a very good defense?

[Reks Ryan]

I have no problem with rebuilding the defense. That isn't the issue. This year he had a set of players on defense to work with and didn't put them in a position to accentuate their assets. Instead, he put the players he had in a position to fail. That isn't smart coaching.

 

I agree that Mario and KW will both be gone next year because of cap reasons and scheme fit reasons. However, I still strongly believe that this team as it was constituted this year should be in the playoffs. Compared to its talent level this team underachieved. That is very much attributed to a coaching failure.

 

Barely making the playoffs is not a be all and an end all. But it is something to build on, especially for a team that has not participated in the post season for a generation. When you have an opportunity to accomplish that minimal achievement I would have preferred that this loud coach acted more smartly and seized the opportunity. He didn't. That is disappointing and infuriating.

 

Well said. Disappointing, Infuriating, and frustrating that D game plan still did not adapt as the season went on.

[Beerball]

Were we going to win a super bowl THIS year?? probably not... Were we then going to have to walk away from mario KW, and probably bradham? Probably... So the rebuilt defense was essentially planned before we hired rex. We were already going to have to draft heavily for defense this year.

 

nice spin

Since you raised the point that a lot of people make around here (and your posts are usually pretty well articulated) my questions are pointed to you, but they are not limited to you.

 

Did you expect Rex to abandon his scheme? That simply wasn't going to happen. No coach the Bills have brought in has ever said "I've been doing things one way for years, but I think I will change it up this year".

 

Or did you expect Rex to make the players that were already here do different things? This is what historically happens. It rapidly becomes the same problem nearly every time coaches are changed. Maybe the exception is when the protégé takes over for the retiring coach.

 

Perhaps it is a coaching failure on Rex's part, but shouldn't most of the blame lay at the feet of the people who hired a guy who was most certainly going to drastically alter a very good defense?

Prior to coaching a preseason snap Rex did say that he'd adjust his defense some to fit what the 2014 Bills did best. Telling the people what they wanted to hear I guess.

 

To your last point...ultimate responsibility lies at the foot of the throne. (But to be fair you cannot expect an owner to understand the game in that much detail. Not disparaging, but this might be where that consultant would have come in handy.)

[WotAGuy]

To your last point...ultimate responsibility lies at the foot of the throne.

 

Appropriate, since this season went down the crapper a while ago!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

Since you raised the point that a lot of people make around here (and your posts are usually pretty well articulated) my questions are pointed to you, but they are not limited to you.

 

Did you expect Rex to abandon his scheme? That simply wasn't going to happen. No coach the Bills have brought in has ever said "I've been doing things one way for years, but I think I will change it up this year".

 

Or did you expect Rex to make the players that were already here do different things? This is what historically happens. It rapidly becomes the same problem nearly every time coaches are changed. Maybe the exception is when the protégé takes over for the retiring coach.

 

Perhaps it is a coaching failure on Rex's part, but shouldn't most of the blame lay at the feet of the people who hired a guy who was most certainly going to drastically alter a very good defense?

there are really two better choices over the path taken.

 

Choice 1) realize the talent scheme fit and mismatch to the new scheme enough to understand the transition to a new scheme will need to be gradual along with personnel

 

Choice 2) realize the talent scheme fit and mismatch to the new scheme enough to drive an immediate reboot of the roster at compromised positions.

 

Path taken was either not notice or pretend there wasn't a scheme talent mismatch and motor on, asking 5 out of the front 7 guys to do something they aren't best at in a NFL setting.

Edited December 19, 2015 by over 20 years of fanhood

[JohnC]

 

 

 

Since you raised the point that a lot of people make around here (and your posts are usually pretty well articulated) my questions are pointed to you, but they are not limited to you.

 

Did you expect Rex to abandon his scheme? That simply wasn't going to happen. No coach the Bills have brought in has ever said "I've been doing things one way for years, but I think I will change it up this year".

 

I can guarantee it that Rex in his interview with the owners and the GM didn't tell them that he was going to take their top tier defense and alter the style of play that would accentuate the players's weaknesses and and diminish their strengths. Without a doubt he expounded on how he knew defenses and that he would make this very good defense even better.

 

The Pegulas were not equipped to discuss football topics related to schemes and philosophy. Rex is very glib and has an expansive personality. As an employee candidate he was much more appealing to work with than the dour former HC who to put it mildly lacked interpersonal skills. I understand why the Pegulas found him appealing. But acing an interview is acing an interview. He had a six year record in NY that was not stellar. He left the Jets in shambles. The Pegulas did not properly do their "due diligence" with this respective hire.

 

 

 

Or did you expect Rex to make the players that were already here do different things? This is what historically happens. It rapidly becomes the same problem nearly every time coaches are changed. Maybe the exception is when the protégé takes over for the retiring coach.

 

To be blunt I had little regard for Rex when he was with the Jets and was very troubled when he was hired for the job in western NY. I consider him to be a self-promoting huckster who lacks the intelligence and flexibility to smartly adjust in a job that requires adjustment to changing circumstances. Words that have never been associated with Rex are discipline and smart.

 

I did not expect Rex to take the players he inherited and apply schemes that took them out of their comfort zone to the extent that he did. He made players such as Dareus, Mario and collectively the LBs conform to his comfort zone by taking them out of their comfort zone. You need to recall that Dareus was such an interior force last year that he earned him a gilded contract. In Rex's scheme he was a shell of himself. Mario was a pass rushing force that opposing teams had to account for. His presence on the field positively impacted his line mates because he received so much attention. This season on the field he was invisible.

 

Let's remember that Rex was present with the team when they participated in last year's draft and free agency period. The staffing on the defensive side of the ball barely changed. The first pick was used for Darby, a CB. The defensive lineup stayed the same. If he was so determined to change the scheme then there should have been more personnel changes on the defense to accommodate his scheme. I'm not talking about brilliant football minds here. I'm talking about the lack of common sense. A dumb person tried to outsmart others. That is a recipe for failure. The outcome was predictable.

 

 

 

Perhaps it is a coaching failure on Rex's part, but shouldn't most of the blame lay at the feet of the people who hired a guy who was most certainly going to drastically alter a very good defense?

 

The Pegulas are mostly to blame for hiring this huckster. If you asked the Pegulas if it would have been smart to hire someone who would take an asset (the defense) and make it a turd they would have said no. They certainly expected that this glib talking and jovial personality to use a little more common sense. Ultimately they made the hire and they got what they deserved. Rex is Rex. And that is exactly what they got.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

nice spin

Prior to coaching a preseason snap Rex did say that he'd adjust his defense some to fit what the 2014 Bills did best.

 

And the egomaniac pinpointed that as a reason for underperforming, which was another pile of BS.

[snafu]

 

 

Since you raised the point that a lot of people make around here (and your posts are usually pretty well articulated) my questions are pointed to you, but they are not limited to you.

 

Did you expect Rex to abandon his scheme? That simply wasn't going to happen. No coach the Bills have brought in has ever said "I've been doing things one way for years, but I think I will change it up this year".

 

I can guarantee it that Rex in his interview with the owners and the GM didn't tell them that he was going to take their top tier defense and alter the style of play that would accentuate the players's weaknesses and and diminish their strengths. Without a doubt he expounded on how he knew defenses and that he would make this very good defense even better.

 

The Pegulas were not equipped to discuss football topics related to schemes and philosophy. Rex is very glib and has an expansive personality. As an employee candidate he was much more appealing to work with than the dour former HC who to put it mildly lacked interpersonal skills. I understand why the Pegulas found him appealing. But acing an interview is acing an interview. He had a six year record in NY that was not stellar. He left the Jets in shambles. The Pegulas did not properly do their "due diligence" with this respective hire.

 

Or did you expect Rex to make the players that were already here do different things? This is what historically happens. It rapidly becomes the same problem nearly every time coaches are changed. Maybe the exception is when the protégé takes over for the retiring coach.

 

To be blunt I had little regard for Rex when he was with the Jets and was very troubled when he was hired for the job in western NY. I consider him to be a self-promoting huckster who lacks the intelligence and flexibility to smartly adjust in a job that requires adjustment to changing circumstances. Words that have never been associated with Rex are discipline and smart.

 

I did not expect Rex to take the players he inherited and apply schemes that took them out of their comfort zone to the extent that he did. He made players such as Dareus, Mario and collectively the LBs conform to his comfort zone by taking them out of their comfort zone. You need to recall that Dareus was such an interior force last year that he earned him a gilded contract. In Rex's scheme he was a shell of himself. Mario was a pass rushing force that opposing teams had to account for. His presence on the field positively impacted his line mates because he received so much attention. This season on the field he was invisible.

 

Let's remember that Rex was present with the team when they participated in last year's draft and free agency period. The staffing on the defensive side of the ball barely changed. The first pick was used for Darby, a CB. The defensive lineup stayed the same. If he was so determined to change the scheme then there should have been more personnel changes on the defense to accommodate his scheme. I'm not talking about brilliant football minds here. I'm talking about the lack of common sense. A dumb person tried to outsmart others. That is a recipe for failure. The outcome was predictable.

 

Perhaps it is a coaching failure on Rex's part, but shouldn't most of the blame lay at the feet of the people who hired a guy who was most certainly going to drastically alter a very good defense?

The Pegulas are mostly to blame for hiring this huckster. If you asked the Pegulas if it would have been smart to hire someone who would take an asset (the defense) and make it a turd they would have said no. They certainly expected that this glib talking and jovial personality to use a little more common sense. Ultimately they made the hire and they got what they deserved. Rex is Rex. And that is exactly what they got.

I'm obviously speculating on this: the Pegulas seemed to have ignored football sense in favor of making an immediate big decision splash. Probably helped along by the marketing mind of Russ Brandon. Look what it did for season ticket sales. Usually a coaching change happens because a team wants to "move in a different direction". But that too often gets confused with bad fits between scheme and personnel when there are better coaching fits to be readily found.

 

My gut reaction was to hate the hire, too.

 

When you talk about Dareus and Mario, I can start the excuses to mitigate the Rex hate, too. Marcel plays much better with Kyle next to him and vice versa. Mario can be a bit of a diva and if he doesn't like his role he can be pouty. There's also the fact that the linebackers can't keep up. I wonder what things would have looked like if Schwartz stayed and Spikes left and these same linebackers had to play in that system. Maybe not such a good result.

 

I'm not trying to defend Rex at all. It is just starting to get monotonous with a lot of the same perspective. Everyone around here is so pissed off that they're losing the handle on all of the reasons for the regression.

Edited December 19, 2015 by snafu

[JohnC]

I'm not trying to defend Rex at all. It is just starting to get monotonous with a lot of the same perspective. Everyone around here is so pissed off that they're losing the handle on all of the reasons for the regression.

The reason why most people have the same perspective is that it is freaking obvious what this fool did to sabotage this season. Determining what the primary reason for this regression is not much of a mystery. There was a good opportunity to be seized here this season. Each season in the NFL is a separate challenge. There are no guarantees. When you are in a good position to take advantage of a situation and you squander it due to incompetence it is understandable why many people are irritated.

[snafu]

The reason why most people have the same perspective is that it is freaking obvious what this fool did to sabotage this season. Determining what the primary reason for this regression is not much of a mystery. There was a good opportunity to be seized here this season. Each season in the NFL is a separate challenge. There are no guarantees. When you are in a good position to take advantage of a situation and you squander it due to incompetence it is understandable why many people are irritated.

 

I'll disagree a bit on Rex being the sole reason. To me there's a lot more to it than his shoving a square peg up everyone's round hole.

[Charles Romes]

The question boils down to what are the max wins with the '14 D and Cassell/EJ at QB. 5 or 6 wins.